Trent Williams undergoing minor knee procedure

[turtle28]

8 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

I don't have 3-4 years to get him to that level though. I'd rather develop him and use him as Moses' replacement or as depth.

We do have 3 years. This year, next year and the year after. Trent is 30, we need to stop acting like he’s 35 because he gets injured and plays through injuries. 

I’m sorry, but what’s the difference if Christian is developing this year, next year and the year after behind Trent or Moses?

Regardless of where he’s developing, he’s going to be depth. I wonder if Ty Nsekhe will be back next year or not, I hope he is.

[Thaiphoon]

4 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Mid rounds, not early. I think that Norman will be gone and they’ll draft a corner in rounds 1-3. Then, they’ll draft a guard in round 2 or 3 and with our 3rd round compensatory pick and 4th they’ll take an ILB, OLB and/or QB to develop behind Alex and Colt.

Yeah, but we still need a Stud WR. We'd better find one in FA then

[Thaiphoon]

Just now, turtle28 said:

We do have 3 years. This year, next year and the year after. Trent is 30, we need to stop acting like he’s 35 because he gets injured and plays through injuries. 

We really don't Turtle. We have maybe at most 2 before we need to replace him. Trent has maybe one more year where he's going to play at this level. And even next year he may not play all 16 games. You want to start replacing these types of players BEFORE they drop completely off the cliff. Because after year 2 and in his year 3, Trent is either going to be busted up, or his play will have declined precipitously.

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I’m sorry, but what’s the difference if Christian is developing this year, next year and the year after being Trent or Moses?

How many years on his rookie contract? If I'm getting my stud LT I kinda want him to already be a stud (or close to it) and start relatively right away. 

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Regardless of where he’s developing, he’s going to be depth. I wonder if Ty Nsekhe will be back next year or not, I hope he is.

So if he's just going to "be depth", then he's not a replacement for Trent, is he?

[turtle28]

1 minute ago, Thaiphoon said:

Yeah, but we still need a Stud WR. We'd better find one in FA then

I’ll say it again, the season isn’t over and our passing game is developing chemistry with our new QB. I wish people would show a little patience - I’m not asking for blind faith - but some patience as chemistry is developed with our passing game. I believe it will get better as the season goes on, like our passing game does every year.

[Thaiphoon]

Just now, turtle28 said:

I’ll say it again, the season isn’t over and our passing game is developing chemistry with our new QB. I wish people would show a little patience - I’m not asking for blind faith - but some patience as chemistry is developed with our passing game. I believe it will get better as the season goes on, like our passing game does every year.

Patience? In whom? Please don't say Doctson.

We need a #1. We don't have one. I like PRich, but he's a decent #2

[turtle28]

1 minute ago, Thaiphoon said:

We really don't Turtle. We have maybe at most 2 before we need to replace him. Trent has maybe one more year where he's going to play at this level. And even next year he may not play all 16 games. You want to start replacing these types of players BEFORE they drop completely off the cliff. Because after year 2 and in his year 3, Trent is either going to be busted up, or his play will have declined precipitously.

How many years on his rookie contract? If I'm getting my stud LT I kinda want him to already be a stud (or close to it) and start relatively right away. 

So if he's just going to "be depth", then he's not a replacement for Trent, is he?

I don’t agree with any of this.

1.Trent has so much athleticism and talent, I can see him playing well into his 30s like Jackie Slater. He gets injuries that are mostly nagging, only one major injury.

2. 4 years on a rookie contract. Christian is going to be depth for Trent and Moses for his entire rookie contract, you can argue otherwise, I will never agree.

3. We can get a LT in any draft in round 1 that can start in year 1 if need be, so let’s not overreact. We lost Samuels, next draft we took Trent for example.

4. Just because a player is depth for a great LT and a good RT, that doesn’t mean he’s not capable of starting himself. So yes, Christian could be Trent and Moses’ back ups for the next 2 to 4 years and be good enough to start as well. We just don’t know the answer right now.

[turtle28]

8 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

Patience? In whom? Please don't say Doctson.

We need a #1. We don't have one. I like PRich, but he's a decent #2

Yes, Doctson. He started off slow last year too and then got better as the season went on. You can disagree, I don’t care. Doctson is going to start all year like he did the last 3 months of last year, he’s going to get a chance to prove himself, and he just may do it.

[Thaiphoon]

Just now, turtle28 said:

I don’t agree with any of this.

1.Trent has so much athleticism and talent, I can see him playing well into his 30s like Jackie Slater. He gets injuries that are mostly nagging, only one major injury

He hasn't played a full slate of games since 2013 @turtle28. And last year he was out for 6 games. "Nagging injuries"??? Come on man!! He's only going to get older and more broken down as he gets older.

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2. 4 years on a rookie contract. Christian is going to be depth for Trent and Moses for his entire rookie contract, you can argue otherwise, I will never agree.

I'm not looking for a depth player. Its great we found one. I'm looking for the the replacement.

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3. We can get a LT in any draft in round 1 that can start in year 1 if need be, so let’s not overreact. We lost Samuels, next draft we took Trent for example.

Which, depending upon how many games he plays this year, we either get the LT in 2019 or 2020. Waiting until 2021 or 2022 is too late.

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4. Just because a player is depth for a great LT and a good RT, that doesn’t mean he’s not capable of starting himself. So yes, Christian could be Trent and Moses’ back ups for the next 2 to 4 years and be good enough to start as well. We just don’t know the answer right now.

Just stop. I understand the positivity on Geron, but he's not going to be the level of what we will need as the LT that we have been used to from Trent. That's not going to come from a mid-round guy who we had to mold into a good OT.

[Thaiphoon]

3 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Yes, Doctson. He started off slow last year too and then got better as the season went on. You can disagree, I don’t care. Doctson is going to start all year like he did the last 3 months of last year, he’s going to get a chance to prove himself, and he just may do it.

Ok...I'm done. I literally can't take you seriously right now.

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, Thaiphoon said:

Ok...I'm done. I literally can't take you seriously right now.

Back at ya

[Woz]

17 hours ago, turtle28 said:

I don’t agree with any of this.

1.Trent has so much athleticism and talent, I can see him playing well into his 30s like Jackie Slater. He gets injuries that are mostly nagging, only one major injury.

What's more probable: Trent plays well into his 30s or the nagging injuries pile up and his play drops off?

17 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Yes, Doctson. He started off slow last year too and then got better as the season went on. You can disagree, I don’t care. Doctson is going to start all year like he did the last 3 months of last year, he’s going to get a chance to prove himself, and he just may do it.

What's more probable: Doctson suddenly "gets it" and explores or what he is now is all he is going to be?

 

If you're a competent GM, you cannot plan on "hope" and "everything's coming up Milhouse." You have to plan for the more likely scenarios. If you get the happy path, great! That means you have the luxury of potentially letting your older talent walk without scrambling, or allowing your younger talent get acclimated to the professional level. We've discussed this in the past about whether you should wait on a position or if you should be proactive and fill it. Turtle, you've tended to want to wait and that is what the team has done. Generally speaking, it has bitten them in the keister. It's kind of like how they didn't bother working on the guard position this offseason even though it was obvious it was a problem. Now, they'll either have to spend more in free agency to address the position or spend more in draft capital to fix it.

One would hope that those who have been burned in the past would learn from their mistakes but Allen still has a job so ... *shrugs*

[TKellion]

If you are in charge of personel and are building the team through hope.You will be unemployed fast.We drafted Doctson to be a #1.He is not even a #2,at least not that #2.Trent is good but I have never considered him even as good as Chris Samuels was.I would have traded him and drafted his replacement this year.You can use these lame arguments about players.But no one is buying what your selling.Geron is a career backup at best.Trent is all but done already and Doctson should be traded for a box of cracker jacks unless you want to swap busts with someone looking for the old change of scenery boon scenario.We all want all of our draft picks to be studs too.But you cant lie to yourself when staring at a turd and call it a snickers.

[turtle28]

13 hours ago, TKellion said:

If you are in charge of personel and are building the team through hope.You will be unemployed fast.We drafted Doctson to be a #1.He is not even a #2,at least not that #2.Trent is good but I have never considered him even as good as Chris Samuels was.I would have traded him and drafted his replacement this year.You can use these lame arguments about players.But no one is buying what your selling.Geron is a career backup at best.Trent is all but done already and Doctson should be traded for a box of cracker jacks unless you want to swap busts with someone looking for the old change of scenery boon scenario.We all want all of our draft picks to be studs too.But you cant lie to yourself when staring at a turd and call it a snickers.

Well if we want to get the record straight, I never wanted to draft Doctson, so perhaps if I was in charge of personnel and was lucky enough to have that job, I would be employed, instead of being unemployed like the guy who did draft him. Over the last three decades there are plenty of players I wanted the Redskins to draft over the players they did, and if they had their teams wouldve been better.  One of them happens to be the QB we are playing next, and not only did I want to draft him in 2001 instead of Rod Gardner, but, I wanted to also sign him when he became a free agent and cut Mark Burnell to make room for him. In fact, since we didn’t draft Brees, I would’ve never traded for Mark Burnell in the first place.  And since we didn’t draft Brees, I would’ve had Ramsey as our starter in 04 and if he didn’t improve, then I would’ve drafted Aaron Rodgers over Carlos Rogers in 2010. There’s so many things I would’ve done different over the last 25 years of this franchise that it isn't even funny. The top would’ve been having Jack Kent Cooke keep the team in the family so John Kent Cooke was our owner now, and Dan Snyder never was, but we can’t change any of that now.

I do agree that Doctson hasn’t proven anything yet, but again the season is just starting. We are breaking a new qb into our passing game and still working on chemistry. I get the sentiment of, “time is almost running out,” my point is that there are 13 games left this season so, time has not run out yet. Doctson still has time to prove himself, we can’t say at this very day that we DEFINITELY have to take a WR in round 1 or 2 next year, we MAY have to, but it’s not certain right now.

Theres no way I would ever trade the Redskins best player. Good to great personnel people don’t do that. I agree that there’s an argument to be made that Samuels may have been better that Trent, what I will say once again is that each is taken for granted  by this fanbase, just like you are doing right now.

I’ll say it again, We have no clue what Gerron Christian will develop into by next year, let alone 2 or 3 years from now. Most in this same forum were ready to replace Moses after only his rookie year. So, anyone’s take that we should forget about Christian being developed into starter quality by Callahan just because his rookie preseason didn’t go great has just as a ridiculous opinion about Christian as they did about Moses in 2015.

[turtle28]

17 hours ago, Woz said:

What's more probable: Trent plays well into his 30s or the nagging injuries pile up and his play drops off?

What's more probable: Doctson suddenly "gets it" and explores or what he is now is all he is going to be?

 

If you're a competent GM, you cannot plan on "hope" and "everything's coming up Milhouse." You have to plan for the more likely scenarios. If you get the happy path, great! That means you have the luxury of potentially letting your older talent walk without scrambling, or allowing your younger talent get acclimated to the professional level. We've discussed this in the past about whether you should wait on a position or if you should be proactive and fill it. Turtle, you've tended to want to wait and that is what the team has done. Generally speaking, it has bitten them in the keister. It's kind of like how they didn't bother working on the guard position this offseason even though it was obvious it was a problem. Now, they'll either have to spend more in free agency to address the position or spend more in draft capital to fix it.

One would hope that those who have been burned in the past would learn from their mistakes but Allen still has a job so ... *shrugs*

Yeah, Trent’s play may drop off in his mid 30s. All that means is that he’s not All-Pro caliber, but instead the 3rd or 4th best OT in the NFC. He’d still be great, and our best option by far as a starter at LT.

My point about Doctson is the season isn’t over. The draft isn’t in a few months, a few weeks or tomorrow. We just don’t know. I totally concede it’s probable that Doctson doesn’t showcase himself better the last 13 games of the year and will need to be replaced. Sure, that MAY happen! I’m not going to accept that it’s impossible and on September 28th that we already are saying we absolutely have to draft a wr in round 1 or 2 instead of drafting an ILB, CB since I think Norman will be gone, or an OG.

[MKnight82]

We shouldn’t just dump TWill.  If he plays starts to dip at LT we can just transition him to LG.  That assumes he’s willing to take less money on his next extension though.