The un-HYPEd Thread

[Lil' Shorty]

5 minutes ago, REDandPEWTER said:

I also look at the schemes koetter has run and how he’s utilized past rbs. Doug Martin was great in 2015 along with sims. mJd Stephen Jackson. So his scheme works with good RBs. 

 

Weren’t you just making a point about how we give up on players too soon?🤔

[REDandPEWTER]

13 minutes ago, Lil' Shorty said:

Weren’t you just making a point about how we give up on players too soon?🤔

Where did I say that? 

Donald penn was still under contract. 

Mason foster did not get signed for big money. 

Neither did mcdoguald. None of these guys were horrible starters for us. These guys were solid  

Barron you can make the argument yes, he was not a good safety. I did say maybe he could play LB but since we had Lavonte I guess I see why we traded him. So I’ll take that one back. 

For how fast R. Jones is he doesn’t run hard at all. He hasn’t even shown a flash of solid play. He’s been down right atrocious and can’t beat out an unathletic slow quiz Rodgers.  Come on now. 

[Buc Ball]

1 hour ago, ravishingone said:

Agree on any type of stretch running play, but there not even lining up on man blocking and moving the LOS especially on the  LOS.  Remember the QB sneak on 4th and 1 against the GMen.  Dotson crashes into Jameis knee only after absolutely the oline got zero push on the previous play on the goal line.  There are only 2 guys who show maximum effort on every play through the whistle, Jensen and Marpet.  The other 3, dlinemen are constantly getting off their blocks way too easily.  For some reason, Warhop accepts having one of his guards to be a finesse tackle kicked inside.  Is it any coincidence, the 2 guards that played when they ran the ball well was Mankins and Marpet?  Not at all because they were anything but finesse.  Keep in mind, they had an under sized center in Hawley playing.  Hawley was an arse on the field, and I write that with respect and admiration.  

Agreed. I think everything comes back to accountability. Warhop doesn’t appear to be holding these guys accountable for not playing through the whistle, badly losing one on ones due to poor technique and generally looking like they don’t care.

There are things we can do schematically to hide their weaknesses, but as has usually been the case with Koetter, the scheme is canon and can’t change. The players also need to do more to meet the coaching staff half way. Smith looks like a good OT, when he can be bothered. Bennenoch always seems to blow assignments and just needs to be better mentally.

I get the feeling Quentin Nelson was the plan going into last year’s draft and the trade back only happened becaue he was off the board. An interior line of Nelson Jensen Marpet would have been a solid foundation for a good, between the tackles running game.

We’re simply not set up for success offensively and that boils down to scheme. We just need to hope that the new coaching staff are prepared to adapt to the players on the roster, rather than force square pegs in round holes and expect good things. 

[Buc Ball]

52 minutes ago, YoungBucs15 said:

Also, I don't know if it was Aumen or Cummings who pointed out a stat for Jones that showed he had something like 44 yards and absurd number like 47 yards after contact.  Establishing the fact that he is most often getting hit in the backfield on a vast majority of his plays.

It’s an outrageous stat, but I think it’s partly down to Koetter being very open about RBs not being ready to contribute as blockers.

As a defensive player, you hear that, see Rojo in the game and assume run. It’s no wonder he gets hit in the backfield as often as he does.

[Caaddy24]

What makes it worse is seeing all these other rookie RB's tearing it up right now. I mean the Broncos got not 1, but 2 stud rookie RB's... 

[REDandPEWTER]

16 minutes ago, Caaddy24 said:

What makes it worse is seeing all these other rookie RB's tearing it up right now. I mean the Broncos got not 1, but 2 stud rookie RB's... 

Don’t argue dude. It’s not our RBs 

[YoungBucs15]

1 hour ago, REDandPEWTER said:

I also look at the schemes koetter has run and how he’s utilized past rbs. Doug Martin was great in 2015 along with sims. mJd Stephen Jackson. So his scheme works with good RBs. 

 

While i think any scheme should work if executed correctly, or else everyone would be running the same thing, I think it's either spending the time to find the pieces to make it work or mold a scheme around the players.  Same argument we said was holding Mike Smith back and look what we've done since we've simplified and allowed our players to play simple and fast.  

I just look at our running game period and started to compare Peyton vs Jones. 

Jones has about a single game worth of stats at this point in the season

44 yards 23 carries 1 TD / 6 rec 34 yards

Barber just comparing the avg of the last 5 games

60 yard (counting the 106 NYG game) 16 carries .5 TD / 1 rec 4.5 yards

And really the biggest tell to me is it's more OL with some scheme is the fact that most of these yards we get are from 1-2 runs. Here's stats for Barber without his longest run for those games.  I agree that I don't think Barber is a 1 either but just a disturbing trend when it comes to RB production in Tampa.

vs Saints - 13 atts 29 yards

vs Carolina - 15 atts 28 yards

vs SF - 17 atts 33 yards

vs NYG - 17 atts 78 yards

vs Washington - 12 atts 47 yards

While I agree this happens to some elite backs, I see it with Zeke but he doesn't' do it for the whole season.

 

 

[YoungBucs15]

1 hour ago, REDandPEWTER said:

For how fast R. Jones is he doesn’t run hard at all. He hasn’t even shown a flash of solid play. He’s been down right atrocious and can’t beat out an unathletic slow quiz Rodgers.  Come on now. 

This is the same Koetter that refused to give Barber more snaps because we were sticking a declining Martin, while he had the one rebound return year, the stubbornness to stick with someone that shows signs he doesn't fit anymore is almost a Koetter trademark at this point. 

[ravishingone]

 

[bucsfan333]

 

[Buc Ball]

40 minutes ago, bucsfan333 said:

 

Minter looked alright in the snaps I saw. He could definitely find a role on this team as the 4th LB once/if Beckwith is back.

We’re as good at finding TEs as we are bad at running the football, so no doubt Hudson will be the second coming of Cam Brate.

[REDandPEWTER]

49 minutes ago, ravishingone said:

 

Damn. Dallas with 9? Fire the line. 

[Lil' Shorty]

2 hours ago, REDandPEWTER said:

Damn. Dallas with 9? Fire the line. 

Zeek leads the NFL in rushing and Dallas as a whole is the #6 rushing team in the league. Peyton Barber is 23nd in rushing and Tampa is the #27 rushing team in the league. 

[bucsfan333]

Here you go, @ravishingone. We run pick plays to the sideline. 😂 But we actually did it.

[ravishingone]

23 minutes ago, bucsfan333 said:

Here you go, @ravishingone. We run pick plays to the sideline. 😂 But we actually did it.

Cool, they ran just as many pick plays as screens.  😉  Is it me or does it seem Smith, Benenoch, and Dotson always seem so high.  I know they are very large men, but I would think a little more knee bend  would keep them reaching so much and getting off balance.  3 more games just hoping no more major injuries at this point.