Travis Hunter. WR or CB?

[warfelg]

I think we may end up in position to get him, so what say you? What position would you want him to be at?

[rlon]

I think it would be interesting if he was a slot on both sides of the ball. It’s a part time gig on both sides equaling a full time role. I don’t really know if he has that kind of skill set, I just think it would be cool…

[mwalker]

I fall into the very good slot receiver - potentially great CB, camp.

[jebrick]

If he can run excellent routes then he should go WR.  Otherwise, CB.

 

At this point, he is not a good route runner and has flaws in the footwork for CB.  His technique is lacking in both positions and he relies on athleticism in both receiving and CB.  Doing that lowers his floor.  At 6'1 185 he is lean so gets out muscled by receivers and CBs.  His tackling is crap but nothing new for the NFL.

 

Given all that he is a prime boom-bust prospect.  High ceiling low floor AT THIS POINT.  Lets see if he shows more this year.

Edited July 18 by jebrick

[armsteeld]

He's a boundary CB who excels in Zone coverage but is also Man capable. Tackling needs more refinement.

As a WR, he's an elite prospect. He's similar to Devonta Smith but bigger (recently weighed in at 190 iirc).

[warfelg]

I’m on the fence on him. I really want to see him focusing on one position. I heard one YouTube guy say it best - he shows you plenty of traits as to why he could be a high pick at both positions, but he’s too raw at both to feel confident taking him high at either position. He needs to be able to worry about one or the other and refine the skills needed to play that position full time.

[jebrick]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

I’m on the fence on him. I really want to see him focusing on one position. I heard one YouTube guy say it best - he shows you plenty of traits as to why he could be a high pick at both positions, but he’s too raw at both to feel confident taking him high at either position. He needs to be able to worry about one or the other and refine the skills needed to play that position full time.

Exactly.  he needs to work on his craft at one position.  Deion Sanders was an excellent athlete but he also had a very solid technique which is why he was so good.  i wish he would just teach technique to his DBs during practice.

[warfelg]

16 hours ago, jebrick said:

Exactly.  he needs to work on his craft at one position.  Deion Sanders was an excellent athlete but he also had a very solid technique which is why he was so good.  i wish he would just teach technique to his DBs during practice.

That and for Deion, at least in the NFL, playing both offense and defense was more of a stunt offensively because mostly it would be as WR4 running a streak or post. Basically they just told him get out there and run downfield, if you're open you'll get it, if not come off the field.

I've been going over Hunters tape though because of the interest in him playing two ways. And I've come to this conclusion:

I want him playing CB. He's a very fluid mover, locates the ball well, can play man, but excels at zone. He does a good job at using his body to drive WR's in the direction really well. Watching both sides he seems to understand defensive help much better where safeties and linebackers are his help, when he can be aggressive playing the ball and when he needs to lay back. Add in that he's long and has some good physical traits for CB. Worst case to take advantage of his athleticism, you can do a small offensive package for him, and with the new KR rules I would put him back there too.

The issues I have at WR could be fixed, but they would take much more to learn and create a bigger curve. He's not great at bending routes or leveraging his body and route. I see too many catches that he should have had better separation but he's cutting off the wrong foot or just a really soft route. His tree seems to be limited to slant, out, corner, post -- not that this is a knock because many college WR's have limited route trees.

The physical part of being lean - I'm actually very OK with right now. Because he plays by far away the most snaps of anyone in D1 ball, fatigue is real for him. It tends to lead to sloppy work late in games and season, so mark this as another spot where being a two way player is a big disservice for him, because you would like to see him play well in these big moments late in games when the rhythm and physicality of the game has been set. So basically I think it helps him right now to be lean like he is. I would expect you get him into an NFL program, set him on one side of the ball, reduce that fatigue and wear on the body of playing 2 ways, you then have the ability to get him in the weight room and get him up to 205, which would be a great playing weight for him being 6'1".

[armsteeld]

Raw or underdeveloped as a WR huh...based on what? What routes does he struggle running? Hunter is a top 5 WR prospect in this upcoming class.

As a CB, he does need to develop small things when in Man coverage like backpedaling, jamming with the proper hand while keeping his hips open, tackling,etc... Problem is how much of his issues have to do with being tired. He was doing way too much and hopefully the depth they have at CB and WR can help keep him fresher.

[rlon]

5 hours ago, armsteeld said:

Raw or underdeveloped as a WR huh...based on what? What routes does he struggle running? Hunter is a top 5 WR prospect in this upcoming class.

As a CB, he does need to develop small things when in Man coverage like backpedaling, jamming with the proper hand while keeping his hips open, tackling,etc... Problem is how much of his issues have to do with being tired. He was doing way too much and hopefully the depth they have at CB and WR can help keep him fresher.

I looked at some tape on this guy, very interesting. Outside corner seems to be his top position, and I think he’d make a heck of a returner. I still like the slot to the second power idea though, fantastically. Most analysts are leaning towards corner over WR, and it’s more than a lean.

[jebrick]

10 hours ago, armsteeld said:

Raw or underdeveloped as a WR huh...based on what? What routes does he struggle running? Hunter is a top 5 WR prospect in this upcoming class.

As a CB, he does need to develop small things when in Man coverage like backpedaling, jamming with the proper hand while keeping his hips open, tackling,etc... Problem is how much of his issues have to do with being tired. He was doing way too much and hopefully the depth they have at CB and WR can help keep him fresher.

Really?  Wr can run routes like his corner, post, fly or they can learn to run routes correctly.  Is is not even in the same picture as ANY of the OSU WR drafted in the recent years.  Same with Odunze.  All players that run NFL style route trees and know how to get in an out of the routes, how to sell the fake and dig the break.  Hunter has NONE OF THAT.  Ignore the stats and look at the player.

I am not saying that he is not a potential 1st round pick but he is not even at the Ricky Pearsall level.  I would put him on the same level as Ja'Lynn Polk as a WR AT THIS POINT.

[Dcash4]

I watched a highlight video of his and yeah, raw is a good word for his receiver skills. Great ball skills. Definitely has some spark after the catch, but there is zero to take away from his route running -- and that's what makes or breaks dudes like him in the league. I see way more Kadarius Toney than I do Garrett Wilson. Guys are going to be in his pocket so much more in the league or redirecting him physically. It's 100% projection at this stage to say he can do any of that, because he just didn't or didn't have to. Big year for him if he wants to be a receiver to show he can -- hard to grow in that detail, though, when you are playing both ways. Going to be an uphill battle. 

10 outta 10 would take him to play CB immediately. 

[armsteeld]

Route running is the most commonly misunderstood skill of a WR. From peewee to college to NFL, most players run the same routes. The only difference is scheme. Most schemes adapt and disregard routes that aren't deemed beneficial to their playbook/scheme. 

Why do some players run routes better than others? Simple. Flexibility and pace manipulation. Saying a player is raw due to route running is a common misconception. Don't throw out misnomers without providing context. Travis Hunter is not "raw" as a WR. As of today, Hunter's a better WR than he is as a CB. I watched most of his games at JSU and Colorado. My voice carries as much weight as everyone else's but Hunter is a legit top 5 WR prospect.

[rlon]

9 hours ago, armsteeld said:

Route running is the most commonly misunderstood skill of a WR. From peewee to college to NFL, most players run the same routes. The only difference is scheme. Most schemes adapt and disregard routes that aren't deemed beneficial to their playbook/scheme. 

Why do some players run routes better than others? Simple. Flexibility and pace manipulation. Saying a player is raw due to route running is a common misconception. Don't throw out misnomers without providing context. Travis Hunter is not "raw" as a WR. As of today, Hunter's a better WR than he is as a CB. I watched most of his games at JSU and Colorado. My voice carries as much weight as everyone else's but Hunter is a legit top 5 WR prospect.

He just doesn’t look that natural to me out there at receiver. He looks more fluid and instinctive as a corner. He is running simple routes…I don’t know how anyone can take much away from them either way. And, as stated, I don’t see many touting him as a wide receiver first. 

[warfelg]

Um, route running, in my opinion, is misunderstood because we try to simplify it too much.

Let's just start with getting in and out of breaks. I'm sure Hunter can do it because of how well he moves as a CB but he hasn't done enough as a WR for me to have a really good feeling of how good he is at it. In the times I've seen him do it, his elbows go out, hips drop, steps studder. What that tells me is he runs rather upright, so the drop of the hips and elbows out he needs to slow himself down too much. Compare that with some of the other top WR prospects who run with their hips at a more level spot and arms stay nice an in when they break. Running in that style makes your timing of cuts less predictable and makes CB's react rather than act on movement. Then the step part. It's not every time, but he does it enough. Smart CB's will use that and study when he does that and which way he is breaking and how hard when he does it. Smart CB's in the league will use that to know when they should jump routes vs sit in their pedal.

Next there's the subtlety of bending routes, pressing DB's with inside leverage to the inside so open up the boundary for his QB. Jumping leverage as a route starts so get the DB riding his pocket in a way that a cut would create the little separation he needs. Using his body to shield defenders to help his QB by giving an easy throw spot. There's been a few too many times on those 9 routes up the sideline where he let the DB push him up against the boundary and make the throw window too small. There's been times where you can see (especially after the dirty hit that took him out for some of the season) where DB's played outside leverage with S help, and without him just out athleticing the guy off the line, he struggled to make the space.

End of the day he's a fantastic athlete, will potentially excel at whichever position he's at. I just feel like as a CB he's in a position that he could be a top 5 CB in the NFL, but at WR, I think he's a high end 2, low end 1. End of the day he's not going to play full time on either side of the ball. We've seen that the types of things he needs to work on offensively can make a player look and play very mechanical and get out of place. Where as a CB, you can let him out more as a "run on instincts" type player and slowly evolve his skill set.