kyle21121 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 I was just thinking about all time rankings the other day. To start off it's really difficult to not have Cav as the best ever sprinter. He's just so far ahead of everyone else and it's not like there haven't been dominant sprinters before. Erik Zabel or Mario Chipolini come to mind. For Froome I would likely have him in that 5-7 range right now if his career ended today like Contador's did and realistically I could put him 4th in the next couple of years above Indurain if things break right and he wins the Vuelta or another Tour. Maybe 3rd is achievable. When I look at the complete body of work and all that Eddy Merckx had accomplished I find it difficult to not have him first. 5 Giros, 5 TDF, 1 Vuelta and 3 World road race championships. Plus all the individual stage victories in all the grand tours which is 64 total including a record 34 in the TDF which is what I believe Cav is chasing and could have gotten there this year had he not been injured. Along with all those wins he's won the TDF points classification 3 times, TDF Mountians twice, combative award 4 times and even the old combinations jersey 5 times. The Giro points classification twice and the Mountians once. The Vuelta points classification and combination once each. The accolades are unreachable. Bernard Hinault would be second with 5 TDF, 3 Giros, 3 Vueltas and 1 World road race championship. 41 total GT stage victories and all the jerseys in the TDF. Jacques Anquetil would be third with 5 TDF, 2 Giros and 1 Vuelta. 22 total GT stage victories. Miguel Indurain would be fourth right now with 5 TDF, 2 Giros and The World TT championship and Olympic Gold in the TT. 16 total GT stage victories. As of right now I would probably have Froome fifth but it's so hard to rank some of these other guys Froome with 4 TDF wins up against others that have more total wins and individual stage victories throughout like Fausto Coppi with 5 Giros and 2 TDFs with 31 GT stages or Contador with 3 Vueltas, 2 Giros and 2 TDFs or Nibali with 2 Giro, 1 TDF and 1 Vuelta. It is probably easier to but Froome above them as he has been competing against them and the general value of what the TDF means and having won it 4 times. There are multiple others from very different eras we could include and there are riders that had a much shorter peak or riders that couldn't quite win as much with multiple top 5 finishes in all major GTs you could consider but it's so hard. An example would be Stephen Roache in 1987 he won the Giro, TDF and World Championship that year which is essentially the cycling triple crown but that's about it. Marco Pantani had the TDF and Giro in 1998. Jan Ulrich would be an example with multiple 2nd place finishes (without a winner I might add) but only 1 TDF win. LeMond and Fignon and others all had spectacular careers I don't want to leave any obvious names off. Its just insanely hard to do a top 10 but I think I'd have to include Contador and Nibali in that top 10 so maybe something like 1. Merckx 2. Hinault 3. Anquetil 4. Indurain 5. Froome 6. LeMond 7. Coppi 8. Contador 9. Nibali 10. Fignon I came up with that list not only on accolades although I needed multiple TDF wins (9/10 riders had) or the trifecta which Nibali had as he is one of 6 riders to do so. Gimondi is the only one I didn't rank with the trifecta and it was hard not to but I used some personal on what I know or have heard from Fignon, Coppi or LeMond I felt I had to include them. They all hit the heights and had a very high level of dominance I needed to include. It's not the perfect list but I'm gonna go with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kempus Posted August 8, 2017 Author Share Posted August 8, 2017 25 minutes ago, kyle21121 said: 1. Merckx 2. Hinault 3. Anquetil 4. Indurain 5. Froome 6. LeMond 7. Coppi 8. Contador 9. Nibali 10. Fignon Very solid list. Merckx is unquestionable as the top guy. Hinault, Anquetil and Indurain are 2, 3 and 4, too. Froome at fifth is correct, imo. With a Tour-Vuelta double and another TDF, he would be at 3rd in the rankings imo. This is where it gets tough. Having considered it, I would actually jump Contador up to 6th. With Coppi 7th and Lemond 8th. I have no idea how to rank the next two. You can pick from a huge range of cyclists over a massive range of eras. Very tough to rank. Someone who I have to bring up is Lance Armstrong. Regardless of being doped up, his achievement of winning 7 straight TDFs is obscene. Merckx, Anquetil, Coppi, Contador, Fignon and lord knows how many more, were either caught or openly abmit to taking drugs. Yet, Armstrong is the only one who's achievements are diminished. Armstrong is arguably the 2nd greatest and the only guy whos achievements you could argue against Merckx as number 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKTexans Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Merckx's 1969 TdF will never be matched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle21121 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 I agree. The top 5 I think is set as of today. Those 5 guys in that exact order is how it should look. Froome moving up to 4th is very much in play and even possibly 3rd I'd have no issues with that. 6-10 was very tough you'd have to aleast include LeMond, Coppi and Contador in that range and you could go for like 5-10 different riders for the 9th and 10th spots I have no issues with those assessments. A straight flip of Contador and LeMond is fine. I would love to include Lance Armstrong if I could he would at least be 2nd and I would probably argue he is 1st. He certainly was unfairly treated in the whole process but he did himself no favours being so defiant and what he did to many people and many organizations they really dropped the book on him. Cycling is unlike any other sport it's hard to just erase basically an entire decade of the tour compared to what many other past riders received as punishment. It's not a rarity in the sport though it wasn't like he was the one cheater and this was necessary and had to be fixed this way or if he was in the small minority. It was widespread basically throughout history and more specifically in the blood doping are that started in the early to mid 90's. If someone were to choose to simply disregard him I would have no issue with that but if someone wanted to add an asterisk and rank him that would be fine but you'd have to add an asterisk to almost everyone else maybe a separate 90's asterisk to denote that era where it was more advanced. I'm not really sure what to do with him overall so I just didn't and felt I couldn't include him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle21121 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, texans_uk said: Merckx's 1969 TdF will never be matched. No it will not. Winning every classification and 6 stages while winning be almost 18 mins over second place is the absolute most dominant performance ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kempus Posted August 8, 2017 Author Share Posted August 8, 2017 Yeah, in my eyes, Armstrong still won those Tours. All of his main competitors were also doping. Ullrich and Basso etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle21121 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 6 minutes ago, kempus said: Yeah, in my eyes, Armstrong still won those Tours. All of his main competitors were also doping. Ullrich and Basso etc. It's true. If you want to add Lance Armstrong to the list maybe at #2 I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that but at this point after everything I'm not gonna fight for him to be first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKTexans Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 1 hour ago, kempus said: Yet, Armstrong is the only one who's achievements are diminished. His own fault for being such an incomprehensibly huge ******. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kempus Posted August 8, 2017 Author Share Posted August 8, 2017 45 minutes ago, texans_uk said: His own fault for being such an incomprehensibly huge ******. Regardless of personality, his achievments should be looked at no less than anyone else who is a proven doper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kempus Posted August 8, 2017 Author Share Posted August 8, 2017 http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kwiatkowski-agrees-new-three-year-deal-with-team-sky/ Sky retain Kwiatkowski for another 3 years. Great news for Sky and it looks like they're trying to move him towards a bigger GC role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKTexans Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 20 minutes ago, kempus said: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kwiatkowski-agrees-new-three-year-deal-with-team-sky/ Sky retain Kwiatkowski for another 3 years. Great news for Sky and it looks like they're trying to move him towards a bigger GC role. Lower the chances of signing the Yates'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kempus Posted August 8, 2017 Author Share Posted August 8, 2017 9 minutes ago, texans_uk said: Lower the chances of signing the Yates'? If Kwiatkowski can make the transfer to a guy who wins Grand Tours, then yes. I'm doubtful he can, so at this point, I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kempus Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 http://www.cyclingnews.com/vuelta-a-espana/preview/ Decent preview of the Vuelta. Should be a very exciting race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKTexans Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 I'm looking forward to a gruelling Tour. The TdF was too lightweight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kempus Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 1 hour ago, texans_uk said: I'm looking forward to a gruelling Tour. The TdF was too lightweight. It's going to be savage. The Giro and Vuelta always are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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