Mind Character

You're right, to be fair Jim Harbaugh's 4 year run indeed built the program up to 8-5 and finally 12-1 his final 4th season before he left there. Indeed, although I'd argue sustaining winning program for 7+ years after that 1 overly successful Harbaugh year takes a strong culture program leader as teams change from year to year along with Stanford's recruiting challenges. He's more on the solid to good end instead of elite; however, he's a coveted college to NFL guy because of his ties to the NFL along with what trusted others have to say about his ability to lead. It's true though that Stanford hasn't taken the next next step, but he's sustained that programmed with a winning culture for a long stretch.

Lol. I'm glad that you're taking your internet vanquishing seriously. I promise that in time things will get better. Just keep your head up and the pain of vanquishing will cease some day in the future. Then you can once again run free in the internet streets once more.

The category I used was, "Some Elite Program/Culture Leaders with Situational, Creative, & High-Level Program/Culture-Building Prowess (Multi-year trends not just based on current record/success)" that was the title that proceeded the list of Urban Meyer, Dan Mullen, Chris Peterson, David Shaw, Matt Rhule, Matt Campbell, Pat Fitzgerald, and Lincoln Riley. The vast majority of the listed coaches would be categorized as falling under that category by people with football expertise both college and pros based on those coaches records of success as well as based on what trusted others have to say about their intangible skill sets. If you think it's an assumption to believe Dan Mullen, Matt Rhule, or David Shaw are Successful Program/Culture Builders/Leaders then it is what it is. Don't be mad at me because you're been vanquished.

Yeah I quoted that exact part of my quote prior to you doing so in the previous post. It's indeed a straw man, and you were unable to parse out my statement appropriately.

I said nothing about Nick Sirianni's personality so you're just alluding to a straw man. All I said regarding our past candidate list was: Indeed none were thought to be elite program/culture leaders based on: 1.) The Fact that none of them have a sustained record or really much of a record at all of being a winning Program/Culture Builder and Leader. All of my points about the previous candidate list were within the context of how we need an "experienced HC with a record of successful winning culture, program building." I then listed "Some Elite Program/Culture Leaders with Situational, Creative, & High-Level Program/Culture-Building Prowess (Multi-year trends not just based on current record/success)" That list included the " Urban Meyer Dan Mullen Chris Peterson David Shaw Matt Rhule Matt Campbell Pat Fitzgerald Lincoln Riley

You have know idea what you're talking about. I made my points thoroughly on why I didn't just "make judgments on 13 other people," how some beliefs are based on illusions of knowledge and false certainty while other things can be reasonably known to the extent that we can "know" anything via trusted others and/or indirect knowledge sources.

wth are you talking about. F-McCarthy... oh please no. So, you think it's unverifiable that Urban Meyer is an elite program or culture leader? That, I would have had to know him on a personal level in order to verify his intangible leadership? LOL. As human beings, we believe many things that we don't have direct experience with. Many of these things are based on the illusion of knowledge and/or the illusion of certainty. However, there are some things that can be understood through the transfer of knowledge and information from trusted others, knowledge sources, or acquired via indirect experience. I'm not just giving some hot take (my post is still long, nonquality trash though I agree).. I have family all around in the football business which is more than most. Although it wouldn't actually matter and means absolutely nothing the funny thing is that I've actually met and spoken with Urban Meyer, Dan Mullen, and David Shaw about leadership and building culture during my 18 years at Ohio State. I've also spoken with Northwestern's athletic director during those years about Pat Fitzgerald although I've never met him in person or had prolonged conversations with him. I've never met or spoken to Chris Peterson, Matt Rhule, Matt Campbell, or Lincoln RIley. My beliefs about their intangible leadership qualities are all based on 3 things: 1.) The evidence of their program building in multiple college programs (not Riley), 2.) What trusted others have to say about their leadership and intangibles, and 3.) What the players and people around their organization have to say about them. So, my post wasn't just some hot-take about unverifiable things. However, your post in response to mine was indeed pure poster fun hot-takesman emptiness posting just to feel good invalidating an opinion. The idea of "how we can know nothing about things we have no direct experience with ... and how when things that we falsely thought we knew about go wrong we improperly think it unverifies that which we never knew." would be an interesting point about human psychology if it applied or had more depth but it's fluffy.

Simply hiring a college coach would be the same as hiring a former NFL coach or successful offensive assitant. It's the type of college coach that matters to me; one that is an elite culture/program builder/leader. If you can get that from the NFL candidate pool, then do so; however as it's almost impossible to do so indeed we should look to college ball. Preferably this coach would have ties to the NFL game so their staff and transition to the pro game could be accelerated.

Ultimately, what's wrong with Baker is that he's not reading leverage, he's not reading the cues the defense is giving him, he's not reading the defense but instead predetermining where he's going to go with the ball pre-snap or having bad eyes. This is one example, but there are others that Waldman and others breakdown that a lot of us have noticed all year. I said when he was fired and have repeated it a lot since: "Ken Zampese's spends most of his coaching on training QBs eyes and how to read leverage on the defense." Zampese is known to obsess over it and drill it and develop it. He also teaches eye manipulation cues and how they should vary from formation and situation. He drills that as well. A lot of people have made the connection, but I'm telling you Zampese's departure and Baker's regression with his eyes What worries me is that which I worried about with Baker from the beginning and that is next level Anticipation throws. Anticipation throws require that a QB be able to clearly see how a defense is presenting pre-snap and post-snap development and the ability to pull the trigger with an accurate throw to a space that the defense cannot defend but the wide receiver can make a play on the ball with some catch space. No matter what happens with Freddie; we have to get a new QB Coach in here asap and it has to be an elite one.

You're right that he could go back to college after an unsuccessful NFL stint and still be wanted. You could be right in that Lincoln might leave OU, but the NFL's money advantage doesn't really exist anymore. Top NFL coaches make 7-12 million. Only Belichick, Pete Carroll, Jon Gruden, Sean Payton, Andy Reid, John Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin make at least 7 million. Most top coaches contracts are 5 years in length. Only the elite of the elite get contracts longer than 5 years. Currently, Riley makes around 6 million per year and is scheduled on a 5 year contract to make 32 Million total in salary. t's doubtful that Lincoln Riley comes into any franchise and gets paid more than that elite bunch though there have been Cowboys rumors that they could give him the 10 million dollar golden offer. If Jerry were to give him 9 million a year for 5 years that's 45 million. It's been reported that the OU Board of trustees will seek to up the money and term length of Lincoln's current contract to keep him from the NFL. That contract is thought to be a fully guaranteed 8 year contract length. He could leave but he might get more money in college due to forthcoming contract length and the stability. Will be interesting to see what it would take to get him to leave OU.

"He Gets Us." tbh, Freddie is a quality but not elite assistant coach.

In a million years, those guys aren't coming to the Browns without having full control, especially Saban and Dabo. Riley is a king in Oklahoma. He's not leaving that cushy job for Baker or anyone imo.

The Coach is the culture setter and visionary. That person needs to be a builder, elite teacher, and programmatic learning designer/administrator, and lead teacher. We need an elite Program/Culture leader Head Coach. The best ones in the football landscape are in college football due to the numbers of college programs. In the NFL, such coaches are few and far between due to a limited amount of positions and scarcity, as well as lack of a Head Coach training program for young coaches due to staff turnover. We just need a better coach and not some hot name coordinator.

We have to break free from the insanity of just going after the hot name coordinator that is not an elite program/culture leader. ----- I've made the point as have many others that last year's coaching search was at minimum a farce and at worst a travesty. We fired our HC 8 games into the season and had half the season to come up with a finalist list of candidates to interview. The candidates ended up being: 1.) Gregg Williams, 2.) Brian Flores, 3.) Matt Eberflus, 4.) Jim Caldwell, 5.) Kevin Stefanski, 6.) Dan Campbell, 7.) Freddie Kitchens, 8.) Requested to interview but did not formally interview Nick Sirianni. None for various reasons were thought to be elite program/culture leaders. All except for Gregg and Caldwell were inexperienced requiring a steep learning curve. It seemed clear post-search: John Dorsey likely wanted to hire a first time coach who couldn't challenge his power and/or gain leverage to fire him like Andy Reid in KC, and/or key decision makers saw Freddie as their guy early and sought to interview candidates closer to his level of recent coordinator experience. ----------- We have to buck two negatives trends in coaching hires/searches in the NFL if we're going to have any success going forward: 1.) We have to break free from narrowing our focus on seeking out the new shiny, hot-name coordinator as HC and assuming success as a coordinator will translate to success as a HC --AND-- 2.) We have to break free from the trend to simply hire NFL retreads just because they have NFL experience. Maybe we luck out b/c there doesn't seem to be the new hot shiny coordinator in the league so maybe we won't be fooled into those false hope hires. We need a proven elite program/culture leader head coach with the ability to hire an elite QB coach and OC.Likely, we'll have to turn our eyes away from the NFL when it comes to the HC position to get that culture leaders, but we can supplement that HC with NFL coaches on their staff to alleviate concerns. Some Elite Program/Culture Leaders with Situational, Creative, & High-Level Program/Culture-Building Prowess (Multi-year trends not just based on current record/success): Urban Meyer Dan Mullen Chris Peterson David Shaw Matt Rhule Jim Harbaugh Matt Campbell Pat Fitzgerald Lincoln Riley ---- Being a Head Coach is so much more than X & O's. The coach has to be a visionary, a tactician, a creative administrator of a learning program for human beings of a wide-variety of personalities and sensibilities, the HC has to be an elite worker, they have to surround themselves with creative genius, they have to command respect for daily progression through an engaging habit-training systematic program, and so much more. These HC's get paid multiple millions of dollars and don't have to step on the field of play so what sets them apart are their habits of thought and behavior, their analysis and problem-solving acumen, and their ability to lead/set an agenda for a big group of human beings who then feel compelled to follow through with the plan. We have the attractive talent that many coaches would love to coach. The candidates need to be able to prove that they can get an elite staff around them. We have to be able to finally get an elite program/culture leader HC... one that is elite at the things that make great head coaches even if they aren't directly calling defensive, offensive, special teams plays

Crap... my bad @cortes02 I didn't see that you already made "New Coaching search thread." To avoid confusion this thread will be the main "New Coaching Search Thread" and I'll rename the one I made to a One off Poll Thread and change the name of it

I didn't realize Cortes already made a future HC thread... I'll let this thread become a One off Poll Thread, change the name of it, so @cortes02 thread can be the main "New Coaching Search Thread"

I didn't realize Cortes already made a future HC thread already... I'll let this thread become a One off Poll Thread, change the name of it, so @cortes02 thread can be the main "New Coaching Search Thread" --------- I've made the point as have many others that last year's coaching search was at minimum a farce and at worst a travesty. We fired our HC 8 games into the season and had half the season to come up with a finalist list of candidates to interview. The candidates ended up being: 1.) Gregg Williams, 2.) Brian Flores, 3.) Matt Eberflus, 4.) Jim Caldwell, 5.) Kevin Stefanski, 6.) Dan Campbell, 7.) Freddie Kitchens, 8.) Requested to interview but did not formally interview Nick Sirianni. None for various reasons were thought to be elite program/culture leaders. All except for Gregg and Caldwell were inexperienced requiring a steep learning curve. It seemed clear post-search: John Dorsey likely wanted to hire a first time coach who couldn't challenge his power and/or gain leverage to fire him like Andy Reid in KC, and/or key decision makers saw Freddie as their guy early and sought to interview candidates closer to his level of recent coordinator experience. ----------- We have to buck two negatives trends in coaching hires/searches in the NFL if we're going to have any success going forward: 1.) We have to break free from narrowing our focus on seeking out the new shiny, hot-name coordinator as HC and assuming success as a coordinator will translate to success as a HC --AND-- 2.) We have to break free from the trend to simply hire NFL retreads just because they have NFL experience. Maybe we luck out b/c there doesn't seem to be the new hot shiny coordinator in the league so maybe we won't be fooled into those false hope hires. We need a proven elite program/culture leader head coach with the ability to hire an elite QB coach and OC.Likely, we'll have to turn our eyes away from the NFL when it comes to the HC position to get that culture leaders, but we can supplement that HC with NFL coaches on their staff to alleviate concerns. Some Elite Program/Culture Leaders with Situational, Creative, & High-Level Program/Culture-Building Prowess (Multi-year trends not just based on current record/success): Urban Meyer Dan Mullen Chris Peterson David Shaw Matt Rhule Matt Campbell Pat Fitzgerald Lincoln Riley ---- Being a Head Coach is so much more than X & O's. The coach has to be a visionary, a tactician, a creative administrator of a learning program for human beings of a wide-variety of personalities and sensibilities, the HC has to be an elite worker, they have to surround themselves with creative genius, they have to command respect for daily progression through an engaging habit-training systematic program, and so much more. These HC's get paid multiple millions of dollars and don't have to step on the field of play so what sets them apart are their habits of thought and behavior, their analysis and problem-solving acumen, and their ability to lead/set an agenda for a big group of human beings who then feel compelled to follow through with the plan. We have the attractive talent that many coaches would love to coach. The candidates need to be able to prove that they can get an elite staff around them. We have to be able to finally get an elite program/culture leader HC... one that is elite at the things that make great head coaches even if they aren't directly calling defensive, offensive, special teams plays

I'm not confident that we'll win 5 more games at all; however, I do think it's more likely than not given the quality of opponents. We lost by 5 and were a few timely conversions or redzone attempts away from winning that game by a fair margin. Just based on the number of at bats we have yet to see; percentages-wise I'm sure we stumble into or connect on some swings going forward. Teams with talent like ours don't ever go fully in the tank, especially against the opponent combination of Bad team+ Bad young QB. It's just the odds and averages suggest that while we'll suck and continue to disappoint we'll likely have success with multiple consecutive swings at the plate against poor quality opponents. I wish it was the case that we'd only win 3-4 more so we can make the right adjustments to the team, but I believe we'll do just enough to justify the powers that be maintaining the status quo.

The Ravens model of 3 TEs that can all run-block at a high level, pass-block at a high level, and catch the ball at a high level is the model we should be seeking out and one that Baker's skills would synergize with.

I don't know man. I hope you're right. I just really doubt that Freddie gets fired if we win 7 based on our losing/hiring history, and I still think we get to the 7 win benchmark based on the quality of QBs and/or teams we play (Brandon Allen was an unknown and incorrectly assumed to be of poor quality; Mason Rudolph is a known bad QB). Going 5-3 the rest of the way isn't a certainty but it's highly probable. I'm right there with you on being skeptical of starting from scratch, especially after our coaching search this last time. I wonder if the Haslams and their search firms assist Dorsey this time because his beyond lackluster candidate list last time even after having a head-start on the coaching search process was terrible. Maybe we luck out b/c there doesn't seem to be the new hot shiny coordinator in the league so maybe we won't be fooled into those false hope hires. We need a proven elite program/culture leader head coach with the ability to hire an elite QB coach and OC. We'll have to turn our eyes away from the NFL when it comes to the HC position, but we can supplement that HC with NFL coaches on their staff to alleviate concerns. Let's hope we can figure it out.

The worst thing about this season to me going forward is that beating the Dolphins and Steelers and Bengals saves Freddie from being fired and prevents us from making the necessary changes. I'd rather lose more games so that we can hire the right coach rather then us linger along with the wrong guy and culture.

Taking away Freddie's OC duties is I'm afraid going to be the saving grace that protects Freddie from being replaced allowing us to limp into year 2 with a HC that's not the program/culture leader we need.

Unbelievable implosion and self-sabotage.

Having Freddie give up play-calling to focus on HC duties doesn't due much for us as he's not a culture or program leader. I find myself hoping we lose enough so that Freddie can be replaced, but fearing that even with the losing Freddie will still be our HC headed into next year. For our next hire, I actually would like to go back to the College ranks to a Head Coaches that are elite program/culture leaders. Matt Rhule has transformed and changed cultures everywhere he goes from Temple to Baylor. He's also attuned to having cutting edge offensive and defensive schemes around him. If only we could get Urban Meyer in here just to set a tone culture wise that could be infectious in our locker room of alpha personality types. Rhule/Meyer 2021. Let's do it.