Amari Cooper traded to Cowboys

[J Shank]

16 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

Zeke led us to a number 1 seed. He was the CEO. Dak was a manager.

Dak is a bottom 10 starting QB. Ryan Fitzpatrick is better. Probably Sam Bradford too.

While I agree with most of your commentary, I think the Dak assessment is a bit overblown. I don't think it is fair to say what we have in Dak, exactly, yet. Also, we must recognize that the staff and philosophy have a major effect on young QBs. The evidence is a mixed bag when looking at Dak's performance(s) as an NFL QB. 

He does seem to be a better thrower when he "has nothing to lose", like when he plays to come back. I truly believe they have tried to mold him into an Alex Smith type, ball security and "not making the bad play is more important than making the good play." 

There are certain qualities about him that are extraordinary and everyone has talked about them some much, some of the shine has worn off. His leadership is extraordinary. His demeanor is extraordinary. He has nerves of steel. He is clutch. He has high work ethic and takes well to coaching, so he has all the tools to improve year to year. 

I am really starting to think of this Cooper trade as being a - this year and next year - make or break for Dak as the future QB, as well as the Offensive Staff.

So, for all the short comings of Dak which you can point to, there are REAL positives that one could point out. I think that is exactly where we are: we have seen things that support the claim he is a QB for the future, and we see things that suggest he is not the answer. To be honest and fair, the NFL is a "whathaveyoudoneformelately" league, and we are seeing more of the "he isn't the answer" as of late. But these QB's are not so easy to assess, so I think Dak has earned a bit more opportunity to prove one way or the other. 

 

[DaBoys]

Dak is a bottom 10 starting QB, and he has over 30 games under his belt. It's okay to lay down some judgment after 2.5 years worth of starts.

We have plenty of tape. You can't teach accuracy so I don't care that he is coachable. Leadership doesn't help him read the field. 

 

I absolutely disagree that he is clutch. He looked at a wide open Gallup before fumbling in his own endzone with the game on the line.

 

How many game winning drives does he have? Like we are losing in the final minutes and Dak brought us back?

 

If we are down by 3 in the 4th we are screwed.

[TheBeast23]

I’m still going with remaining open about Dak until given a decent shot with decent options to throw to and a offense that showcases his strengths. Yes he won’t throw anyone open. Yes his accuracy is rangy at best during crucial parts of the game especially deep throws. He panics under pressure and slow to make reads. Always seems like he wants to pull the trigger but can’t until he’s 100 percent certain the WR is open. He has flaws to his game 100 percent agree with this. However we surely didn’t give him a hand going into this season with just bodies at WR and TE. Our Oline is in shambles more so than I think anyone imagined this year. We miss Travis deeply and Smith is looking like a shell of his former self. He might be slow to read but he still doesn’t have a lot of time to make the reads. Our Offense is vanilla and boring. Dak was always going to play second fiddle to Zeke and that’s really all he has to do. We don’t need Aaron Rodgers back there to win and we’ve proved that already. Dak is never ever ever going to throw for 350 and 3 TDs every week but he can be successful if we gear the offense to what he does well. Create time for him to throw with play selection. Instead SL is set in his ways and doesn’t adapt his offense to Daks strengths at all. I get the critics on Dak but I’m a firm believer that more of the negativity should be geared to the staff and until there’s a change there we won’t have positive results. I think Dak could become a more than solid option given a new coaching staff. 

[J Shank]

DaBoys,

The evidence is overwhelming in favor of Dak being clutch as all hell. You can point to a specific outlier incident here or there, but a holistic look at Dak's career completely contradicts your FEELINGS regarding his "clutchness".

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=PresDa01

As for his accuracy, he is at 64.7% completion for his career. Tom Brady is 64% for his career. Drew Brees is 67.2% for his career. Troy Aikman is 61.5% for his career. Tony Romo is 65.5% for his career. Jared Goff is at 62.2% for his career with crazy ranges, 54% as a rookie to 69% this year. So, your accusations that Dak is inaccurate (in the sense of, he is not capable of throwing precisely) is contradicted by the evidence. 

I agree, that Dak can't make all the throws, and he doesn't have much touch... in that sense you could argue that he doesn't have the "total package" regarding arm talent for a QB. But, then again, Jay Cutler had the total package as far as arm talent, and he could certainly throw precisely, but his career completion percentage is 62%.

Moreover, you allege that you can't teach accuracy. . . Tony Romo goes into great depths about the ability to really "throw accurately" and he made clear that it was a long learning process for him, and that it didn't really click until the Broncos game in 2013. (Remember Romo didn't even see game action until 3+ years of learning from Pine U)

Lastly, Dak is one of the most accurate deep ball throwers in the game.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/deep-ball-project

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-most-accurate-deep-ball-passers-in-2017

Maybe you are right, and his highly accurate deep ball may be contributed to the fact that he only throws deep on the few occasions when it is a sure thing... well, then we would have to see him throw deep more and have a drastic decrease in accuracy to prove your claim. 

The real question(s) about Dak is, can he be a bulk passer, can he carry the team with his ARM, can he make EVERY throw, are defenses able to take away his strengths and he can't overcome it, will he continue to progress as field general, can he be successful when given less time than an elite o-line will afford him, etc. . . ? And, does he have to do any of that to be successful?

Now, I am sure you will point out that the stats are skewed because we have a superb rookie year and the sample is not accurate. If you make this argument, it is also necessary that you account and control for the lack of talent around him, at times. 

Again, I think there is evidence on both sides that makes the reasonable 'scout' temper his evaluations. And while the stats are different than the eye test, and may convey a different message, the stats ought not be completely ignored, diminished, or unaccounted for; and those stats show he deserves more opportunity to prove himself.  

 

 

[DaBoys]

Troy Aikman was the one who said you can't teach accuracy. And Romo was absolutely killing Dak last week with his comments. 

 

Dak is not an accurate QB. Dak is not a smart LOS QB. Dak is a running QB, stuck on a team trying to make him Peyton Manning.

Dak will never win MVP. He will never lead the league in TDs or yards. He is nothing more than a high end backup/low end starter.

 

[DaBoys]

also the lazy "Dak doesn't have anybody around him," argument is getting old.

 

Our OL may not be All Time Greatest Ever anymore, but it's still one of the best in the league, and at the very least "above average."

 Let's start a thread in NFL Gen and see which teams would rather have our line than the one they have.

 

 

Zeke is a top 3 RB. Most QBs dont get to play every game with 9 in the box like Dak.

 

Most of you cheered the release of Dez and now complain about our WRs. Hurns, Gallup, Beasley, and Tavon Austin are a decent group, and tape has shown over and over and over again that they are getting open and Dak won't throw it. Go watch the skins game again. Go listen to what Beasley has to say about it. GET THE ALL 22.  Put out the candles on your Dak shrine.

 

 

 

Oh and now we have Amari Cooper, so no more of that bs. Dak is/was/will be the number 1 reason our offense sucks. He has plenty of weapons now, a solid OL, elite RB that commands attention. The only thing he doesn't have is excuses.

 

[Matts4313]

1 hour ago, DaBoys said:

Dak is a bottom 10 starting QB, and he has over 30 games under his belt. It's okay to lay down some judgment after 2.5 years worth of starts.

We have plenty of tape. You can't teach accuracy so I don't care that he is coachable. Leadership doesn't help him read the field. 

 

I absolutely disagree that he is clutch. He looked at a wide open Gallup before fumbling in his own endzone with the game on the line.

 

How many game winning drives does he have? Like we are losing in the final minutes and Dak brought us back?

 

If we are down by 3 in the 4th we are screwed.

Have you lost your damn mind? You are straight trolling now. 

[DaBoys]

It's like you guys don't watch the games. We are 3 and 4. And 8-8 last year(the last 6-0 "win" over the philly backups was a loss imo). How did we manage this with such an amazing, clutch, QB? 

[Matts4313]

5 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

It's like you guys don't watch the games. We are 3 and 4. And 8-8 last year(the last 6-0 "win" over the philly backups was a loss imo). How did we manage this with such an amazing, clutch, QB? 

Because you overrate the living hell out of every other player on the team. Our receiving talent is not great. Our OL has regressed. Our S/FS are both low end starters and our CBs are all brand new to playing the position in the NFL. Our DL cant lay off the juice/drugs. Our LBs have been oft injured. Our OC is below average. 

[DaBoys]

24th in QBR

23rd in passing yards.

8 TD passes. Tied with Case Keenum and Ryan Tannehill. Less TD passes than Wentz who didn't even start the year.

Our record is 3 and 4 while our defense allows 17 points a game. 

 

The biggest problem has been our PASSING GAME. Yet, somehow there is still a pack of you trying to convince people that Dak is a good QB.

[DaBoys]

1 minute ago, Matts4313 said:

Because you overrate the living hell out of every other player on the team. Our receiving talent is not great. Our OL has regressed. Our S/FS are both low end starters and our CBs are all brand new to playing the position in the NFL. Our DL cant lay off the juice/drugs. Our LBs have been oft injured. Our OC is below average. 

You really want to pump up Dak and lay into a top 3 defense? 

 

[DaBoys]

9 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Dak is good.

No he isn't.

 

[Matts4313]

4 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

24th in QBR

23rd in passing yards.

8 TD passes. Tied with Case Keenum and Ryan Tannehill. Less TD passes than Wentz who didn't even start the year.

Our record is 3 and 4 while our defense allows 17 points a game. 

 

The biggest problem has been our PASSING GAME. Yet, somehow there is still a pack of you trying to convince people that Dak is a good QB.

Are you ignoring the rushing production because it doesnt favor your argument? Or are you ignoring that he getting sacked literally twice as often because you dont want to admit how pressure effects QBs? 

 

And I assume you will be first to give a glowing endorsement of the offensive coaching right?

[Matts4313]

4 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

You really want to pump up Dak and lay into a top 3 defense? 

 

You did point out the last 3 years right? Because the defense has absolutely not been top 3 the last 3 years. 

[D82]

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the OL is currently 3rd in time allowed or something along those lines. Essentially, out of all 32 offensive lines, the Cowboys are top 3 in giving their QB time to hit that open receiver.

So...they can't be doing that bad.