Talk Me Off Of These Players I'm High On

[Mox]

15 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

He literally will throw a pass into the dirt on 3rd and 5, then come out on the next series and sail a ball a yard over the WRs head.  He doesn't have the accuracy to be a professional QB.

Sounds like a rich mans Mitch Leidner.

[Tugboat]

4 hours ago, goldfishwars said:

I wish the Patriots were, we might actually see the occasional TFL. 

I think it'll be okay.  The Patriots have some other things they've done pretty well at least.  

It is harder to imagine a player like Warner really fitting the mold in New England though.

[Tugboat]

Anyone care to talk me down on James Washington?  I know he's not as tall as ideal, but he's got the arms, catch radius, and game of a taller guy.  He's built solid too.  Didn't run crazy well at the combine, but on tape he regularly runs by defenders and looks like he's got plenty of speed for what he does.  More than anything, he seems to have such a natural feel for adjusting on deep balls and awareness of where the defender is to really flatter the QB.  Just has a knack for understanding when to generate that window of separation.  He's gonna need plenty of work expanding his route tree and making him into a more versatile WR coming out of that system...but he looks to me like a Day 1 weapon as a deep threat, with all sorts of potential to grow into more in a real system.

[jrry32]

3 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

Anyone care to talk me down on James Washington?  I know he's not as tall as ideal, but he's got the arms, catch radius, and game of a taller guy.  He's built solid too.  Didn't run crazy well at the combine, but on tape he regularly runs by defenders and looks like he's got plenty of speed for what he does.  More than anything, he seems to have such a natural feel for adjusting on deep balls and awareness of where the defender is to really flatter the QB.  Just has a knack for understanding when to generate that window of separation.  He's gonna need plenty of work expanding his route tree and making him into a more versatile WR coming out of that system...but he looks to me like a Day 1 weapon as a deep threat, with all sorts of potential to grow into more in a real system.

IMO, he's a one-trick pony. If you're good with that, you're good with that. He has a very weird build for a WR, and he's a linear athlete. He's sluggish off the line, but that actually makes him more of a deep threat because defenders struggle to time up their transition. It's kind of like Alshon Jeffery or Brandon Lloyd. They don't time amazingly, but they can really fly when up to speed.

[jrry32]

On 4/17/2018 at 7:35 PM, BleedTheClock said:

5. Kurt Benkert QB

"I still think he's a franchise QB. He's got every physical tool you need and lit up some of the best defenses in the country throughout his career. Not much talent around him, but he still spread it around the field and demonstrated elite potential. He was wildly inconsistent and played poorly against some bad teams, but his good game tapes are spectacular. I thought for sure he'd be getting some late 1st round buzz as the process went along, but it appears that he's still entrenched in day 3. I think he's at least worth a 2nd round pick. Reminds me of Jimmy Garoppolo."

Garoppolo? I think you're miles off on that comparison. I think best case scenario for him is Jay Cutler. I think a more realistic scenario is Derek Anderson or Zach Mettenberger.

[Tugboat]

29 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

IMO, he's a one-trick pony. If you're good with that, you're good with that. He has a very weird build for a WR, and he's a linear athlete. He's sluggish off the line, but that actually makes him more of a deep threat because defenders struggle to time up their transition. It's kind of like Alshon Jeffery or Brandon Lloyd. They don't time amazingly, but they can really fly when up to speed.

He does really seem to lull defenders to sleep off the line a lot of the time and he isn't the twitchiest athlete in the world.  I suppose it could be convenience in the way he builds up speed that allows him to excel in that, but it seems to me like there's more to it.  I think i've seen enough flashes of him using deceptive variance in speed to separate later in the rare instances he runs other routes as well.  It is tough though, because he is very much a 1-trick pony in that offense.  He's going to have to learn to run more than like 3 routes at the next level.    It's a tick he's really good at though, and one that i think should be applicable from the get-go.

I guess it probably just comes down to me thinking he has the traits to develop a lot more to his game when he's actually asked to.  Based on the way he seems to have that natural feel for working off the coverage.  Whereas i'm less sold on DJ Chark doing so, and others seem a lot higher on him.

Just seems every time i've gone back to try to figure out what on earth some folks like so much about Mason Rudolph, i just come away thinking Washington really flatters him instead, making things a lot easier for him.

[jrry32]

17 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

He does really seem to lull defenders to sleep off the line a lot of the time and he isn't the twitchiest athlete in the world.  I suppose it could be convenience in the way he builds up speed that allows him to excel in that, but it seems to me like there's more to it.  I think i've seen enough flashes of him using deceptive variance in speed to separate later in the rare instances he runs other routes as well.  It is tough though, because he is very much a 1-trick pony in that offense.  He's going to have to learn to run more than like 3 routes at the next level.    It's a tick he's really good at though, and one that i think should be applicable from the get-go.

I guess it probably just comes down to me thinking he has the traits to develop a lot more to his game when he's actually asked to.  Based on the way he seems to have that natural feel for working off the coverage.  Whereas i'm less sold on DJ Chark doing so, and others seem a lot higher on him.

Just seems every time i've gone back to try to figure out what on earth some folks like so much about Mason Rudolph, i just come away thinking Washington really flatters him instead, making things a lot easier for him.

I don't think he does. But in the right scheme, that's no big deal. He can focus on vertical routes and run routes that work off of the vertical routes. My issue with him is twofold: 1) he's sluggish off the line, and 2) he's tightly wound in the hips. I don't think he's ever going to excel at creating separation on routes with hard breaks, and I don't see him being a phenomenal WR in the short range passing game. But I do think he can do quite well in the intermediate and deep ranges. You just need a vertical offense that will use his skill-set.

[Tugboat]

2 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

I don't think he does. But in the right scheme, that's no big deal. He can focus on vertical routes and run routes that work off of the vertical routes. My issue with him is twofold: 1) he's sluggish off the line, and 2) he's tightly wound in the hips. I don't think he's ever going to excel at creating separation on routes with hard breaks, and I don't see him being a phenomenal WR in the short range passing game. But I do think he can do quite well in the intermediate and deep ranges. You just need a vertical offense that will use his skill-set.

Fair enough.  I think you're right in that he's probably never going to magically develop into an amazing high volume short possession game target.  The suddenness isn't really there.  I do still think he has the catch radius, big body and awareness of angles and defenders to get create enough separation in tight quarters, to at least be somewhat serviceable in that regard.  Sorta tilting what he does so well vertically in a lateral plane.  Some brief flickers of doing just that (in scramble mode i've seen it at least).  If you're building an offense looking for that guy though, he's probably not so appealing because it requires some ambitious projection, and he's not ever going to be a stud in that.  That is a potentially big limitation i suppose, for certain teams/schemes that want to emphasize that element.

[SteelKing728]

Of all the top DTs, I think Taven Bryan has the lowest ceiling. I'd easily take Payne, Vea, Phillips and Shepard over him.

[BleedTheClock]

9 hours ago, Tugboat said:

Anyone care to talk me down on James Washington?  I know he's not as tall as ideal, but he's got the arms, catch radius, and game of a taller guy.  He's built solid too.  Didn't run crazy well at the combine, but on tape he regularly runs by defenders and looks like he's got plenty of speed for what he does.  More than anything, he seems to have such a natural feel for adjusting on deep balls and awareness of where the defender is to really flatter the QB.  Just has a knack for understanding when to generate that window of separation.  He's gonna need plenty of work expanding his route tree and making him into a more versatile WR coming out of that system...but he looks to me like a Day 1 weapon as a deep threat, with all sorts of potential to grow into more in a real system.

He's always covered. QB's will have to trust him to win 50/50 balls, because he doesn't uncover well at all. He doesn't have the quickness to separate from underneath press man coverage, so any easy cheap completions will be difficult to come by.

[MSURacerDT55]

6 hours ago, SteelKing728 said:

Of all the top DTs, I think Taven Bryan has the lowest ceiling. I'd easily take Payne, Vea, Phillips and Shepard over him.

I'm with you except for Phillips

[BleedTheClock]

1 hour ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

I'm with you except for Phillips

@SteelKing728 Was going to say the same exact thing. You can put RJ McIntosh on that list for me as well.

[Nastradamus]

On ‎4‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 9:35 PM, BleedTheClock said:

The opposite of my last thread.

Here are a bunch of dudes I think are going to be studs that go against conventional wisdom:

 

1. RJ McIntosh DT

"McIntosh has the size and speed to light up everyone he goes against. He is inconsistent with his motor, but when he's on, he looks like a prime Richard Seymour. His highlight tape is riddled with TFL's and QB pressures. He can split double teams, rush the passer with swim and rips, and bull right through OL. Yeah he needs to improve his consistency big-time, but on talent alone, he's one of the most talented football players in this entire draft class."

 

2. Anthony Miller WR

"A lot of people like him, but I keep seeing him mocked in the 2nd-3rd round. I have him as a top 20 player in the class. He runs elite routes, catches in traffic like a dude much bigger than he actually is, and has the speed and agility to separate from press coverage. He reminds me of Antonio Brown, but that comparison is obviously pretty rich in nature given Brown is one of the GOAT WR's. I expect him to become a consistent 1,000 yard WR in the NFL."

 

3. Marcus Davenport DE

"People aren't low on him, but I have him as the 6th best player in this draft class. He's got unreal potential and has by far the best singular pass rush move I've seen a prospect have in a long time. His ability to bull rush OT's is crazy. He's done it to everyone he's played against. Consistently violent and fast off the snap. He does need to improve his motor, where he's below average. Not a great run defender, but IMO, the best pass rusher in this class BY FAR."

 

4. MJ Stewart CB

"I have him as the 3rd rated cornerback and think he's a legitimate #1. While he lacks the physical traits of a true #1, his tape shows him locking down guys with vertical speed, quickness, and size. He can play press and off man, press and off zone. He's a great tackler and has excellent instincts. His long speed is questionable, but I only saw him get roasted once in at least 15 games of tape. I've watched a boatload of Stewart tape over the last two years. He might slide into the late 1st round IMO."

 

5. Kurt Benkert QB

"I still think he's a franchise QB. He's got every physical tool you need and lit up some of the best defenses in the country throughout his career. Not much talent around him, but he still spread it around the field and demonstrated elite potential. He was wildly inconsistent and played poorly against some bad teams, but his good game tapes are spectacular. I thought for sure he'd be getting some late 1st round buzz as the process went along, but it appears that he's still entrenched in day 3. I think he's at least worth a 2nd round pick. Reminds me of Jimmy Garoppolo."

 

6. Jerome Baker LB

"He's so talented. He's got elite lateral speed and unbelievable closing speed working downhill. He needs to improve his instincts, but he flashed the ability to do everything necessary to be a top-flight LB. He has the versatility to play any LB spot too. Can't imagine him not being successful in some capacity, as I fully expect his instincts to improve with time. He needs to play with better pacing to his game and not be so aggressive if he's going to be a WLB prospect. I think he learns how to do that and ends up being one of the better linebackers in the NFL."

 

7. Jester Weah WR

"Not sure why he's not getting more pub. He's big, fast, runs great routes, and catches everything. He also runs a full route tree in college and played in a pro style offense. He made some great catches while blanketed between defenders. He's also a great blocker. He reminds me of Hakeem Nicks coming out of North Carolina. Weah isn't a blazing fast WR, but he's fast enough with his size to be considered a potential future #1 WR."

 

8. Deon Cain WR

"This kid has legitimate #1 WR traits. He's big, fast, and supremely athletic. While he isn't a great nuanced route runner, he is seemingly always running open down the field. He glides past defenders and is capable of going up and getting the 50/50 balls. He does struggle some with dropped passes, but I don't think it's enough of an issue to push him out of the early 2nd round at the latest. He's one of the most talented WR's in this class and one of the few guys that could become a traditional #1 ht/wt/spd WR for somebody."

 

9. Akrum Wadley RB

"I usually hate small runningbacks that aren't fast, but this kid's vision and toughness make me overlook his lack of size and speed. He and Walton are both underrated, but I think more people are on the Walton bandwagon than they are on the Wadley one. Wadley's tough as nails and runs between the tackles better than any RB in this draft class. He knows how to twist and churn for the tough yards despite his size. He's also a very good pass blocker and won't need to come off the field in any situation. Poor man's LeSean McCoy."

 

10. DaShawn Hand DT

"Hand is a collegiate disappointment, but he's a freak of nature. With his size, he shouldn't be that fast. I don't want to call him Chris Jones because Jones had more flashes than Hand did, but on talent alone, Hand is a 1st rounder all day. His technique sucks and his effort has been questioned, but if you can hone in his skills, he's going to be a superstar as a 3-tech or even better, as a 3-4 5-technique."

I like your list. Davenport and Miller have been two of my bang the table guys and I have them similarly ranked. Teams are dying to find guys like Baker and Stewart is very slept on. I'm not a Cain fan at all and Wadley is only ok to me. Hand is worth the gamble at the least around the 3rd or so 

[Nastradamus]

1 hour ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

I'm with you except for Phillips

Phillips over Bryan for sure for me. Phillips has the second best DT tape in the class IMO 

[BleedTheClock]

Just now, Nastradamus said:

I like your list. Davenport and Miller have been two of my bang the table guys and I have them similarly ranked. Teams are dying to find guys like Baker and Stewart is very slept on. I'm not a Cain fan at all and Wadley is only ok to me. Hand is worth the gamble at the least around the 3rd or so 

Yeah Wadley got excellent grades from me in every areas other than ht/wt/spd. I usually hate the small dudes that aren't lightning fast, but something about Wadley strikes me as translatable. He runs so hard and has elite churning for yardage ability. Just knows how to twist and spin and fight for every yard on the field. Man I wish he were 15 pounds heavier or .1 seconds faster. I debated putting Wadley up here as I do have serious reservations about his size and lack of explosion, but his tape is excellent. I love his running style and admittedly, might be overvaluing him based on how much I appreciate his toughness.