Week 13: VIKINGS (6-4-1) at Patriots (8-3)

[wcblack34]

11 hours ago, SemperFeist said:

Maybe? The fact that you can’t even give the guy credit for a dominant perfomance just shows your bias. Cousins absolutely took over the Green Bay game, and quite frankly both of them. He’s also been a primary reason that this team has either been close in games (the Rams), or he’s made great throws when it matters. Cousins is an above average quarterback. Does that mean he’s great? Probably not. But above average is still better than what we’ve watched the last decade, and minus one fluke season, this century. 

That’s interesting. Considering that Smith wasn’t a free agent, would your hand still be up to send Trae Waynes and a 3rd round pick to Kansas City, plus giving $94M to a 34 year old QB, and tying him to your franchise through at least 2021?

You assume he would have received the same contract here. Not likely, considering the Vikings are far better run in the front office than Washington. And his contract wasn’t fully guaranteed. Not like Smith had a no trade clause. 

And again, he’s been average to below average in the majority of the games this year. He’s also a turnover machine.  The fact you can’t admit that shows your bias. 

 

We didnt pay 84 million guaranteed for average or above average. Just because he’s better than Matt Cassel and Christian Ponder doesn’t mean his good, and it certainly doesn’t mean he’s worth his contract. 

[swede700]

15 hours ago, SemperFeist said:

That’s interesting. Considering that Smith wasn’t a free agent, would your hand still be up to send Trae Waynes and a 3rd round pick to Kansas City, plus giving $94M to a 34 year old QB, and tying him to your franchise through at least 2021?

1

I would have blasted that trade.  

[swede700]

4 hours ago, wcblack34 said:

And again, he’s been average to below average in the majority of the games this year. He’s also a turnover machine.  The fact you can’t admit that shows your bias. 

 

And again, it appears you haven't watched him play...or your expectations of the QB position are HOF-level.  You compare him to the rest of the NFL, he's in that 10-15 range, whether you like it or not...which makes him above average.  That's plain and simple math.   

And this comes from a guy who never was a real fan of bringing in Cousins.  I personally would have kept Teddy and let him come back fully.   

[vikingsrule]

2 minutes ago, swede700 said:

And again, it appears you haven't watched him play...or your expectations of the QB position are HOF-level.  You compare him to the rest of the NFL, he's in that 10-15 range, whether you like it or not...which makes him above average.  That's plain and simple math.    

While that's true, I think 11-16 is fair, it's been unfortunate that even with this investment at the QB position, we've yet to have any big wins this year as a result of having an "above average" QB. We can't beat teams with a winning record and that's a major problem.

[swede700]

2 minutes ago, vikingsrule said:

While that's true, I think 11-16 is fair, it's been unfortunate that even with this investment at the QB position, we've yet to have any big wins this year as a result of having an "above average" QB. We can't beat teams with a winning record and that's a major problem.

While losing the Saints game was a huge problem, the others were not, because they were all on the road.  Certainly, we would have liked them to win one of them at least, but most people predicted losses to the Rams and the Patriots.  It's only the Bears that we were surprised about.  What I see here is tremendous over-reaction.  If they had not lost to the Bills earlier in the season...at home, I'm not sure we'd see the same reaction.    

[vikingsrule]

7 minutes ago, swede700 said:

While losing the Saints game was a huge problem, the others were not, because they were all on the road.  Certainly, we would have liked them to win one of them at least, but most people predicted losses to the Rams and the Patriots.  It's only the Bears that we were surprised about.  What I see here is tremendous over-reaction.  If they had not lost to the Bills earlier in the season...at home, I'm not sure we'd see the same reaction.    

Tying in Green Bay certainly hurts too, especially talking about a team who may not even reach six wins. While we tied in Green Bay, we should have lost that game due to the awful pick that Cousins threw. A bogus roughing penalty on Matthews saved us.

[swede700]

12 minutes ago, vikingsrule said:

Tying in Green Bay certainly hurts too, especially talking about a team who may not even reach six wins. While we tied in Green Bay, we should have lost that game due to the awful pick that Cousins threw. A bogus roughing penalty on Matthews saved us.

Agreed.  That was a game that they shouldn't have won and should have won all at the same time.  It's almost fitting that it ended in a tie.  

[vikingsrule]

1 hour ago, swede700 said:

Agreed.  That was a game that they shouldn't have won and should have won all at the same time.  It's almost fitting that it ended in a tie.  

Agreed, between the called back Cousins Int, the Crosby miss, and the Carlson misses, a tie was the only way to settle it.

[wcblack34]

Average or "above average" might be fine if your contract isn't hamstringing the team. I was against Cousins' signing from the beginning because of the contract. Of he was making a salary commensurate with a midling QB, fine. But he's not. He's being paid to be elite. He is not. He is average. Period. And that kills the ability to put the team around him he needs to win when it matters. 

[SemperFeist]

It’s simply amazing that the team was able to sign Sheldon Richardson, Eric Kendricks, Danielle Hunter, and Stefon Diggs with Cousins’ contract hamstringing the team. 

And when it comes to free agency, supply and demand has always set the market over a player’s overall talent. “Next man up” has always been the name of the game. Derek Carr reset the market when his time came. Shortly after that it Matthew Stafford. Followed by Jimmy Garoppolo, then Kirk Cousins. Shortly after that, Matt Ryan reset the market, followed quickly by Aaron Rodgers. Cousins just hit the open market at the right time. 

[swede700]

17 hours ago, wcblack34 said:

Average or "above average" might be fine if your contract isn't hamstringing the team. I was against Cousins' signing from the beginning because of the contract. Of he was making a salary commensurate with a midling QB, fine. But he's not. He's being paid to be elite. He is not. He is average. Period. And that kills the ability to put the team around him he needs to win when it matters. 

His contract is not hamstringing the team.  I'm not sure where that perception comes from.  They were likely going to have to pay $20M+ to any QB they signed (except for Teddy) and have been planning for that for several years now.  

[SemperFeist]

11 minutes ago, swede700 said:

(except for Teddy)

And even that would have likely only been a one year reprieve from playing him $20M+ (and more likely closer to $25M+). 

[vikingsrule]

16 hours ago, SemperFeist said:

It’s simply amazing that the team was able to sign Sheldon Richardson, Eric Kendricks, Danielle Hunter, and Stefon Diggs with Cousins’ contract hamstringing the team. 

And when it comes to free agency, supply and demand has always set the market over a player’s overall talent. “Next man up” has always been the name of the game. Derek Carr reset the market when his time came. Shortly after that it Matthew Stafford. Followed by Jimmy Garoppolo, then Kirk Cousins. Shortly after that, Matt Ryan reset the market, followed quickly by Aaron Rodgers. Cousins just hit the open market at the right time. 

Which is all the more reason to draft another QB in the next year or two. Is Cousins going to want to reset the market, again? I believe his next contract will hinder the team if he doesn't make drastic improvements in 2019.

At this point, I'm more concerned about Cousins holding this team back than the OL over the next 3 years.

[swede700]

8 minutes ago, vikingsrule said:

Which is all the more reason to draft another QB in the next year or two. Is Cousins going to want to reset the market, again? I believe his next contract will hinder the team if he doesn't make drastic improvements in 2019.

At this point, I'm more concerned about Cousins holding this team back than the OL over the next 3 years.

I'm not as concerned about him wanting to reset the market again here...I think that situation said more about Washington's front office and their lack of respect and fairness towards him than it said about him wanting to set the market.  We can't forget that he was offered more money by the Jets, but chose to come here instead.  

[vikingsrule]

4 minutes ago, swede700 said:

I'm not as concerned about him wanting to reset the market again here...I think that situation said more about Washington's front office and their lack of respect and fairness towards him than it said about him wanting to set the market.  We can't forget that he was offered more money by the Jets, but chose to come here instead.  

That's fair. He will also be older and by that time, Mahomes, Goff and Wentz may sign astronomical deals anyway.