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Fragafootball

TCM RAMS GM

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27 minutes ago, Fragafootball said:

Hey guys,

I have some trade offers on the table and I wanted to get some insight from you guys before making these decisions.

How do you guys rank Brown? He doesn't cost me anything in cap space and he is pretty young, so I really don't want to let him go. But I feel like we need some Guard upgrades, and I'm confident I can get someone in the draft. I would preferably move Saffold, but he's not generating much interest. So the question is, do you guys see Brown as a true starter at RG?

I also wanted to know what you guys think of our TEs. Who do you rank higher Higbee or Everett? How do you guys see both those guys fitting into our scheme in 2018? There are a couple good receiving tight ends in FA I could target. Which one would you guys be more inclined to trade?

I’m good with the current TE roster. As for Brown he’s one we might replace this year but I’m not spending a high draft pick to do it nor am I spending big money to do so. Our cap space I’m using on Joyner, TruJo or an equivelant FA, NRC, Sullivan, maybe an ILB and Watkins if the price is right. Also I’m extending Donald.

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33 minutes ago, NVRamsFan said:

I’m good with the current TE roster. As for Brown he’s one we might replace this year but I’m not spending a high draft pick to do it nor am I spending big money to do so. Our cap space I’m using on Joyner, TruJo or an equivelant FA, NRC, Sullivan, maybe an ILB and Watkins if the price is right. Also I’m extending Donald.

I'm good with the current TE roster as well, but I gotta give something up to get the CB I want. 

I've also managed to pick up a WR for a fraction of Watkins cap space. Trumaine is gonna cost me quite a bit to resign. I can get two veterans for a little more than he would cost by himself. 

I don't want to let them go, but I think I can build a stronger team withou them.

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I wouldn't replace Brown. He played well this year. He improved as the sewsdon went on, is on a cheap deal, and is young. There's no reason to create a hole when we have a talented, young OL. We should improve our OL depth, not weaken it.

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On 1/28/2018 at 10:22 AM, Fragafootball said:

It looks like I'd save about 12 million trading Quinn. I'm confident we could develop Longacre into a blue chip OLB. I could reinvest that into a solid DL in FA, and maybe even add the rest of it into Aaron Donald's extension. I think our Line is pretty interchangeable. AD could play anywhere and Brockers works at LE and NT só one more strong linemen gives us a pretty strong front 7. Looking into some LBs who worked well in Phillips system, feeling optimistic I could build upon the young talented players we already have with some physically more imposing veterans.

If it's a good deal, take it, but I wouldn't trade Quinn for peanuts. I still am opposed to Brockers at NT.

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34 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

If it's a good deal, take it, but I wouldn't trade Quinn for peanuts. I still am opposed to Brockers at NT.

I have noted and I follow your reasoning. I switched my focus over to a more flexible NT. That way we can keep him at DE, I agree that he was a better player there. Scouting the draft for some talent at NT, got a couple of names. I'm also gonna put in an offer for Haloti Ngata if he is available and won't cost too much. 

I have traded Quinn, I don't think it was for peanuts, I got a pick and a player I'd love to see play for us next year. I will post it here once it's official and will write a little blurb over my reasoning behind it. 

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43 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

I wouldn't replace Brown. He played well this year. He improved as the sewsdon went on, is on a cheap deal, and is young. There's no reason to create a hole when we have a talented, young OL. We should improve our OL depth, not weaken it.

I agree.

But it's such a juicy offer. I need to give something up for the player I'm targeting. I'm struggling with the decision, but I think I'm gonna go through with it. 

What do you think of Max Garcia from the Broncos?

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I could also move Havenstein to guard, if I can find a RT over G. I remember there being talk of him moving inside during the offseason last year. 

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2 hours ago, Fragafootball said:

I agree.But it's such a juicy offer. I need to give something up for the player I'm targeting. I'm struggling with the decision, but I think I'm gonna go through with it. 

What do you think of Max Garcia from the Broncos?

Garcia is not an OG for us imo. Kromer likes big OGs (325+ pounds). I wouldn't want Garcia starting anywhere but maybe Center. He'd be acceptable depth, though. I still don't like the idea of trading Brown unless we're getting a cheap, young player in return who is a quality starter at a position where we have a hole. Quality players on rookie contracts are very valuable, and OL play is extremely valuable. Continuity there is huge.

2 hours ago, Fragafootball said:

I have noted and I follow your reasoning. I switched my focus over to a more flexible NT. That way we can keep him at DE, I agree that he was a better player there. Scouting the draft for some talent at NT, got a couple of names. I'm also gonna put in an offer for Haloti Ngata if he is available and won't cost too much. 

I have traded Quinn, I don't think it was for peanuts, I got a pick and a player I'd love to see play for us next year. I will post it here once it's official and will write a little blurb over my reasoning behind it. 

Can you give us a head's up on the deals on the table? This is your show. I'm just curious. Maybe send a PM?

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5 hours ago, jrry32 said:

Garcia is not an OG for us imo. Kromer likes big OGs (325+ pounds). I wouldn't want Garcia starting anywhere but maybe Center. He'd be acceptable depth, though. I still don't like the idea of trading Brown unless we're getting a cheap, young player in return who is a quality starter at a position where we have a hole. Quality players on rookie contracts are very valuable, and OL play is extremely valuable. Continuity there is huge.

Can you give us a head's up on the deals on the table? This is your show. I'm just curious. Maybe send a PM?

^^^

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I may move both Guards. The Brown offer got jucier and I just got a high pick offer for Saffold.... 

I'm going to see how interior linemen are looking in FA before making any decisions. 

Gonna be tough moving Brown, but I have never been a fan of Saffold. 

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4 hours ago, Fragafootball said:

I may move both Guards. The Brown offer got jucier and I just got a high pick offer for Saffold.... 

I'm going to see how interior linemen are looking in FA before making any decisions. 

Gonna be tough moving Brown, but I have never been a fan of Saffold. 

I'm going to warn you if you haven't done this before...FA is chaotic. I never count on obtaining people there (obviously, we all land some of our guys), but some of the offers can be completely outrageous. So even if you think the market is strong, I wouldn't hamstring myself at a position and expect it to be improved through free agency. 

Btw, I did like the Quinn trade for you. 

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4 hours ago, Fragafootball said:

I may move both Guards. The Brown offer got jucier and I just got a high pick offer for Saffold.... 

I'm going to see how interior linemen are looking in FA before making any decisions. 

Gonna be tough moving Brown, but I have never been a fan of Saffold. 

Just no.  I realize this is your mock to run as you wish, but I'll echo both @jrry32's and @Forge's sentiments... blowing up your entire starting IOL without viable replacements who could reasonably be expected to start already in your roster depth is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

This is an OL that just blocked Gurley to Top 5 in the league in All-Purpose yards.  Guards played an integral part of McVay's scheme in Washington and an even bigger part of Kromer's blocking schemes in both Chicago and New Orleans.

I'd be interested to see what you consider a "high pick offer" for Saffold (i.e. is it an actual high pick or is it a high pick relative to what you think Saffold is worth?).

Also consider the fact that if people are offering you these "great offers" for players you don't think too highly of, it's more likely that the FA guard class is lackluster than it is that they're just dumb and overvaluing players you think aren't that good.  The biggest Achilles heel to a Mock GM is thinking they're smarter than the rest of the room.

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12 minutes ago, The LBC said:

Just no.  I realize this is your mock to run as you wish, but I'll echo both @jrry32's and @Forge's sentiments... blowing up your entire starting IOL without viable replacements who could reasonably be expected to start already in your roster depth is a cutting off your nose to spite your face.

This is an OL that just blocked Gurley to Top 5 in the league in All-Purpose yards.  Guards played an integral part of McVay's scheme in Washington and an even bigger part of Kromer's blocking schemes in both Chicago and New Orleans.

I'd be interested to see what you consider a "high pick offer" for Saffold (i.e. is it an actual high pick or is it a high pick relative to what you think Saffold is worth?).

Also consider the fact that if people are offering you these "great offers" for players you don't think too highly of, it's more likely that the FA guard class is lackluster than it is that they're just dumb and overvaluing players you think aren't that good.  The biggest Achilles heel to a Mock GM is thinking they're smarter than the rest of the room.

Continuity on the OL is huge. If it were me, I'd be intent on strengthening our OL depth rather than blowing the OL apart. People get desperate for OGs in FA and dish out some big deals. It's hard to pull a quality one without paying out your rear end for him. Goff had great pass protection this year, and the OL improved significantly as the year went on as run blockers. By the end of the year, they were amongst the best in the NFL. I'd stick with what we have and try to grab an OG in case Saffold gets hurt and an OT of the future. But this isn't my show. 

The thing about these Mock Drafts is that when you're new to it, you don't want to stand pat with what you have. You want to make a bunch of deals and a bunch of big splashes. The problem is that the strategy often blows up in your face. You end up making too many deals and damage a good thing. It's hard to be patient in these mocks, but it's generally the best policy.

Edited by jrry32

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8 minutes ago, The LBC said:

Just no.  I realize this is your mock to run as you wish, but I'll echo both @jrry32's and @Forge's sentiments... blowing up your entire starting IOL without viable replacements who could reasonably be expected to start already in your roster depth is a cutting off your nose to spite your face.

This is an OL that just blocked Gurley to Top 5 in the league in All-Purpose yards.  Guards played an integral part of McVay's scheme in Washington and an even bigger part of Kromer's blocking schemes in both Chicago and New Orleans.

I'd be interested to see what you consider a "high pick offer" for Saffold (i.e. is it an actual high pick or is it a high pick relative to what you think Saffold is worth?).

Also consider the fact that if people are offering you these "great offers" for players you don't think too highly of, it's more likely that the FA guard class is lackluster than it is that they're just dumb and overvaluing players you think aren't that good.  The biggest Achilles heel to a Mock GM is thinking they're smarter than the rest of the room.

Ouch, a bit uncalled for.

 

You are right, I haven't done this before so I'm bound to make mistakes. 

I am trying to balance things out in trades because I'm not too sure I can get anyone in Free Agency. I was hoping I could walk into it with 1 or two targets and just resign Joyner, Sullivan, NRC, and probably Barwin. 

I haven't accepted the trades yet because I understand the risks of dismantling a chunk of the OL. 

No need to be so condescending bro. I don't think anyone is being dumb and overvaluing our players. I think that the fact I value people's insight shows I don't think I'm the smartest man in the room. I most likely won't trade both Guards. I really don't want to let Brown go, so I probably won't. @jrry32 made a great point on the value of players in rookie contracts. 

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3 hours ago, Fragafootball said:

Ouch, a bit uncalled for.

 

You are right, I haven't done this before so I'm bound to make mistakes. 

I am trying to balance things out in trades because I'm not too sure I can get anyone in Free Agency. I was hoping I could walk into it with 1 or two targets and just resign Joyner, Sullivan, NRC, and probably Barwin. 

I haven't accepted the trades yet because I understand the risks of dismantling a chunk of the OL. 

No need to be so condescending bro. I don't think anyone is being dumb and overvaluing our players. I think that the fact I value people's insight shows I don't think I'm the smartest man in the room. I most likely won't trade both Guards. I really don't want to let Brown go, so I probably won't. @jrry32 made a great point on the value of players in rookie contracts. 

It was more an expression than an attempt to condescend.  I've said similar things to @jrry32 in the past and he's much more the sort to think himself the smartest guy in the room (and by room I'm not referring to in here... I was speak in terms of among your the other GM's in the mock).  That was more my point, in these kind of mocks you have to have a plan, but you also have to recognize times when to step back and ask yourself why people are coming at you for certain guys.  The other reason I bring it up is it can benefit you huge if you're looking for those opportunities where another GM is, in your observation, acting like he is that "smartest guy in the room," as it'll kind of give you an idea of who may or may not be easier (or sometimes even worth) trying to do business with (definitely helps to keep track of for those instances when you're looking at moving around in the actual draft).

Just, as an example, I have no idea if this has been offered to you, but I suspect it may have or may be because the Broncos GM projected such a trade in his own Mock in the Mock Draft sub-forum: i.e. if they've offered you Aqib Talib.  Stop and consider that yes, if he (Broncos GM) can't trade him he'll likely cut him because he needs the cap space to pursue a QB in FA.  That's not to say don't trade for him, but recognize the kind of leverage you have, if he wants the cap space, he needs to give you a major discount on the cost to acquire (any of us - jrry, yonesh, myself, etc. are more than happy to contribute input on what the ceiling for that ought to be in a stand-alone pick before you ought to start demanding a swap of picks in the same round - which could be beneficial for you if you're really keen on adding through the draft, as it gives you a roughly 20-pick jump in a round which can be a big boon in the middle rounds).

I apologize if my earlier post came off as condescending, it wasn't my intention.  However, I've always had a mind that mocks ought to have more of a basis in realism versus fantasy - and I think jrry can tell you from experience that approaching this particular mock from that perspective is the best way to not get caught with you pants down if/when Plans A, B, and sometimes even C fall through because you'll get opposing GM's who sacrifice all their depth for the best starting sides.  I have another bit I'll PM you about because it's a handy tip, but not one I like to make public.

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