2019 Free Agent Discussion

[fistfullofbeer]

1 minute ago, SSG said:

Overreaction?  Our offense was held to 7 or fewer points last year in 11 HALVES of football.  ELEVEN.  That's more than 1/3 of the season where the offense was completely worthless.  

• Minnesota week 2.  Our defense scored just as many TDs as our offense that day.  The offense pissed the game down their leg in the second half needing Crosby to account for 100% of their second half points.
• Washington week 3. 17 points against a mediocre Washington Defense.  Another disgusting performance in the second half with just 7 points.
• Buffalo, Week 4. Another disgusting second half where they only managed 6 points.  
• Detroit, Week 5.  Zero first half points.  Detroit's defense had 4 halves of shutout football last year and 3 of them came against Green Bay.
• New England week 8. 7 second half points.
• Seattle, Week 10. 3 second half points in a close game  
• Minnesota, week 11. 3 second half points (and those came with less than 2 minutes remaining)
• Arizona. Week 12. 7 second half points in a game in which the worst team in the NFL came into Green Bay and dominated our offense.  Disgusting.
• Chicago. Week 14.... 3 first half points.  
• Detroit, Week 16... zero points.  Aaron Rodgers or no Aaron Rodgers..... We were laughed off our own field as Detroit caved our heads in for the 4th time in a row.

If that's an acceptable offense, then we have entirely different definitions of what acceptable is.  There were winnable games last year that our defense kept us in but we were unable to capitalize because of the absolute ineptness of our offense. 

Our offense was every bit as responsible for last year's season as our defense.  There is no overreaction.  I'm not going to ignore what happened on the field because of what a ranking says or box score says.  That 500 yard game in the first meeting against Detroit improves that ranking when in reality those yards meant nothing because it took our offense 36 minutes before it was able to get into the endzone against a team that gave up 48 points to the Jets in their HOME opener.  

I think the offense failed to win games last year even when our defense (somehow) managed to keep them close. I know Rodger's was not great last year but honestly, outside of Adams there was none of our receivers that were good. We can hope that Rodgers has a rebound year in the new offense without adding any new weapons or we can play to our strengths and surround him with real talent.

I am all about the 'defense wins championships' mentality, but with the number of positions we need help on at D, I think we are a good 2-3 years off from creating a D of that caliber. Even if we are super aggressive about D in both the draft and FA.

[SSG]

7 minutes ago, smetana34 said:

At least Cooper was still on a rookie contract and had shown some decent tape. Still only 25 years old

He'd also shown some horrible tape and is now up for a massive contract.  They're likely going to have to pay him based on his draft hype and not his production as a pro.  

[Nick_gb]

52 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

I'm not a fan of 30 for Brown.

12 for Quinten Nelson? Now we're talking.

lmao ZINNNNNGGGG

[MacReady]

Just now, SSG said:

Overreaction?  Our offense was held to 7 or fewer points last year in 11 HALVES of football.  ELEVEN.  That's more than 1/3 of the season where the offense was completely worthless. 

Patriots -

6 points in second half versus Texans.
3 points in first half against the Jaguars.
3 points in first half against the Lions.
7 points in second half versus Lions.
0 points in second half versus Titans.
6 points in second half versus Dolphins.
7 points in first half versus Steelers.
3 points in second half versus Steelers.

EIGHT HALVES of football ermergerd, the Pertrierts scerred 7 pernts er ferer in 8 HERVES erv fertberl, ermergerd! 

That's half the season!  Ermergerd! 

The Patriots scored 7 or fewer points against the Texans, Jaguars, Lions, Titans, Dolphins, Steelers.  They need to draft offense and trade for Anternier Brown. 

Saints

3 in first half against the Browns.
7 in first half against Ravens.
0 in first half against Cowboys.
3 in first half against Buccaneers.
6 in first half against Panthers.
6 in second half against Panthers.
0 in first half against the Panthers.

Ermergerd, the Saints scored 7 or fewer points 7 times!  7 times! 

It's an overreaction.  Your attempt to paint a bleak picture is laughable. 

The Packers were the 15th best offense in the NFL.  That's a fact.  You can go to whichever ill-conceived doomsday statistic device you want, but as I've just shown, your attempt makes it look not so great.  We could go into next season with literally the same players and expect a marked improvement due to a new scheme and new head coach, but you'll never acknowledge that. 

 

 

[SSG]

7 minutes ago, fistfullofbeer said:

I think the offense failed to win games last year even when our defense (somehow) managed to keep them close. I know Rodger's was not great last year but honestly, outside of Adams there was none of our receivers that were good. We can hope that Rodgers has a rebound year in the new offense without adding any new weapons or we can play to our strengths and surround him with real talent.

I am all about the 'defense wins championships' mentality, but with the number of positions we need help on at D, I think we are a good 2-3 years off from creating a D of that caliber. Even if we are super aggressive about D in both the draft and FA.

I agree completely.  Our inability to get into the endzone was every bit as responsible for the end of season result as our ability to keep teams from the endzone.  We didn't have an offense capable of consistent, playoff caliber football.  Quality offenses don't turn into dumpster fires for entire halves of football and that is exactly what happened last year over the season.  The only times our offense was consistent over 4 quarters is when we played some of the league's worst defenses (San Fran, Atlanta, Jets).  The offense was outclassed for long periods of time against the good defenses.  

[MacReady]

Just now, SSG said:

Quality offenses don't turn into dumpster fires for entire halves of football and that is exactly what happened last year over the season.

lol.  Patriots just won Super Bowl.  Scored 7 points or less in half three times less than we did.  Two of those halves for us came without Aaron Rodgers.  Your argument is crap. 

[packfanfb]

1 minute ago, SSG said:

I agree completely.  Our inability to get into the endzone was every bit as responsible for the end of season result as our ability to keep teams from the endzone.  We didn't have an offense capable of consistent, playoff caliber football.  Quality offenses don't turn into dumpster fires for entire halves of football and that is exactly what happened last year over the season.  The only times our offense was consistent over 4 quarters is when we played some of the league's worst defenses (San Fran, Atlanta, Jets).  The offense was outclassed for long periods of time against the good defenses.  

Not saying I disagree that we could certainly stand to add some talent on the offensive side of the ball. Personally we need to start at OL and find a starting RG and even take a hard look at upgrading Taylor at LG. We certainly need to add a slot guy, whether in FA or the in the first 3 rounds of the draft (Hint: Deebo). 

All that being said, I'm clinging to the hope that no less than 50% of our problems on offense were directly attributable to one Michael McCarthy, could couldn't scheme himself out of a paper bag. It worked for McCarthy when we had unbelievable talent and Rodgers playing above the top of his game. However, we don't need those things to still be a successful offense. You have to assume and hope that our biggest FA acquisition this year, by a long shot, is LaFleur, at least from the offensive side of the ball.  

[fistfullofbeer]

1 minute ago, Outpost31 said:

lol.  Patriots just won Super Bowl.  Scored 7 points or less in half three times less than we did.  Two of those halves for us came without Aaron Rodgers.  Your argument is crap. 

So you are comparing us to the team that won 3 of the last 5 Superbowls? Also, to the team that has won 38 regular season games in the last 3 seasons compared to one that has won 23? The Patriots are unique. They have great coaching and very aggressive/astute management who have hit home runs on trades, draft picks and FA signings over the last few years.

I have little faith that this team all of a sudden starts hitting home runs with their drafting. Or have a coaching staff that starts polishing turds into diamonds. 

[MacReady]

Just now, fistfullofbeer said:

So you are comparing us to the team that won 3 of the last 5 Superbowls?

No.  I am saying that it's a terrible argument to use 7 or less points in a half X amount of times, and I used evidence of the Patriots having similar struggles to show that.

The Packers were an average offense last year in spite of injuries, youth, a fired head coach.  It does not need some massive influx of talent.  Anybody who thinks it does is kinda ridiculous and neglecting about a billion facts because they like playmakerz. 

[MacReady]

Just now, packfanfb said:

I'm clinging to the hope that no less than 50% of our problems on offense were directly attributable to one Michael McCarthy

McCarthy, youth, injuries, inexperience (Graham) with Rodgers. 

Offense could use a developmental 2nd-4th round TE, a future RT, an addition or two at IOL and another RB.  All of that can be addressed easily without any major knee-jerk reactions to a very average (NOT bad) season offensively. 

[fistfullofbeer]

1 minute ago, Outpost31 said:

No.  I am saying that it's a terrible argument to use 7 or less points in a half X amount of times, and I used evidence of the Patriots having similar struggles to show that.

The Packers were an average offense last year in spite of injuries, youth, a fired head coach.  It does not need some massive influx of talent.  Anybody who thinks it does is kinda ridiculous and neglecting about a billion facts because they like playmakerz. 

The reason some of us like playmakerz is because they give you a much higher chance of adding production than draft picks or low-profile signings that could end up being home run picks. I guess I am just more of a quality over quantity kind of person. Give me a proven commodity which costs more (but I can afford) over one that has not played a single game in the NFL or one who is an average NFL'er.

I would call our offense poor last year. Not even average. I expect them to be average if healthy.

Maybe, you are putting a lot of stock into an unproven NFL head coach turning our offense around? While possible, that would be a lot difficult if the only real weapon Rodgers has is Adams. I am sorry, I guess we are just going to have to disagree about not needing an influx of talent on offense.

[packfanfb]

 

Is Collins strictly an OBLB or do we see him as an EDGE candidate? 

[rcon14]

4 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

 

Is Collins strictly an OBLB or do we see him as an EDGE candidate? 

I have no idea, but just for the purpose of the discussion, here's how he ranks in the formulas:

Power 99th percentile
Speed 40 71st
Agility 54th
Speed 10 55th
Twitch 59th

[packfanfb]

 

What's your preferred order given the choice? 

Using the number above, I'd go: 

1, 5, 3, 4, 2

[Arthur Penske]