2019 prospects and outlook

[Bobby816]

23 hours ago, Rockice_8 said:

Carp hasn't been that bad.  C is the biggest OL priority I think.

Powell is now done for the year.  Good thing McGuire is coming back week 9.

Man we are getting killed with injuries right now.  Long may be out too.

Ya I can’t get behind Cannon as a NFL caliber player getting snaps really. We need a RB. Thank God McGuire is coming back. Long being out might be a blessing. Harrison should have that spot just on Longs bad snaps. Atleast try him out for a week. Maybe that’s what Long needs is something to motivate him. Bc he’s not playing up to his level. The agitating part for me watching us is the secondary. I was excited to see how Tru, Mo, Skrine, Nickerson, Maye and Adams were a secondary. And we haven’t been able to play with that lineup all season. Trubisky should have a field day

[Rockice_8]

3 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Ya I can’t get behind Cannon as a NFL caliber player getting snaps really. We need a RB. Thank God McGuire is coming back. Long being out might be a blessing. Harrison should have that spot just on Longs bad snaps. Atleast try him out for a week. Maybe that’s what Long needs is something to motivate him. Bc he’s not playing up to his level. The agitating part for me watching us is the secondary. I was excited to see how Tru, Mo, Skrine, Nickerson, Maye and Adams were a secondary. And we haven’t been able to play with that lineup all season. Trubisky should have a field day

Why not?  He had shown a nice set of hands when given a few chances and he is exactly what you and many others want on offense an explosive playmaker.  Why dismiss him just like that?

I think he should be given a chance the rest of the season to see if he flashes.  

Edited October 25, 2018 by Rockice_8

[JetsandI]

26 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Ya I can’t get behind Cannon as a NFL caliber player getting snaps really. We need a RB. Thank God McGuire is coming back. Long being out might be a blessing. Harrison should have that spot just on Longs bad snaps. Atleast try him out for a week. Maybe that’s what Long needs is something to motivate him. Bc he’s not playing up to his level. The agitating part for me watching us is the secondary. I was excited to see how Tru, Mo, Skrine, Nickerson, Maye and Adams were a secondary. And we haven’t been able to play with that lineup all season. Trubisky should have a field day

Long has been battling with finger issue. 

[JetsandI]

48 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

How bad are Lil Jordan Humphrey's off the field issues?  Seems like a 1st round talent with a bit of a big mouth.  Didn't see anything like DUI's or abuse in his past.  I think we are forming a strong locker room with Adams, Darnold, Williams, Williamson, Lee, Q, etc.  Could be a flyer in round 3 on a first round talent if he falls.

I have been trying to find information about his off field issues scouts mentioned. Could not find anything.  I dunno but maybe he is surrounded by wrong people?  We have to wait until February or March to finally learn about his crap. ugh!

[Bobby816]

35 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Why not?  He had shown a nice set of hands when given a few chances and he is exactly what you and many others want on offense an explosive playmaker.  Why dismiss him just like that?

I think he should be given a chance the rest of the season to see if he flashes.  

I couldn’t disagree more. I think his hands are an issue. He lost the spot as returner bc of his hands. He had a couple nice plays last week yes... but this is my main issue with the Jets. That we try tricking ourselves into thinking we can get good production from these late round picks. McGuire is a better version of him and he still doesn’t even meet the level required to be a difference maker in this league. When we start spending valuable picks on guys that touch the ball is when we will start being good.

[Rockice_8]

22 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

I couldn’t disagree more. I think his hands are an issue. He lost the spot as returner bc of his hands. He had a couple nice plays last week yes... but this is my main issue with the Jets. That we try tricking ourselves into thinking we can get good production from these late round picks. McGuire is a better version of him and he still doesn’t even meet the level required to be a difference maker in this league. When we start spending valuable picks on guys that touch the ball is when we will start being good.

Returner and RB are two different things.  Can't compare his issues as a returner (which he's never ever done before) to pass catching RB which he excels at and made his mark in college doing.  He had a great out and up route for like 30+ yards in MIN.  He has the ability to be a pass catching threat.  When the ball was thrown his way he caught it, can't ask for much more out of him as a pass catching RB.  He is lightning with the ball in his hands and we have all consistently wanted that type of player on this team yet the second we have one you don't even want to give him a chance?

Edit: He had 4 catches for 69 yards last week in his first real action.  How is that not something worth exploring the rest of the season?

Edited October 25, 2018 by Rockice_8

[Bobby816]

12 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Returner and RB are two different things.  Can't compare his issues as a returner (which he's never ever done before) to pass catching RB which he excels at and made his mark in college doing.  He had a great out and up route for like 30+ yards in MIN.  He has the ability to be a pass catching threat.  When the ball was thrown his way he caught it, can't ask for much more out of him as a pass catching RB.  He is lightning with the ball in his hands and we have all consistently wanted that type of player on this team yet the second we have one you don't even want to give him a chance?

Edit: He had 4 catches for 69 yards last week in his first real action.  How is that not something worth exploring the rest of the season?

Bc he did most of that in garbage time

[Rockice_8]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

Bc he did most of that in garbage time

Ok so give him meaningful snaps this game and see if it carries over.  The guy has 6 targets on the year and caught 5.  Saying his hands are an issue doesn't make sense.

He didn't get any snaps in the first half so how can you hold that against him.  When he went out there he ran the right route, caught the ball when thrown his way and looked explosive on the field.  Just give him a chance.

I defended McGuire last year saying he was an excellent pass catcher and that he could be the 3rd down guy moving forward.  You said he didn't do anything to warrant that in the stat column now you are all excited about him coming back.  You could see with the small opportunities he did the right things and caught the ball when it came his way.  Cannon is the same thing and deserves touches (not in garbage time) to see if he's worth it.

You can say you don't think he's going to be anything more than a 3rd RB and that's fine but he should get a chance at least before you dismiss him.  

[Bobby816]

20 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Ok so give him meaningful snaps this game and see if it carries over.  The guy has 6 targets on the year and caught 5.  Saying his hands are an issue doesn't make sense.

He didn't get any snaps in the first half so how can you hold that against him.  When he went out there he ran the right route, caught the ball when thrown his way and looked explosive on the field.  Just give him a chance.

I defended McGuire last year saying he was an excellent pass catcher and that he could be the 3rd down guy moving forward.  You said he didn't do anything to warrant that in the stat column now you are all excited about him coming back.  You could see with the small opportunities he did the right things and caught the ball when it came his way.  Cannon is the same thing and deserves touches (not in garbage time) to see if he's worth it.

You can say you don't think he's going to be anything more than a 3rd RB and that's fine but he should get a chance at least before you dismiss him.  

I’m also basing this on his preseason snaps. He’s not a difference maker at all. He’s a plug in guy for a week until McGuire returns.

[Rockice_8]

Just now, Bobby816 said:

I’m also basing this on his preseason snaps. He’s not a difference maker at all. He’s a plug in guy for a week until McGuire returns.

You glossed over the part where you said the exact same things about McGuire last year I see.  Yet now can't wait for him to return as some savior all of a sudden.

You can tell exactly what he is after a few preseason games and a dozen NFL snaps, that's impressive.  Guess no players ever improved and must be good from day 1 or just cut it seems. 

We all want an explosive playmaker on offense and the second we get one the first thought is to not play him when the opportunity presents itself, amazing logic here at times.  

He might not ever be a full time starter and you could be right about him but closing the book on an talent like that is just awful development strategy.  Wonder why NFL teams pay all theses coaches for, they are a waste of money it seems.

[JetsandI]

Trenton Cannon had special team experience.  Elijah McGuire has similar skill set as Le'Veon Bell.

Just because they came from lesser school does not mean they can't handle NFL. With time permitted, both could make solid contribution to Jets. 

[Bobby816]

1 hour ago, Rockice_8 said:

You glossed over the part where you said the exact same things about McGuire last year I see.  Yet now can't wait for him to return as some savior all of a sudden.

You can tell exactly what he is after a few preseason games and a dozen NFL snaps, that's impressive.  Guess no players ever improved and must be good from day 1 or just cut it seems. 

We all want an explosive playmaker on offense and the second we get one the first thought is to not play him when the opportunity presents itself, amazing logic here at times.  

He might not ever be a full time starter and you could be right about him but closing the book on an talent like that is just awful development strategy.  Wonder why NFL teams pay all theses coaches for, they are a waste of money it seems.

I think neither is the answer. Hence why I say we need a difference maker. I see that in neither. But I do think McGuire offers a lot more than Cannon.

[Rockice_8]

11 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

I think neither is the answer. Hence why I say we need a difference maker. I see that in neither. But I do think McGuire offers a lot more than Cannon.

Where did I say he was the answer?  You said he wasn't an NFL caliber player which is what I called you out for.  He could be possibly be a nice 3rd down RB type or just be a 3rd stringer who can be counted on for an occasional wheel route and screen because of his big play ability.  Why not give a guy with speed a few touches a game this year and see what he can handle.

He very well could outplay McGuire and be the 3rd down RB moving forward who knows.  If him and McGuire play well down the stretch what is so wrong with Crowell, McGuire and Cannon next year.  This season is about development with Darnold and to see what weapons can stay and what needs to be upgraded.

[Bobby816]

2 hours ago, Rockice_8 said:

Where did I say he was the answer?  You said he wasn't an NFL caliber player which is what I called you out for.  He could be possibly be a nice 3rd down RB type or just be a 3rd stringer who can be counted on for an occasional wheel route and screen because of his big play ability.  Why not give a guy with speed a few touches a game this year and see what he can handle.

He very well could outplay McGuire and be the 3rd down RB moving forward who knows.  If him and McGuire play well down the stretch what is so wrong with Crowell, McGuire and Cannon next year.  This season is about development with Darnold and to see what weapons can stay and what needs to be upgraded.

I guess I just view McGuire AND Cannon way less than you. I do think McGuire is a lot closer to an NFL back than that of Cannon though. Crowell has shown he can play in this league, he’s just not a receiver, which is needed now from the RB position. We want Darnold to work? How about giving him some weapons. Late round fliers on guys like McGuire and Cannon don’t qualify as that for me. Sounds like they do for you (which is OK and I respect your opinion). We don’t have a choice but to give atleast 1 of them a shot for the rest of the season and see how they do. But ultimately I think they both fall short to be guys getting 10 touches a game to make this team better. How about we start drafting guys that touch the ball with valuable picks and then we can start seeing Darnold truly develop. 

[Rockice_8]

16 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

I guess I just view McGuire AND Cannon way less than you. I do think McGuire is a lot closer to an NFL back than that of Cannon though. Crowell has shown he can play in this league, he’s just not a receiver, which is needed now from the RB position. We want Darnold to work? How about giving him some weapons. Late round fliers on guys like McGuire and Cannon don’t qualify as that for me. Sounds like they do for you (which is OK and I respect your opinion). We don’t have a choice but to give atleast 1 of them a shot for the rest of the season and see how they do. But ultimately I think they both fall short to be guys getting 10 touches a game to make this team better. How about we start drafting guys that touch the ball with valuable picks and then we can start seeing Darnold truly develop. 

I agree and would consider a guy like Brown or Metcalf (despite his injury is becoming my favorite WR prospect if he comes out) slightly ahead of Brown.

I just don't view RB nearly as important as you do though.  Why can't either of them become the next James White or Tarik Cohen.  These guys are found in the 4th and later and become key pieces to a good offense.  I mean White is basically the go to guy on a great offense as a small pass catching RB who can't really run between the tackles.

Darnold has some pieces in place and this wasn't an issue until Q and Pryor went down with an injury.  I want to add a WR next year either in round 1 or round 3 depending on how the draft falls to boost this core.  I think Mac hit on a gem in Herndon and with a healthy Anderson, Q and maybe (Metcalf/Brown) would give us a stable young core to grow with Darnold for the next 6-7 years.

I think we can be fine with Crowell, McGuire and Cannon next year assuming one of McGuire and Cannon flash as a 3rd down back.  Only way that happens is by giving them a chance which was all I was saying, not dismissing them because they were late round picks.  Not saying they will both be good but we need to know this year if either is a keeper for that role next year which requires meaningful snaps.

I loved Chris Carson a few years back and wanted him.  He was a 7th rounder and has average over 4 ypc in a bad rushing Sea offense.  You can find solid backs in the mid to late rounds in nearly every draft.  Cannon has shown ability and should get a chance with meaningful snaps to see if he can be that game breaker we have been waiting for.