REDandPEWTER Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 7 minutes ago, bucsfan333 said: To be fair, missing happens everywhere, all the time. And missing more often than not is the norm across the league. You don't see it have much effect with teams like New England and Pittsburgh because they have HoF QBs and good coaching. But they miss just as much as anyone else. I do agree about the philosophy part though. Licht, if retained, would find a HC with a similar mindset to him and we'd see more of the same types of guys brought in. The question then would be what differences there would be scheme wise on both sides of the ball. Missing happens everywhere. But we’re in an 11 year playoff drought. That’s the difference between us and the rest of the league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingone Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 1 minute ago, bucsfan333 said: To be fair, missing happens everywhere, all the time. And missing more often than not is the norm across the league. You don't see it have much effect with teams like New England and Pittsburgh because they have HoF QBs and good coaching. But they miss just as much as anyone else. I do agree about the philosophy part though. Licht, if retained, would find a HC with a similar mindset to him and we'd see more of the same types of guys brought in. The question then would be what differences there would be scheme wise on both sides of the ball. The question for me is what is the role of the GM for this organization. If the GM has limited input on the offensive and defensive philosophy of a team, then the GM s job is to acquire talent that the HC wants. That certainly was the relationship with Lovie. How much has that changed with Koetter, no clue. If the Bucs are looked as an underachieving team on the field, how much is that on GM or the coaching staff? The Glazers by their actions on Black Monday will give us the answer. I expect the Glazers to make their decision on Black Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Just now, REDandPEWTER said: Missing happens everywhere. But we’re in an 11 year playoff drought. That’s the difference between us and the rest of the league Well, yeah. We haven't had good coaching or anything worthwhile at QB. Which was my point. If we can hit on one or the other, Licht's misses won't matter. Just like they don't matter in New England and Pittsburgh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 1 minute ago, ravishingone said: The question for me is what is the role of the GM for this organization. If the GM has limited input on the offensive and defensive philosophy of a team, then the GM s job is to acquire talent that the HC wants. That certainly was the relationship with Lovie. How much has that changed with Koetter, no clue. If the Bucs are looked as an underachieving team on the field, how much is that on GM or the coaching staff? The Glazers by their actions on Black Monday will give us the answer. I expect the Glazers to make their decision on Black Monday. We've hired HCs and let them pick their GMs in the past, which (to me) would suggest the GM is more of a yes man and talent acquirer for the coach. The HCs have been who the Glazers have picked. Koetter was already here when he became HC so I don't know what the HC/GM relationship is now. And I have no idea how much Koetter getting the job was on Licht and how much was on the Glazers. If Licht survives and gets to start anew with everything, I'd imagine he'd have whatever input he wants. And that would make sense if the Glazers showed faith in giving him one last shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDandPEWTER Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 7 minutes ago, bucsfan333 said: Well, yeah. We haven't had good coaching or anything worthwhile at QB. Which was my point. If we can hit on one or the other, Licht's misses won't matter. Just like they don't matter in New England and Pittsburgh. You’re using successful franchises. THEY HIT more than they miss. That’s our problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDandPEWTER Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 I just don’t buy that Licht is a puppet. If he was he would have stayed in Arizona. I thought with Lovie being fired he obtained a lot more power than his original responsibilities. His ego to trade up for Roberto Aguayo May go down as the single dumbest move in nfl history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 5 minutes ago, REDandPEWTER said: You’re using successful franchises. THEY HIT more than they miss. That’s our problem. No, they don't. They have established QBs and good coaching. That's the only difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingone Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 15 minutes ago, bucsfan333 said: We've hired HCs and let them pick their GMs in the past, which (to me) would suggest the GM is more of a yes man and talent acquirer for the coach. The HCs have been who the Glazers have picked. Koetter was already here when he became HC so I don't know what the HC/GM relationship is now. And I have no idea how much Koetter getting the job was on Licht and how much was on the Glazers. If Licht survives and gets to start anew with everything, I'd imagine he'd have whatever input he wants. And that would make sense if the Glazers showed faith in giving him one last shot. Hard to say, if the power structure would change if Licht survives. The last HC search the fix was in and everyone knew it. McDermott already made a playoff appearance, so if you 're Licht you can point to the Glazers I can evaluate HC talent. Did he recommend McDermott and was over ruled? Who knows. I see more of a path for Licht possibly surviving, then Koetter and his staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDandPEWTER Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 14 minutes ago, bucsfan333 said: No, they don't. They have established QBs and good coaching. That's the only difference. Then Licht hasn’t done well bc he approved of the staff and accepted the bucs job knowing clearly Lovie was his coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Patriots 2017 - DE Derek Rivers, OT Antonio Garcia, DE Deartich Wise, OT Connor McDermott 2016 - CB Cyrus Jones, OL Joe Thuney, QB Jacoby Brissett, DT Vincent Valentine, WR Malcolm Mitchell, DB/LB Kamu Grugier-Hill, LB Elandon Roberts, G Ted Karras, WR Devin Lucien 2015 - DT Malcolm Brown, S Jordan Richards, DE/LB Geneo Grissom, DE Trey Flowers, G Tre Jackson, G Shaq Mason, LS Joe Cardona, LB/S Matthew Wells, TE AJ Derby, CB Darryl Roberts, LB Xzavier Dickson 6/24 in the last four drafts, excluding this most recent draft class. And only Flowers is really a great player. But they've got BB and Brady so it doesn't matter. I'm not gonna go through their FAs because they sign/cut dozens of guys every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDandPEWTER Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, bucsfan333 said: Patriots 2017 - DE Derek Rivers, OT Antonio Garcia, DE Deartich Wise, OT Connor McDermott 2016 - CB Cyrus Jones, OL Joe Thuney, QB Jacoby Brissett, DT Vincent Valentine, WR Malcolm Mitchell, DB/LB Kamu Grugier-Hill, LB Elandon Roberts, G Ted Karras, WR Devin Lucien 2015 - DT Malcolm Brown, S Jordan Richards, DE/LB Geneo Grissom, DE Trey Flowers, G Tre Jackson, G Shaq Mason, LS Joe Cardona, LB/S Matthew Wells, TE AJ Derby, CB Darryl Roberts, LB Xzavier Dickson 6/24 in the last four drafts, excluding this most recent draft class. And only Flowers is really a great player. But they've got BB and Brady so it doesn't matter. I'm not gonna go through their FAs because they sign/cut dozens of guys every year. Wins vs losses pal. Wins vs losses. Why keep the people in a losing culture ? Start over. New philosophy. New regime. We act as if it’s all coaching no player accountability. It’s both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 7 minutes ago, REDandPEWTER said: Wins vs losses pal. Wins vs losses. Why keep the people in a losing culture ? Start over. New philosophy. New regime. We act as if it’s all coaching no player accountability. It’s both. It IS wins/losses. Which is BB and Brady vs everyone we've trotted through. And we don't even compare in that sense. But drafting and FAs is a wash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDandPEWTER Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 30 minutes ago, bucsfan333 said: It IS wins/losses. Which is BB and Brady vs everyone we've trotted through. And we don't even compare in that sense. But drafting and FAs is a wash. It’s not just New England that gets it right. It’s about retaining the right guys. Cutting the right guys and drafting and signing the right guys. Licht has failed in all aspects and the W/L has shown. and we can’t excuse Licht of the blame for koetter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDandPEWTER Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 30 minutes ago, bucsfan333 said: It IS wins/losses. Which is BB and Brady vs everyone we've trotted through. And we don't even compare in that sense. But drafting and FAs is a wash. It’s not just New England that gets it right. It’s about retaining the right guys. Cutting the right guys and drafting and signing the right guys. Licht has failed in all aspects and the W/L has shown. and we can’t excuse Licht of the blame for koetter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 2017 - OLB TJ Watt, WR Juju Smith-Schuster, CB Cameron Sutton, RB James Conner, QB Josh Dobbs, DB Brian Allen, LS Colin Holba, DE Keion Adams 2016 - CB Artie Burns, S Sean Davis, DT Javon Hargrave, OT Jerald Hawkins, LB Travis Feeney, WR DeMarcus Ayers, LB Tyler Matakevich 2015 - OLB Bud Dupree, CB Senquez Golson, WR Sammie Coates, DB Doran Grant, TE Jesse James, DL LT Walton, OLB Anthony Chickillo, S Gerod Holliman Pittsburgh is about as boring as it gets. They don't trade much and they don't make many moves in FA. Their 2017 draft hit really well. Hargrave is pretty good and James is decent. Burns and Dupree start but could be replaced. Burns especially. They went 7/23 in these drafts, in terms of finding starters. And Burns probably shouldn't be starting, as he's lost and regained his starting spot. But Ben and Tomlin are good at what they do, so they win a lot of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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