Mind Character Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 ***I'm assuming all posts/threads on the old version of the forum will be deleted soon after 8/12. With that in mind, I'm reposting this thread topic here as the topic will likely be relevant for future discussion. If this is out of line, my apologies to the mods******* The 2018 Non-QB Class Wanted to start a thread for info and discussion on next year's non-QBs. Already started a thread on the QBs and saw people started to post about non-QBs in that thread so I thought a different thread could be started for those guys since QB discussion will take on it's own life in that thread and the talk on other non-QB prospects could be lost/paged. Let the discussion begin!!! --------------------- Quick Hitters: 1. Derwin James is not the player people are talking about him as and is not the top safety prospect in the next draft based on play thus far........ He is an amazing defensive prospect in his own right however. He's being heralded as the best safety in the draft and/or the best player in the draft. He is not that. He's likely the 3rd or 4th best FS prospect in the draft; the number 1 SS prospect in the draft; however, he will likely be converted to a nickel and/or 43-Outside Linebacker when it is all said in done depending on who drafts him because he shined in the box LB role for FSU a lot. He comes with destructive intent to the ball throughout the game but he has a very very slow mental trigger as a deep safety in diagnosing the pass and the run. FSU used him to range in the pass too much at times and should just use him in the Jamal Adams box destroyer role. Even in that role his instincts and mental trigger are not as decisive and urgent as Jamal Adams; however, I noticed in watching 9 games that his instincts and urgent movement takes over when he plays the OLB position. ----------- 2. Armani Watts is the best safety prospect in the draft even considering in Derwin James as the number 1 SS in the draft and it's not even close; the clear number 1 FS prospect in the draft; is a higher rated FS than Malik Hooker; and is the best FS prospect (the most complete and with the best ability) in the last 13 years (since Sean Taylor in 2004). Few FS prospects have the run thumping violence Watts has along with range playmaking skills to disrupt the pass. Armani Watts also has elite quickness in his mental trigger in diagnosing the run followed by elite instincts in taking decisive angles to the ball destroying runners and underneath route receivers. He's special. He plays like a more destructive and forceful Jabrill Peppers in the run with the ability and instincts of Malik Hooker in the pass game. Does not have the ball skills or range of Hooker, but his skills in those areas are still very high and advanced. -------------------------- 3. Godwin Igwebuike and Jordan Whitehead are special FS1 prospects as well with Godwin possessing a better and more forceful all around game. I've been on their games since December. Godwin is a kamikazee destroyer in the run with elite hash to sideline movement explosiveness to disrupt the pass. He has it all in terms of a run defending pass disrupting FS prospect. Jordan Whitehead is more of a smooth athlete with some run support deficiencies, but his game in terms of ball skills and disrupting the passing game in the deep third is special. The Browns getting 1 of Watts, Igwebuike, or Whitehead at FS has the chance to change the secondary. I'm not as high on Igwebuike and Whitehead (I see them as top 20-25 first round talents), but I see Armani Watts as a top-5 player much like Hooker was viewed before this year's draft. He's the game changer. FS Armani Watts and SS Jabrill Peppers as safeties elevates our secondary to unparalleled heights imo. -------------------------------- 4. Minkah Fitzpatrick and Tarvarus McFadden are the best CB prospects I've seen since Patrick Peterson and both are likely to be even better than him. Mcfadden wins with length, elite calmness, and instinctual eyes and timing to make plays on the ball. He's a notch above even the prototype. Minkah is more of a scrappy and urgent mover with the ability to thump in the run, but also quickly mentally trigger onto receiver routes and make a play on the ball. He also has safety/nickel versatility. Both are top 10 guaranteed players imo. --------------------- 5. Adonis Alexander CB VaTech might end up being better than both Fitzpatrick and McFadden when it's all said and done, Jaire Alexander CB Louisville has the production but the tape shows he is not on the level of Fitzpatrick, McFadden, and also a notch below Adonis Alexander. ------------------ 6. I'm not yet seeing the special/rare AJ Green, Julio, Megatron WR1 prospect yet. Size and speed wise Courtland Sutton has a chance to be that, but he has to work on his hands and route running. Christian Kirk is a nice catch an run Golden tate type player but talk of him being a WR1 that can go out and get you 90 plus catches is overstated to me. He has elite speed and quickness and will be an impact number 2 player like Golden Tate and Randall Cobb when he's at his best. Deebo Samuels and Antonio Callaway show elite ball skills and separation ability at times. They will likely be early round 2 gems. -------------------- 7. This is the year of the elite safety and elite CB. Depth and Elite traits is there at the safety position from the number to number 7 prospect. Elite talent but not depth in talent is there at the CB position as the top 3 CBs have the ability to be the number 1 corners in the league early. ----------------- 8. We may find our Joe Thomas developmental replacement (if such a thing even exists) in the second round. Tackle class is looking like it will have a lot of depth. Skill wise it's not a tremendous class, but there are more players on the level of Cam Robinson and Jack Conklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 I missed your novels sir, welcome back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted August 12, 2017 Author Share Posted August 12, 2017 8 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I missed your novels sir, welcome back. New site....same old trashy posts from me...I have returned. LGB...just wait for what I have in store if we start winning as well as for next years draft prospects discussion...my goal is to overload and crash the new site b/c the servers can't handle my post length. I also have been known to post posts with disappointing girth as well... I'm considering posting a daily private message for you LGB...each the length of forum posts not yet known to man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 On 8/12/2017 at 5:49 PM, Mind Character said: New site....same old trashy posts from me...I have returned. LGB...just wait for what I have in store if we start winning as well as for next years draft prospects discussion...my goal is to overload and crash the new site b/c the servers can't handle my post length. I also have been known to post posts with disappointing girth as well... I'm considering posting a daily private message for you LGB...each the length of forum posts not yet known to man... actually this new site handles posts even better. I think they said the old site would only handle 15 posts a page, where the new one handles 25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie man Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I watched some more of Watts. I really like him too I get more of the Earl Thomas feel from him. I dont think he'll go too 5 because he won't have the elite athletic traits because of his size. But yeah I'd like him. I do think Derwin James could play FS so I disagree with you there. I do love Mincah and McFadden as fits for us. Go corner and FS with our top 2 picks and I'll be a happy man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 12 minutes ago, brownie man said: I watched some more of Watts. I really like him too I get more of the Earl Thomas feel from him. I dont think he'll go too 5 because he won't have the elite athletic traits because of his size. But yeah I'd like him. I do think Derwin James could play FS so I disagree with you there. I do love Mincah and McFadden as fits for us. Go corner and FS with our top 2 picks and I'll be a happy man. Yeah..man...I'm not sure what Armani Watts athletic testing numbers will be, but you could definitely be right. You're also right that he will likely not go top 5. I honestly think QBs go 1, 2, 3, and 4 as the Luke Falks/Riley Fergusons of the world will be to appealing when it's all said and done. So, this is the year where if you don't need a QB you'd want to be in the top 4 so you can trade down and take advantage of the talent at other positions. The QBs will go early and could push the supreme talent down even to the early teen picks even more so than this year's draft. He's is in my mind a hybrid of Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor in that he is bigger and more forceful than Earl a la Kam, but his instincts, ability to range, and on field speed rival Earl Thomas. For our sake, just like I was hoping Jamal Adams would run 4.7; I hope Watts runs slow as well b/c his play speed is all I need to see. He could be like a 4.55 guy that plays at 4.4 speed. Jamal Adams ran 4.5 at the combine but still went top 6. We'll see about Derwin James and FS. It's not necessarily that he can't play FS, but I think it would be a waste of his skills. I think he'd be a decent FS; but can be a top 2 SS or SS/OLB hybrid playmaker. His eyes and reading cues have to get better to be effective at FS. I think Peppers can range and play FS as well but just needs the opportunity so if we can pair Armani Watts or Derwin James with Peppers wiht our first pick and come back in get an immediate starter young CB like the ones mentioned...we'll have a major draft. Safety, CB, OL, WR, CB should be our first 4 picks...I'd go WR earlier but I just don't see the supreme talent at WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted September 1, 2017 Author Share Posted September 1, 2017 You know I got a list on prospects, LGB....always...and I was actually going to update the prospects thread this weekend when I had time to watch the final 2 WRs and 1 CB I wanted to see before the season gets going. In short, the clear cut blue chip WR1 top of the first round talents (possessing size, long vertical speed, explosive vertical leap and high point ability, supreme ball skills, spatial awareness, elite body control, great/natural hands catcher) don't seem to be available in 2018 which really really sucks...it seems like our need position never really matches up with the blue chip talent available. There are however 4 guys that may ascend to that WR1 level with question marks and some limitations a this point. 2 of the guys no one is even talking about yet (Gallup and Cobbs Jr.) They are: 1st round blue chip all around WR1 talents with question marks: 1. Auden Tate WR, FSU: Supreme Athlete with insane Jump ball ability. Not sure he actually knows how to run routes. Concentration issues...gives up on routes at times for no reason. Always strong to the ball. Shows some deep speed. One of the best redzone threats since Mike Williams and Calvin Johnson. Need to see a lot more this season. Doesn't always high point when he could...waits for the ball to come in. Needs to learn a lot about the position. Run blocking is not urgent. 2. Courtland Sutton WR SMU: Supreme body control. Elite in that category. Some of the best catches you'll see; some of the worst drops you'll see. Great vertical routes, but really poor intermediate route game thus far. Strong run blocker. Unbelievable stutter step route run move. Not strong to the ball in the slant game. Can't beat single high safety after beat CB as he runs the route into the Safety showing he doesn't know how or what to do in a pro route tree after beating the DB off the line. 3. Simmie Cobbs Jr. WR, Indiana University: Has everything except for elite long speed. Speed is good. Great combat catcher. Natural hands. Savvy route runner. Good run after catch. Natural receiver. Strong to the ball. Not the best getting out of breaks especially on outs and comebacks (could've been due to injury as he looked gimpy at times). Concentration issues. Competitive spirit doesn't run hot always. 2nd Round talents with a Supreme WR Skill/Ability (Vertical speed ability, catch and run ability (YAC), and/or Possession Combat Catcher): 4. Christian Kirk WR, TAMU -- Not as high on as others . People see him as a top 10 player...I say get the F out of here. He's a really good prospect though. I see Kirk as a less competitive, less combat catcher talented, not as good hands catcher, Golden Tate type. Unbelievable run after catch instincts and ability. Uncanny. Competitive and strong to the ball when attached to the ground. Rarely high points anything. Lets the ball get into his body. He does not attack the ball in the air well, but will take the top off the defense in a second and is a catch and run specialist. A great WR2 prospect with long speed, but is more of a Corey Coleman type than a WR1 do everything AJ Green type 5. Calvin Ridley WR, Alabama --- I like Ridley a lot but he's more Marvin Jones than blue chip WR1 than top 10 WR people are talking about. I am not as high on him as others. He's really good, but is not the WR1 everyone is making him out to be. He has great vertical stretch ability but is limited as a combat catcher, redzone threat, route runner, and "go up and get it" pass catcher. Smooth with supreme slant and comeback route running. Let's the ball into his body and doesn't high point. Steady and consistent ability to get open. Everyone's drooling on Calvin Ridely and comparing him to Amari Cooper. There not in the same stratosphere to me as Cooper was stronger, more polished route runner, far superior hands and on a different plane as a redzone threat. 6. Michael Gallup WR, Colorado St.--- combat catcher extraordinaire ----------------------- 3rd--5th Round talent with WR2 upside: 7. Deon Cain WR, Clemson -3rd 8. Jester Weah WR, University of Pittsburgh -3rd 9. Deebo Samuels WR, Louisville -3rd 10. Equanimeous St. Brown WR, Notre Dame -4th 11. Antonio Callaway WR, Florida -4th 12. Allen Lazard WR, Iowa St. -5th Later review (incomplete evaluation): Dante Pettis, Jauan Jennings, James Washington (Washington is so overrated in my mind based on limited exposure to 2 games).... -------------------------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted September 1, 2017 Author Share Posted September 1, 2017 Looks like my guy Simmie Cobbs Jr. is going off against OSU....special talent but has long speed concerns and injury issues.. I was hoping I'd be able to call him a sleeper at the end of the year but he's making a name for himself in the first game on a big stage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie man Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 11 hours ago, Mind Character said: Looks like my guy Simmie Cobbs Jr. is going off against OSU....special talent but has long speed concerns and injury issues.. I was hoping I'd be able to call him a sleeper at the end of the year but he's making a name for himself in the first game on a big stage... Good call on him i knew nothing about him but he definitely came off as a number one receiver I was really impressed. He had easy natural consistent hands with great size and a demeanor of a number 1 guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted September 1, 2017 Author Share Posted September 1, 2017 I messed up by posting in here yesterday...but I'm trying to shut this thread down in favor of candyman's general collegefootball/draft thread....I'm still trying to keep the stand alone 2018 QB thread open and active though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 7 minutes ago, Mind Character said: I messed up by posting in here yesterday...but I'm trying to shut this thread down in favor of candyman's general collegefootball/draft thread....I'm still trying to keep the stand alone 2018 QB thread open and active though. Seems dumb since we already got our qbotf, amiright @brownie man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie man Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Seems dumb since we already got our qbotf, amiright @brownie man? Yeah in all seriousness that thread is needed only for pure entertainment. We got our guy. I can understand how it's so hard to believe from our fans perspective it's been so hard to get one. But we've never had a young guy like this. We're good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 2 minutes ago, brownie man said: Yeah in all seriousness that thread is needed only for pure entertainment. We got our guy. I can understand how it's so hard to believe from our fans perspective it's been so hard to get one. But we've never had a young guy like this. We're good I am right there with you Brownie but I dont want to put the cart infront of the horse just yet. I believe Kizer will be the best QB from this draft but I dont want to get my hopes up just yet on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgpoun8017 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 I do love me some Armani watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie man Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 I think with Peppers playing free now it's going to be a couple things that determine what we think of going safety high 1. How did he do in the spot? 2. Is that his best position? 3. How did Kinndred do at strong? 4. Do we consider our safeties interchangeable? 5. What are we looking for in the safety next to Peppers? i think we will end up wanting a guy with more size next to Peppers. Im still beating the drum for Derwin James he's the closest thing I've seen to Sean Taylor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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