LeeEvans Posted June 17, 2018 Author Share Posted June 17, 2018 24 minutes ago, Oregon Ducks said: Nigeria was terrible. I was expecting more. You shouldn't have been. That's exactly what they got to the WC on. They'll be same in the rest of their matches. They've basically got three attacking players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Ducks Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, LeeEvans said: You shouldn't have been. That's exactly what they got to the WC on. They'll be same in the rest of their matches. They've basically got three attacking players. For some reason, I keep expecting CAF teams to take big steps forward in international play...that's not happening even though they have more players in better leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kempus Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 hour ago, LeeEvans said: Agree to not agree at all. It mearly comes down to personal preference at this point. To me, Ronaldo is the GOAT, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeEvans Posted June 17, 2018 Author Share Posted June 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, Oregon Ducks said: For some reason, I keep expecting CAF teams to take big steps forward in international play...that's not happening even though they have more players in better leagues. Sorry if my response came across way more rude than intended. Nigeria seems like one of those teams where people expect them to take a leap every tournament and they never do. This is probably the worst Nigeria team in a decade. They're negative and don't really get forward much. If Moses cant create something they're basically useless going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeEvans Posted June 17, 2018 Author Share Posted June 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, kempus said: It mearly comes down to personal preference at this point. To me, Ronaldo is the GOAT, though. I agree that it all depends on everyone's one taste. They're both incredible and frankly that game against Spain was a ton of fun to watch. I think I like Messi because hes involved in everything more, for Argentina and Barca. He just always seems to be the driving force to the sides hes in. Ronaldo does extremely important things in matches but usually hes a little less influential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kempus Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, LeeEvans said: I agree that it all depends on everyone's one taste. They're both incredible and frankly that game against Spain was a ton of fun to watch. I think I like Messi because hes involved in everything more, for Argentina and Barca. He just always seems to be the driving force to the sides hes in. Ronaldo does extremely important things in matches but usually hes a little less influential. Perhaps, but the most important thing in football is goals and Ronaldo is a goal machine (not that Messi isnt). Ronaldo is more of a flat out winner, in my opinion. He's done it at multiple clubs and on the International stage. Messi has had multiple chances to do it Internationally, but has choked every time. Messi also hasn't proved it outside of Barcleona, which will always have a small asterisk, imo. Ronaldo could play for any team, in any style of play and still be a superstar. We will never know for Messi as every team is built around him. They're literally 1A and 1B, but I would take Ronaldo, of the two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drd23 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 6 hours ago, LeeEvans said: They also keep referring to Mario Mandzukic as a wide player for Juventus and are acting like playing up top is some weird experience for him. TBF the 3 or 4 times I've seen Juve in the UCL in the last year or two he has been playing out wide (particularly on the left). The second part is flat out wrong though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeEvans Posted June 17, 2018 Author Share Posted June 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, drd23 said: TBF the 3 or 4 times I've seen Juve in the UCL in the last year or two he has been playing out wide (particularly on the left). The second part is flat out wrong though Yeah its definitely not wrong that he has played there, which frankly is a weird position to play him, but if you ask anyone what his position is everyone will say forward. Fox is pretty bad with their coverage but it just surprised me because a lot of their comments were incorrect and you could tell that they just didnt do basic research, particularly with Nigeria, and didnt really know much about the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drd23 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Also I agree with @PAW in thinking that Messi had on okay game by his standards, even when you take away his terrible penalty. Messi had the ball so much because he makes it that way. The system yet again has basically devolved to "just give the ball the Messi", which results in him trying to do too much. There were numerous times where he could have passed to players in good positions but instead kept dribbling, only to lose the ball in some way. The fact that nobody has ever managed to create a system for Argentina where a combination of more than two of Messi, Di Maria, Aguero, Higuain and Dybala can actually play together is just as much of an indictment on the players, including Messi, as it is on those coaches imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drd23 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 minute ago, LeeEvans said: Fox is pretty bad with their coverage but it just surprised me because a lot of their comments were incorrect and you could tell that they just didnt do basic research We must get the generic FIFA English broadcast because for all the games except the Australia-France game (where we had our maybe 5th best play-by-play soccer commentator and an ex-CB who isn't the brightest), we've had a single English commentator - guys like Martin Tyler, Ian Darke etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeEvans Posted June 17, 2018 Author Share Posted June 17, 2018 11 minutes ago, drd23 said: Also I agree with @PAW in thinking that Messi had on okay game by his standards, even when you take away his terrible penalty. Messi had the ball so much because he makes it that way. The system yet again has basically devolved to "just give the ball the Messi", which results in him trying to do too much. There were numerous times where he could have passed to players in good positions but instead kept dribbling, only to lose the ball in some way. The fact that nobody has ever managed to create a system for Argentina where a combination of more than two of Messi, Di Maria, Aguero, Higuain and Dybala can actually play together is just as much of an indictment on the players, including Messi, as it is on those coaches imo That's an interesting take and not one I disagree with. I dont think Messi was amazing today but I definitely wouldn't say he was poor. Argentina are an incredibly interesting side because of how completely dysfunctional they are. No one seems to show any initiative or creativity and just slide simple passes to Messi and hope he just does something magical. I've said it plenty in this thread but I really believe not having a talented passer in the side hurts Argentina. They rely on Messi to not only dribble and penetrate the defense but also be the one to distribute the ball and hes so often left trying to do everything. Its hard to tell if this is because of him wanting to take control of the team or because Argentina is so poor but I suspect it's probably a case of both. I feel bad for Messi because it seems like no one else wants to dribble at players or make any sort of positive play on the ball but it's hard to tell who or what created that dynamic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 hour ago, LeeEvans said: I agree that it all depends on everyone's one taste. They're both incredible and frankly that game against Spain was a ton of fun to watch. I think I like Messi because hes involved in everything more, for Argentina and Barca. He just always seems to be the driving force to the sides hes in. Ronaldo does extremely important things in matches but usually hes a little less influential. I think Messi is better at its not even close tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kempus Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 11 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said: I think Messi is better at its not even close tbh. You're opinion is literally irrelevant if you think its 'not even close'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drd23 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 2 hours ago, LeeEvans said: No one seems to show any initiative or creativity and just slide simple passes to Messi and hope he just does something magical. I've said it plenty in this thread but I really believe not having a talented passer in the side hurts Argentina. They rely on Messi to not only dribble and penetrate the defense but also be the one to distribute the ball and hes so often left trying to do everything. Its hard to tell if this is because of him wanting to take control of the team or because Argentina is so poor but I suspect it's probably a case of both. I feel bad for Messi because it seems like no one else wants to dribble at players or make any sort of positive play on the ball but it's hard to tell who or what created that dynamic. Banega is a pretty creative passer - he averages almost the same number of key passes per game in La Liga that Messi (and Kroos for that matter) does - 2.1 vs 2.4 according to WhoScored. Di Maria is more than capable of dribbling at and beating players, particularly from the left. Neither of these guys do this for Argentina very often. Whether its a case of them being instructed to just give the ball to Messi, Messi demanding the ball or them willingly doing it and expecting some Messi magic, it still comes down to Lionel. None of this is to say that Messi isn't an absolutely brilliant player who is in the conversation for GOAT, just that I believe that Argentina's failure to win any silverware while Messi has been in the team is partly because of him, not in spite of him as many believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 7 hours ago, kempus said: You're opinion is literally irrelevant if you think its 'not even close'. Ok bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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