Value of Ford Field

[brooks1957]

Good morning Lions fans -

This is my first visit to your forums from the Dawg Pound. First off, congratulations on a wonderful 2023 campaign. I know it always sucks when your season ends short of the ultimate goal. But there was a lot to like about the growth of your franchise last year. Dan Campbell is proving he was the right hire at the right time for the Lions franchise.

The point of my visit is to take your temperature about how beneficial Ford Field has been to the Lions and the City of Detroit. The impetus for me wanting to know is the Browns lease with the City of Cleveland expires after the 2028 season. The discussion is currently ongoing about what to do for the 2029 season and beyond.

There are three major options being considered.

A. - Update Cleveland Browns Stadium with newer amenities, but have it remain an open air stadium. This is the least costly option, but the result is less than desirable.

B. - Demolish Cleveland Browns Stadium, build a "land bridge" over the Shoreway that will connect downtown to the waterfront. Rebuild Browns Stadium on the same site as a domed facility.

C. - Move the team 10 minutes out of downtown to Brook Park adjacent to Hopkins Airport. They current have an option to buy a 176 acre plot of land there to primarily build a domed facility there, but also develop an entire retail/entertainment complex. This is also the most hotly debated issue and the most costly. But I think it provides the best value.

 

Whatever the Browns do - I cannot justify, in my mind, committing the dollars and resources necessary to build an open air facility. In this regional climate, you are then limiting the potential use of that facility by AT LEAST 40% of the year if not greater.

Plus the thought of watching my Browns at home in a playoff while dodging the possibility of frostbitten fingers no longer has the same romantic appeal that it once did.

So, I would like to hear from you Lions fans. What have been the pros and cons in your minds of playing in a domed facility downtown? Do you still long for outdoor football?

Thanks in advance.

Edited May 31 by brooks1957

[Karnage84]

48 minutes ago, brooks1957 said:

Good morning Lions fans -

This is my first visit to your forums from the Dawg Pound. First off, congratulations on a wonderful 2023 campaign. I know it always sucks when your season ends short of the ultimate goal. But there was a lot to like about the growth of your franchise last year. Dan Campbell is proving he was the right hire at the right time for the Lions franchise.

The point of my visit is to take your temperature about how beneficial Ford Field has been to the Lions and the City of Detroit. The impetus for me wanting to know is the Browns lease with the City of Cleveland expires after the 2028 season. The discussion is currently ongoing about what to do for the 2029 season and beyond.

There are three major options being considered.

A. - Update Cleveland Browns Stadium with newer amenities, but have it remain an open air stadium. This is the least costly option, but the result is less than desirable.

B. - Demolish Cleveland Browns Stadium, build a "land bridge" over the Shoreway that will connect downtown to the waterfront. Rebuild Browns Stadium on the same site as a domed facility.

C. - Move the team 10 minutes out of downtown to Brook Park adjacent to Hopkins Airport. They current have an option to buy a 176 acre plot of land there to primarily build a domed facility there, but also develop an entire retail/entertainment complex. This is also the most hotly debated issue and the most costly. But I think it provides the best value.

 

Whatever the Browns do - I cannot justify, in my mind, committing the dollars and resources necessary to build an open air facility. In this regional climate, you are then limiting the potential use of that facility by AT LEAST 40% of the year if not greater.

Plus the thought of watching my Browns at home in a playoff while dodging the possibility of frostbitten fingers no longer has the same romantic appeal that it once did.

So, I would like to hear from you Lions fans. What have been the pros and cons in your minds of playing in a domed facility downtown? Do you still long for outdoor football?

Thanks in advance.

I don't live in the City, so my opinion is going to hold less weight and detail. Especially regarding some of the economic impacts. 

I have been to see the Lions 4 times. What I enjoyed about the location and the facility is:

1) Dome/Indoor: It's a comfortable space. You don't have to plan to sit in -20 Celsius weather for 5 or 6 hours in order to enjoy the whole gameday experience. I fully agree with you on that, especially in a cold weather climate. 

2) Amenities (Stadium): It has been a while but I seem to recall being happy with the concession stands in the stadium. There was decent variety of options. 

3) Location: I am someone that is in favour of a more centrally located stadium. When I go to a Lions game or a game/event in another city, I am going there to also experience what that city is like. Having a facility that is centrally located in a downtown/central area allows you to have one hotel which allows you to explore the city and the surrounding amenities (bars, restaurants, tourist sites, waterfronts, etc.). In Detroit, I've been able to see the famous Fox Theatre and Comerica Park. I've been to Chelli's (Chris Chelios' bar), Greek Town and I've walked down toward the waterfront. I've seen the Spirit of Detroit and the monument to Joe Louis (the giant statue of a hand). I've cheered for the Lions for 18 years and I feel like I at least have some minor connection to the city itself because of those experiences. If they're located outside in a suburb, I feel like you do lose some of that experience. I live in Ottawa and the Senators (NHL) have their arena in a suburb that's about 20 minutes west of downtown. It's in the middle of nowhere. There's a bunch of places that you can go to before and after the game roughly 5 minutes of a drive away. If you want to walk around, you have to go to the various places within the stadium grounds. If you're coming to the city from out of town to see a game, you're either staying in a hotel nearby (which eliminates that local experience) or you're staying in a centrally located hotel which is 20 minutes away (without traffic, so you're about 1 hour driving back in after the game) to see the rest of the city. You could negate this by staying at two different hotels but then you're inconvenienced that way as well. There are talks about building a new arena in a more centrally located area which would be more accessible to other elements of the city. The traffic will be the issue here and there is an emphasis on utilizing our new Light Rail Transit (LRT) system which has been fairly inconsistent. I've been to Toronto and seen what a gameday looks like (I believe it was a BlueJays game being played). The bars and restaurants are packed, people are walking around the streets. The economic impact on the local businesses is huge. 

 

Those are my 2 cents as an outsider. 

[Sllim Pickens]

As someone who went to games at the Silverdome and Ford Field, I will offer some of my perspective. 

1. Climate, you are spot on.  Being indoors is a huge perk as I have been to outdoor college games in late November and although they are fun, it is not as family friendly as a dome.  You also rid yourself of having to have guys who can handle the elements.  I am guessing Goff would not have been given an extension if we played outdoors as he has been rough in those games since arriving.  Similarly, Watson would likely be better inside although he will be gone by the time the new stadium is built.  

2. Location - This one is a bit tricky.  The Silverdome was much easier to get to and to get out of given it was in a more remote area without all of the other congestion of a big city.  That being said, being in downtown Detroit is fantastic and has really helped the city.  Comerica Park started it but then when Ford Field was built, the area took off.  Tailgating in downtown Detroit with numerous hotel options and the ability to walk or take the people mover almost anywhere in downtown is a perk.  The restaurant, bar, and hotel scene has had a total makeover.  I feel the energy in the city is much better than it was in the suburbs.  

3. Other perks of a dome - As @brooks1957 mentioned, the benefits of a dome go beyond just gameday.  Ford Field has hosted many huge concerts over the years as well as other events such as MSU football games, a Final Four, and Super Bowl XL.  All of these events are made possible by being a dome, and the location. Being close enough to sufficient hotels is a requirement for hosting a Super Bowl and Final Four and Pontiac would not have been able to do that if they stayed out there.  In fact the city had to build/renovate a bunch of hotels just to have Super Bowl XL which really started the push of regenerating downtown Detroit. As mentioned above, all of these extra events draw numerous people to the area which helped revitalize the bar and restaurant scene in Detroit.  Which has led to more business moving in and more apartments/condos being built and occupied.  

So as you mentioned that a whole district would be built by the airport of they take that option, I think having the Stadium stay downtown Cleveland but becoming a dome is the ideal choice.  Even if they build a retractable roof so they can take advantage of it when they want but close it for other events.  The airport area is not something people will want to go visit when they come to Cleveland.  Most would rather coincide the trip with a Guardians game or the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.  So keep it all together down there and help continue the re-growth of downtown Cleveland. I have been out to the IX Center in Cleveland and that area is not exciting at all.  It would take a while to develop into something fun and would move a lot of money being spent on businesses already in downtown to the outskirts and new businesses.  

 

[Just Want A Title]

I am not a super-expert on anything.  The location, whether it be downtown or near the airport should be one that helps drive economic activity in local businesses (no stand-alone stadiums).  You are right about the weather.  A domed-stadium would seem to work better.  The big thing for me to make sure traffic planning is done really well.  Folks like going to football games but they don't like sitting over-loaded transit routes.  Having the stadium adjacent to metro/rail system and bus support are essential to me.

[brooks1957]

Thanks for the input so far guys.

Our two cities are extremely similar, as are our franchises. The airport option here would be the easiest, but downtown may be the best longterm option. It all boils down to who is going to pay for what.......

And BTW - absolutely GREAT job hosting the draft this year. It might be a while before that one is topped.

[nagahide13]

Detroit did a great job of creating a sports mega-complex. The Lions, Tigers and Redwings all play in the same area. There are tons of hotels, restaurants, a hospital, a casino and several parks all within walking distance. The tunnel to Windsor is also right there, "easily" allowing access for Canadians (if they get through the tunnel 😜) It's a surprisingly attractive area.

I bring this up because you don't really want to go to a game and immediately leave. Generally you want to spend a little time (and money) in the areas outside of the game. It almost has an theme park vibe.

[Superduperman]

Season ticket holder last season

- I would never go to an outdoor game in below-40 temps. As it is, the in stadium experience with crowds, narrow seats, overpriced food, etc. balances out with the excitement of being there in person. The discomfort of being out in the cold for 4+ hours would swing that balance way way into the negative for me. I hate the cold. 

- it's been very nice to have Ford Field right there next to Comerica in the midst of downtown. Places you can go before and after, bar shuttles, lots of little tailgate spaces, and the nature of Detroit - with shoddy services and uncertain ownership and maintenance of surrounding areas - is actually a benefit because you can do what you want and no one hassles you.  I remember the Silverdome and there were nothing but flat parking lots all around, so boring

[Sllim Pickens]

4 hours ago, Superduperman said:

Season ticket holder last season

- I would never go to an outdoor game in below-40 temps. As it is, the in stadium experience with crowds, narrow seats, overpriced food, etc. balances out with the excitement of being there in person. The discomfort of being out in the cold for 4+ hours would swing that balance way way into the negative for me. I hate the cold. 

- it's been very nice to have Ford Field right there next to Comerica in the midst of downtown. Places you can go before and after, bar shuttles, lots of little tailgate spaces, and the nature of Detroit - with shoddy services and uncertain ownership and maintenance of surrounding areas - is actually a benefit because you can do what you want and no one hassles you.  I remember the Silverdome and there were nothing but flat parking lots all around, so boring

Agreed on the Silverdome being boring.  I feel like it was a more collegiate vibe for tailgating because that was the only thing to do there, but I was young and never got to experience that.  I like having food options before and after to help avoid traffic or to get hyped up.  Ford Field allows you to tailgate in the bars and restaurants if you want but there are plenty of outdoor tailgate lots if you want to do that, just is more spread out than the Silverdome.  

Similarly, I was so excited when the Post opened across from the Palace so there was something closer, although the stuff at GL Crossing were semi close but nothing super close.  But that place was so packed before and after games because it was the only option. 

Side note, he mentioned they plan a whole development around a new stadium by the airport if they take that option, but LCA was supposed to do that in their area of Detroit and have never really established it.  Fortunately its close enough to the others to take a short walk or bus ride to areas with more stuff but I could see that development by the airport dying quick because it will only be busy during the game/event times and the businesses wont survive the rest of the year. 

[Karnage84]

23 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Fortunately its close enough to the others to take a short walk or bus ride to areas with more stuff but I could see that development by the airport dying quick because it will only be busy during the game/event times and the businesses wont survive the rest of the year. 

I'd say that it would also be counter-productive for the rest of the city. If it's a fully private deal, then they deserve to try and profit off of their investments. If they're incorporating public dollars, then it should have a net positive to the city and surrounding areas. So if it's just focused in and around the airport, I'm assuming that means people will generally stay just in that area. So the rest of the city won't see as much of the tourist dollars impact. Secondly, most of those businesses will probably be located in spaces owned by the Browns ownership group and being paid rent. That is principally going to benefit the Browns ownership group.