KellChippy Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 37 minutes ago, Non-Issue said: But it isn't just about getting to the QB. It's also about disrupting the play, throwing off timing, and forcing QBs into mistakes. It's like any other position. You have your marquee stats. But the position is always about more than that. Like a QB is about more than passing yards and TDs. A cornerback is about more than interceptions. You know? Right, but whoever gets to the quarterback faster is going to be more overall disruptive regardless of stats. Especially if you’re getting there faster from the blind side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KellChippy Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 22 minutes ago, theJ said: Agreed. I wouldn't disagree at all that edge rushers can get there faster. I don't know how you can possibly calculate an expected pts per position honestly, so i can't comment there. Where a great rushing DT helps is pushing the pocket and disrupting the QB's timing, getting his passing lanes, and also blowing up running lanes. A lot of the time this type of pressure will lead to sacks from the edge. If the QB can't step up because the DT is penetrating, then the edge rusher has a better angle and better chance to disrupt the play. These are things edge rushers typically can't do. It's a fascinating conversation. Because there's some hidden X/O's here that go beyond the traditional stats of sacks and pressures. @KellChippy I should clarify, it was a measure of the top five pass rushers in terms of I believe pressures at both dt and edge on average. The number was also only marginally in favor of edge. Not really sure how they measured pts for, but it was heavily in favor of edge. Seems hard to quantify though, and should be taken lightly. Dt: Donald, Atkins, Cox, McCoy, and Buckner. Edge: Bosa, Cam Jordan, lawrence, Von, Ingram. I agree it’s a good discussion because guys like Donald and Atkins are so effective they may be more valuable than an elite edge rusher depending on the rest of your front seven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flounch Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Non-Issue said: I fully expected Donald to become a 21 million per defender. What's an extra million a year at that point. The only thing that scares me is the amount guaranteed. That is a ton of guaranteed money for a guy who has 300 pound men falling around his knees on every play. And I have absolutely no doubt that the guaranteed amount was the sticking point in the negotiations. But Donald kinda had all the chips at the table. Hope this works out. I am thrilled. But I might also be a little nauseous during every defensive snap. What a freakin off season for my team. I mean, damn... that's one for the books. Let's hope what we have on paper carries over onto the field. LETS GO RAMS!!! You don't have to worry, it's not your money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 1 hour ago, KellChippy said: Right, but whoever gets to the quarterback faster is going to be more overall disruptive regardless of stats. Especially if you’re getting there faster from the blind side. That's not accurate. First of all, does your chart compare Aaron Donald with edge players in terms of how fast they get to the QB? Second of all, does it compare percentage of plays pressured? Pressure up the middle is more disruptive than edge pressure. It's easier to escape edge pressure. As we all know, Donald pressures the QB as much as anyone in the NFL. That's significant because pressures are where a pass rusher makes his mark. The best pass rushers put up 10 to 20 sacks a year. That's 10 to 20 plays out of an entire season. Those aren't where his biggest impact is made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KellChippy Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 1 hour ago, jrry32 said: That's not accurate. First of all, does your chart compare Aaron Donald with edge players in terms of how fast they get to the QB? Second of all, does it compare percentage of plays pressured? Pressure up the middle is more disruptive than edge pressure. It's easier to escape edge pressure. As we all know, Donald pressures the QB as much as anyone in the NFL. That's significant because pressures are where a pass rusher makes his mark. The best pass rushers put up 10 to 20 sacks a year. That's 10 to 20 plays out of an entire season. Those aren't where his biggest impact is made. This was comparing edge rushers to pass rushers in general and not specifically Donald. I’d imagine he had the best numbers of all players last year. He was the best by eye test. But how is edge pressure easier to avoid? It may be slightly harder to side step then step up in the pocket, but edge rush comes from the peripherals and from a wider variety of angles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 25 minutes ago, KellChippy said: This was comparing edge rushers to pass rushers in general and not specifically Donald. I’d imagine he had the best numbers of all players last year. He was the best by eye test. But how is edge pressure easier to avoid? It may be slightly harder to side step then step up in the pocket, but edge rush comes from the peripherals and from a wider variety of angles. It's easier to avoid edge rushers because you can step up and under the pressure. With pressure up the middle, you generally have to go backwards. And if the edge rushers are showing any effort at all, they should be there waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patriotsheatyan Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 This looks like a steal now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 This is so good Alexa play Despacito.. Donald should hold out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KellChippy Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 2 hours ago, jrry32 said: It's easier to avoid edge rushers because you can step up and under the pressure. With pressure up the middle, you generally have to go backwards. And if the edge rushers are showing any effort at all, they should be there waiting. In 2017 LAR gave up an average of 4.9 yards per play when Donald had one of his 70 pressures. Compared to Bosa’s 2.9 yards on 46 pressures. The top five edge rushers in terms of most pressures (sack, hurry, hit) gave up 3.1 yards per play when generating pressure compared to interior rushers’ 4.1. These are PFF numbers, but the only really subjective stat they use is hurries. Obviously yards per play is not the end all be all, but that is a pretty significant gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 8 minutes ago, KellChippy said: In 2017 LAR gave up an average of 4.9 yards per play when Donald had one of his 70 pressures. Compared to Bosa’s 2.9 yards on 46 pressures. The top five edge rushers in terms of most pressures (sack, hurry, hit) gave up 3.1 yards per play when generating pressure compared to interior rushers’ 4.1. These are PFF numbers, but the only really subjective stat they use is hurries. Obviously yards per play is not the end all be all, but that is a pretty significant gap. That's interesting. I'd be more interested in seeing passer rating over a longer period of time. Also, 70 pressures vs. 46 pressures is a huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KellChippy Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 19 minutes ago, jrry32 said: That's interesting. I'd be more interested in seeing passer rating over a longer period of time. Also, 70 pressures vs. 46 pressures is a huge difference. Yeah too small of a sample size, but proves Donald is in his own class. I’m thinking the yards per play is so high because teams expect him to get pressure often and account for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Issue Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 43 minutes ago, KellChippy said: In 2017 LAR gave up an average of 4.9 yards per play when Donald had one of his 70 pressures. Compared to Bosa’s 2.9 yards on 46 pressures. The top five edge rushers in terms of most pressures (sack, hurry, hit) gave up 3.1 yards per play when generating pressure compared to interior rushers’ 4.1. These are PFF numbers, but the only really subjective stat they use is hurries. Obviously yards per play is not the end all be all, but that is a pretty significant gap. But the obvious problem off the bat is correlation vs causation. There is a whole defense on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KellChippy Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 32 minutes ago, Non-Issue said: But the obvious problem off the bat is correlation vs causation. There is a whole defense on the field. I don’t know I think the rest of the Rams defense is pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Issue Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 16 minutes ago, KellChippy said: I don’t know I think the rest of the Rams defense is pretty good. Last year? Ehhhhh..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris00cm Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 14 hours ago, KellChippy said: I don’t know I think the rest of the Rams defense is pretty good. Dominique Hafield and Troy Hill started important games for the Rams last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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