Browns trade Danny Shelton to the Patriots

[the lone star]

Patriots will win this trade. Browns should use the 3rd to get a DT or something now.

[Soko]

5 hours ago, buno67 said:

He has played his entire career for the Rams. He was a DT in the 4-3. This past season, Rams moves to the 3/4 and he was playing both NT and DE

4-3 defenses use nose tackles. 

When Williams was with the Rams, Brockers wasn’t acting as a penetrator. Not sure why you’d make the claim that a Williams defense never used nose tackles when that’s what Brockers essentially was.

[buno67]

10 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

4-3 defenses use nose tackles. 

When Williams was with the Rams, Brockers wasn’t acting as a penetrator. Not sure why you’d make the claim that a Williams defense never used nose tackles when that’s what Brockers essentially was.

4/3 defenses do not use nose tackles. They primarily use their DTs as an Under Technique or over technique. One is playing the 3 tech over the guard  and the other playing a 1 tech over the opposite side of the Center. 

A coach might use a NT or a zero technique by having a guy head up over the center in a certain package. Utilizing that kind of alighnment full time in a 4/3 is ignorant because you literally leave gapw accounted for or you are playing extremely unsound defense with zero gap integraty. 

The pentrating doesn’t mean he is playing 4-5 yards deep in the backfield, just means they are being aggressive and not just eating blocks and taking up space

[Soko]

19 minutes ago, buno67 said:

4/3 defenses do not use nose tackles.

Yes they do. Multiple current and past defenses have. 

19 minutes ago, buno67 said:

They primarily use their DTs as an Under Technique or over technique. One is playing the 3 tech over the guard  and the other playing a 1 tech over the opposite side of the Center. 

And the basic over and under fronts have nose tackles. They’re just lined up a shade off the ball in most formations. 

19 minutes ago, buno67 said:

A coach might use a NT or a zero technique by having a guy head up over the center in a certain package. Utilizing that kind of alighnment full time in a 4/3 is ignorant because you literally leave gapw accounted for or you are playing extremely unsound defense with zero gap Integrity.

Using any alignment full time is unsound. Who ever said anything about full time?

19 minutes ago, buno67 said:

The pentrating doesn’t mean he is playing 4-5 yards deep in the backfield, just means they are being aggressive and not just eating blocks and taking up space

Eating blocks and taking space is what Brockers was pretty much known for. It’s what Poe did for Atlanta this year. It’s what Branch/Wilfork (later) did for NE. It’s what Dareus did for Buffalo and Jacksonville. It’s what Damon Harrison does for NY.  It’s what Linval Joseph does for Minnesota. There are multiple examples of 4-3 defenses with a NT, and Brockers was one of them.

[buno67]

7 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

Yes they do. Multiple current and past defenses have. 

And the basic over and under fronts have nose tackles. They’re just lined up a shade off the ball in most formations. 

Using any alignment full time is unsound. Who ever said anything about full time?

Eating blocks and taking space is what Brockers was pretty much known for. It’s what Poe did for Atlanta this year. It’s what Branch/Wilfork (later) did for NE. It’s what Dareus did for Buffalo and Jacksonville. It’s what Damon Harrison does for NY.  It’s what Linval Joseph does for Minnesota. There are multiple examples of 4-3 defenses with a NT, and Brockers was one of them.

You rarely see 4/3 defenses, using NTs (meaning a guy heads up over the center). You are leaving a huge weakness to one side of your defense and you are putting your LBs into an extremely predictable concept, unless your defense. Only way they are doing something like that is if they are planning to stunt but you are revealing your hand. 

Over Under Fronts just determined how you set your defense to the strength. It usually determines the location of the 3Tech. If he is to the strength or away from the strength. It means the 1Tech is the opposite of the 3Tech.

We could be getting terminology mixed up. When I talk 4-3, I never label the  defender who is shading either the left side of the center or the right side of the center a NT. Some people, always refer to that defensive tackle as a Nose. I usually call them 1T (1technique) or UT (under technique) and 3T (3Techique) or OT (over technique). When I talk about a NT or Nose, I clearly mean a guy playing straight heads up over the center.

I cant speak for Poe. I know Branch and Wilford did it with the pats because they were true NTs in that 3/4. Darius was the same way with the Bills, this season the Bills switched to the 4/3 and he wasnt as effective, hence why they traded him. 

A lot of this talkis moot because it really only matters about Greg Williams style. In his system he wants the aggressive 1Technique. something Shelton struggled with 

[Soko]

@buno67

We’ll call it semantics, then. Guys like Harrison or Wilfork - guys that can really only play the 0 or 1 and space eat - I consider nose tackles. Dareus did it this year in Jacksonville, Harrison in NY, Wilfork in NE (he had a year or two in their 4-3 scheme). 

As you said it’s moot because we’re discussing Williams’ defense. My original point was that Brockers played essentially the role that Shelton would be in (0/1) and to my knowledge, there was never any rumblings about Brockers being a bad scheme fit. Although I’ll concede Brockers offers slightly more as a pass rusher, but I wouldn’t call him particularly effective at it. 

[RuskieTitan]

On ‎3‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 10:24 AM, goldfishwars said:

 

But at least they stockpile picks!!!