Players you think are being overhyped/overrated

[JustPlainNasty]

I started writing this topic earlier in the week but got too busy to finish it, perhaps it will seem like im piling on Orlando Brown, but I dont really care, I see what I see and figured I'd share anyways. I'll try to add a few guys when I can but for now these are at the forefront of my concerns. I didn't even add any commentary based on todays performance for Brown. 

 

Every year it happens a player or two or more that seems to be getting really hyped up by the media. When I don't see the same thing I typically try to find the tape or reason for all the love. When I've watched 4 or 5 games on a guy and still haven't seen it I have to put my hands up and question what am I missing?  Usually Im pretty comfortable that Im not but am open to suggestions as to why the differences in points of view.

Top Candidates so far this year

1. Orlando Brown - I understand hes a big guy and when he gets in front of you and his hands on you theres not much you can do.  He plays sluggish often and is very lackadaisical on the field. He may have the genes but that doesnt mean he has the same desire or work ethic. If you want a comp for his size and style of play I'd argue that he is a lesser Phil Loadholdt. Phil was a huge guy that once he got his hands on you it was over, he tried to and could stay in front pretty well with his sheer size. I actually saw a lot better play from that Sooner than the current one. Does anybody have a game that they suggest I watch where I'd be impressed?

Heres my actual notes on him

Weaknesses: Feet/shuffle not very good. Often lunges at quicker ends and gets off balance. Very slow pulling and often doesn't get around in time. Does not locate blocks on the move. Stands upright in the run game and defenders get under his pads often clogging things up. Often slow and sluggish to react. Often slow and clunky pulling and often ties things up in the backfield, not even getting past center.

Strengths: Long arms to keep defenders at bay and off of him, makes up for some of the sluggish feet. Difficult to get around in pass game. Technique is not great but difficult to move a mountain.

Games viewed: 2017 vs UTEP; vs Texas; @ Oklahoma State; 2016 vs Ohio State;

Currently ranked 116  with a 5th-6th round value grade.

2. Mason Rudolph -  Isn't this the same Oklahoma State quarterback we see every year, just change the name plate. Big quarterback with a kind of big arm that throws not very accurate passes to big wide open receivers that win jump balls etc. Couple that with a speedy running back that opens thing up in the wide spread wide open Big 12. I don't see it at all with this guy other than the decently big arm. He's stiff as hell and his throws aren't very accurate. 

Summary - In search for the 5th/6th quarterback of the 2018 class, teams will try to push Rudolph up the board and potentially overvalue him. Accuracy is shaky at times. Semi mobile. Stiff. Stares down receivers at times. Arm average, mobility average, accuracy average. Eventual backup that teams will try to start for stretches during his career.

Weaknesses - Pocket awareness. Kind of stiff and often flat footed. One read game. Accuracy and arm average.

Strengths - Size.

Games Watched - 2017 Camping World Bowl vs Va Tech; 2017 vs Oklahoma; @ Texas Tech; @ Texas;   2016 Alamo Bowl vs Colorado; 2015 vs Baylor;  vs Texas 

Currently ranked 89th but his grade is a 4th round value

3. Mike McGlinchey - I don't not like McGlinchey but this is more of a buyer beware. He has some mighty struggles in the passing game at times and has been beaten many times just this year. Granted their QB was pretty awful, to the point that its hard for Equinameous St Brown to even have any kind of tape to evaluate from this year. That said, McGlinchey will probably start out a few pegs below a guy like Costanzo started. In other words he's not a definite #1 tackle with the certain fall of Brown, hes just ahead of the pack of O'Neil & Miller in my opinion because he has much more to offer in the running game. I do have two different legitimate tackles ahead of all of them.

Summary - Cousin of Atlanta Falcons QB Matt Ryan. His natural ability will be coveted. More experience and time and he should be very good depending on desire to hone his craft and skill. He should shoot up the boards by draft time and be a mid to late first round pick. Needs to use his hands more and better in sync with his feet to keep defenders from bending around his edge.

Weaknesses - Hands and punch. Off balance and on the ground too much, gets caught reaching. Needs to get more consistent with technique,  and a bit nastier.

Strengths - Making contact on second level and driving blocks downfield. Has good athleticism and looks fluid going forward.

Currently ranked 37th , grade is late 2nd to early 3rd value with more work to do. 

4. Connor Williams - I like Connor Williams but this is another buyer beware. My concerns were confirmed yesterday with his measurements. However, coming in as light as he did has thrown me off a bit, makes it a little tougher to be that mauler inside. He did look to move pretty well though in some of the drills I watched. He can play outside but my fears when watching the tape was that he's the Big 12's next Luke Joeckel. His nastiness and punch make me much more comfortable for his play inside. I would hope that my team could draft him with a need and mindset that gaining a tackle or guard would be fine.

Weaknesses-  Feet are not great, can get beat back inside if forced to reset. Can get off balance. Arm length?

Strengths - Good strong punch. Keeps hands inside shoulders well. Gets good push off the line and excels in run blocking. Very stout. Very nasty.

Summary - May make a much better guard than tackle.

Games Viewed - 2017 vs Maryland; @ West Virginia; 2016 vs TCU; vs West Virginia;

Currently Ranked : 28th with a 2nd round value. 

[Armsteeld2]

@JustPlainNasty I'd love OB Jr as a Steeler.  He's a massive man that dominates on the field and gets to the 2nd level well.  I've watched about 4 or 5 cutups and he didn't give up a single sack even while going up against the talented OSU defensive ends.  I see a draft and play starting OT.

[JustPlainNasty]

24 minutes ago, Armsteeld2 said:

@JustPlainNasty I'd love OB Jr as a Steeler.  He's a massive man that dominates on the field and gets to the 2nd level well.  I've watched about 4 or 5 cutups and he didn't give up a single sack even while going up against the talented OSU defensive ends.  I see a draft and play starting OT.

Not my cup of tea. 

[Armsteeld2]

Just now, JustPlainNasty said:

Good luck with that, I'd probably vomit unless we plan on abandoning the run game and going to a full spread offense. 

This game shows his dominance.... 

 

[jebrick]

The red flag is his combine performance.  He did worst in almost all categories than Greg Senat from Wagner ( listed as a 7th-UDFA)  Before you say look at the tape I will point to Jarvis Jones.  He has decent tape as well and a horrible combine numbers.

10 yard split of 2 seconds!!!!!

14  bench

19 VJ  Are you kidding me !!

6'10 BJ

He has shown zero explosiveness.

 

He will get drafted but I think he just cost himself a lot of money.  My guess is he does not go until the 3rd round or later.  But the Bengals will take a shot at him much higher.

[warfelg]

OB Jr and McG are going to be two guys that you have to throw the combine out on and relook at their film.  We did that with Tuitt and JuJu and it payed off big time.

[warfelg]

Combine is going to make Sony Michel look overrated too because he didn't measure well.  But he's a guy I would love.

[Armsteeld2]

Just now, jebrick said:

The red flag is his combine performance.  He did worst in almost all categories than Greg Senat from Wagner ( listed as a 7th-UDFA)  Before you say look at the tape I will point to Jarvis Jones.  He has decent tape as well and a horrible combine numbers.

10 yard split of 2 seconds!!!!!

14  bench

19 VJ  Are you kidding me !!

6'10 BJ

He has shown zero explosiveness.

 

He will get drafted but I think he just cost himself a lot of money.  My guess is he does not go until the 3rd round or later.  But the Bengals will take a shot at him much higher.

If he hadn't performed at the combine, would you have an issue with his play?  He is my favorite Tackle prospect in this draft and if he is there in the 2nd, I'd love the Steelers to draft him.

[warfelg]

Just now, Armsteeld2 said:

If he hadn't performed at the combine, would you have an issue with his play?  He is my favorite Tackle prospect in this draft and if he is there in the 2nd, I'd love the Steelers to draft him.

Yup, a player not an athlete.  He just moves people.  Like the Division 2 kid.  Just men when it comes to playing OL.  I don't love Maylock, but I like his one for OL.  He's a bouncer and throws guys out the club.

[jebrick]

2 hours ago, warfelg said:

OB Jr and McG are going to be two guys that you have to throw the combine out on and relook at their film.  We did that with Tuitt and JuJu and it payed off big time.

Javis Jones.  Good tape really bad combine numbers. 

This is not just having a bad number here or there.  This is being the WORST OT AT THE COMBINE AT ALL LEVELS.  This is from a OT that was in the running for best in the draft class.  I did not say he was undraftable but his Pro day now becomes the most important day in his life.

Tuitt was a borderline 1st round pick in most drafts.  He happened to be in a really deep draft.  JuJu fell where he was expected.

[warfelg]

5 minutes ago, jebrick said:

Javis Jones.  Good tape really bad combine numbers. 

This is not just having a bad number here or there.  This is being the WORST OT AT THE COMBINE AT ALL LEVELS.  This is from a OT that was in the running for best in the draft class.  I did not say he was undraftable but his Pro day now becomes the most important day in his life.

Tuitt was a borderline 1st round pick in most drafts.  He happened to be in a really deep draft.  JuJu fell where he was expected.

Jones didn't have good tape to the level of those guys though.

Tuitt wasn't.  He fell to where he was because his final year of school wasn't good thanks to injuries.  JuJu actually fell a bit thanks to the combine.

[Armsteeld2]

Just now, jebrick said:

Javis Jones.  Good tape really bad combine numbers. 

This is not just having a bad number here or there.  This is being the WORST OT AT THE COMBINE AT ALL LEVELS.  This is from a OT that was in the running for best in the draft class.  I did not say he was undraftable but his Pro day now becomes the most important day in his life.

Tuitt was a borderline 1st round pick in most drafts.  He happened to be in a really deep draft.  JuJu fell where he was expected.

Jones was a pass rushing OLB whereas Brown is an OT.  All he has to do is retreat while pass blocking and drive and get to the 2nd level on run plays.  There won't be many plays where an OT is running 30 yards downfield.  

Also Tuitt fell more to injury rather than talent level of the draft.

[jebrick]

Jones had good tape but the system helped him out.

you can try and whitewash the combine numbers but they are done for a reason.  Ignore that OBjr was the worst OT at the combine at all levels and it will come back to bite you. He was the worst Olineman in the tests at the combine.  Let that sink in.  worst than any OG or OC tested.   He is a day three pick in my book.

 

There are tests that are looking for explosiveness.  BJ, VJ and 10yard split.  He was horrible at all of them.  Danial McCullers showed more explosiveness than Brown!

[warfelg]

These days allow you to see things so that you can either support or refute things you saw on tape.

 

Let's take Jarvis for example.  He was in a good scheme that helped OLB's make numbers.  He got a ton of scheme sacks as opposed to talent sacks.  His combine then being a poor combine highlighted the weaknesses and put the tape even into more perspective.  So numbers based on scheme with a bad tape is a bad thing.

But on the flip looking at Orlando Jr, his tape doesn't scare me.  His combine drills looked ok to me.  What the 40, bench, and vert tells me is he needs to get into my teams program.  He needs a proper nutrition program and steady weight training.  In drills his hips moved fluid enough, he moved his feet well.

You know what important? 0 sacks allowed last year.  0 sacks allowed to bull rushing as a LT starter.

Need I remind you this guy was one of the better OT's in the NFL at one time:

[Chieferific]

Not cool.