Joe Montana/Dan Marino in 2018 vs.................

[TXsteeler]

Assuming Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers know a bit about NFL history, they could easily help their team draft 3-5 future HOFers per year, definitely take their odds.

[Hunter2_1]

Personally I think Marino in 2018 would utterly tear it up. Rodgers in the 80s would be good, but I reckon he would be killed. 

[Destructo Spin]

Brees is the spiritual successor to Montana. Montana was never the big armed guy slinging it down the field. He was the point guard, distributing the ball to a ton of different players and running the 2 minute drill like it was as routine as brushing his teeth.

I think if you took Montana from say 1989 and put him in the NFL right now, he'd tear it up. And obviously, if you put Brees on those old 49ers teams, he'd have at least the same number of rings being backed up by those good defenses. Ask fans of the old NFC West teams who Brees most reminds them of and they will almost certainly tell you Montana.

The Marino/Rodgers comparison is more interesting, in that I don't think they're very interchangeable. Obviously a prime Marino would kill it today, but Rodgers, not so sure. All those sacks he takes now would be magnified times 2 or 3 in an era where you could just unload on the QB. He would have to change his playing style or he wouldn't last more than 3-4 seasons in that era IMO. Very similar players though, apart from the sacks issue.

 

Edited December 19, 2018 by Destructo Spin

[C0LTSFAN4L1F3]

2 hours ago, Destructo Spin said:

And obviously, if you put Brees on those old 49ers teams, he'd have at least the same number of rings being backed up by those good defenses.

How is this obvious at all? I doubt Brees could pull off what Montana did. Montana is the GOAT playoff QB and it isn't even close. Sure, he'd have a better shot with those defenses, but it sure as hell is no guarantee. 

[Destructo Spin]

25 minutes ago, C0LTSFAN4L1F3 said:

How is this obvious at all? I doubt Brees could pull off what Montana did. Montana is the GOAT playoff QB and it isn't even close. Sure, he'd have a better shot with those defenses, but it sure as hell is no guarantee. 

Actually, Brees is the GOAT playoff quarterback. He has a 100.7 passer rating, a 3 to 1 TD/INT ratio, ANYA of 7.5+ and averages 323 passing yards per game in the playoffs. He is, literally, statistically the best playoff QB in NFL history and it's really not that close.

 

Manning: 87.4 passer rating, 8:5 TD to INT, ANYA 6.29, 271 YPG

Rodgers: 99.4 rate, 3:1 ratio, 7.05 ANYA, 262 ypg

Brady: 90.9 rate, 7:3 ratio, 6.44 ANYA, 276 YPG

Montana: 95.6 rate, 4:2 ratio, 6.99 ANYA,, 250 ypg

Edited December 20, 2018 by Destructo Spin

[C0LTSFAN4L1F3]

1 minute ago, Destructo Spin said:

Actually, Brees is the GOAT playoff quarterback. He has a 100.7 passer rating, a 3 to 1 TD/INT ratio, ANYA of 7.5+ and averages 323 passing yards per game in the playoffs.

No, he isn't. He simply isn't. That's completely ridiculous. 

He's only played 13 playoff games and when you adjust for the difference in eras his numbers are inferior to Montana's on a much smaller sample size. Not to mention Montana simply did things like drop 6 touchdowns and 55 points on the #1 scoring defense. Let me know when Brees has an 146 passer rating over an entire playoff run (especially in an era where 80 was considered a decent rating)

[Destructo Spin]

a predictable response....meh

produce an actual argument or don't bother

Edited December 20, 2018 by Destructo Spin

[C0LTSFAN4L1F3]

24 minutes ago, Destructo Spin said:

a predictable response....meh

produce an actual argument or don't bother

LOL, I did. Try forming a counterargument or don't reply, my man. 

Not that much needs to be said to prove playoff Montana>>>>>>>>>>>>playoff Brees. 

Edited December 20, 2018 by C0LTSFAN4L1F3

[Destructo Spin]

Yeah....that's not an argument, that's just a statement and some 'greater than' signs, and previously, some hypothetical BS you can't quantify and a move-the-goalposts type statement.

Look, the numbers are right there. I'll be gone for Christmas and probably not checking this site until about Dec. 29 if you need time to attempt to mount a half-decent argument with like, facts and statistics and stuff.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Destructo Spin

[ZenoRazon]

I can see most simply don't get it.

We have a whole other level of athlete today than what we had in the 80's, just like the 80's compared to the 50's. The game is so much faster now, the defenses FAR superior to those 85 bears. Guys are bigger, faster and stronger because of what we ow see at the NCAA level.  Guys like Joe Montana, Dan Marino would be overwelmed with the speed of the game. 

If the QB's today can deal with todays athletes think what they could do vs those in the 80's.

The  fastest human on earth was Carl Lewis, he won the 84/88 Olympic 100, hos best time....9.86.  Colleges guys can run that today,  the American record 9.69.

It's like that in all sports. Put LeBron in the 80's, he's put up 40 a night, look at heavyweight boxing, hell what pro rassler could do what we see today?

Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Patrick Mahomes, Philip Rivers would put up outerwordly numbers back in the days of Montana/Marino. While bringing them up to right now, big mistake.

Today's Alabama would mangle the 60's Lombardi Packers, way too big and way too fast.

Edited December 20, 2018 by ZenoRazon

[JAF-N72EX]

3 hours ago, ZenoRazon said:

I can see most simply don't get it.We have a whole other level of athlete today than what we had in the 80's, just like the 80's compared to the 50's. The game is so much faster now, the defenses FAR superior to those 85 bears. Guys are bigger, faster and stronger

So this is your rebuttal for saying different eras are NOT impossible to compare??? 

I'm sorry man, but how do you NOT see how much of a contradiction this statement is vs your earlier take? 

I mean, you admitted there was a change in the game from the 50's and 80's---a 30 years difference---but you're telling me that can't see the difference between the 90's and 2018--28 year difference?  Hell, I see a big difference from the mid-2000's to now for Christ sake? 

The point is, the game has changed. DRAMATICALLY!!!!! (Mostly to appease the kids watching! Sadly, only for the sake of money). 

My personnel rant on this subject starts here, so if you wanna skip, feel free.
Hell, I even wrote an entire article as long as this forum about this a few years ago regarding Goodell's era vs others and how the "changes of the game" have been focused on only offense and pointed out facts about it.

The NFL is just like any other long-standing major business in the world who know they are in a comfortable position ...........they are only about $$$ at this point (aka keeping investors happy). 

So what can they do to try and lure in the younger generation to set themselves for the long-term in an era run by video games??? "Hey, let's use video games and give the kids what they want...high scoring games?". 

And what do they do? Just that. Why? Because they knew 15 years ago that those 10-20 year old kids watching the game, (who only followed the ball around and had no idea what they were watching from a scouting perspective) started to become heavily influenced by not only video games in general, but Madden---another bread winner for the NFL for the licensing money they receive.  

Cmon Zeno. swallow your pride here man and own realize the flaws in your logic here man.

Quote

 

because of what we ow see at the NCAA level.  Guys like Joe Montana, Dan Marino would be overwelmed with the speed of the game. 

If the QB's today can deal with todays athletes think what they could do vs those in the 80's.

 

Again, sorry to call you out again here but for someone who claimed to be an historian of the game I would think one would realize these very simple important things here (even when typing this out) if they truly were a historian of the game.

1)  The obvious. Defenses were not the only ones to evolve.....offensive players and coaches did too--which include QB's. 

You're making it sound as if defensive players were the only ones to have evolved over time, which is false. 

So why is that? How and why is the game faster now then it was back then? Well, you have (partially) already answered that question yourself in the same post I quoted above when you said "Guys are bigger, faster and stronger".....which equals better technological advancements (medically, mentally and physically). 

What you're also failing to mention is how much things have changed in scouting. As well as how coaches and players approach each game. Back then, they didn't have several angles of each players like they do now and the ones the angles they did have where certainly not in 720p or 1080i either. They had 144p VHS's tapes , AT BEST and only IF the stadium had them at the time---not all of them did because VHS's were new and very expensive). 

I lived through that era and still have VHS's and I can tell you right now that it's MUCH harder it evuluate players back then using those tapes then it is now. Like it's not even close. 

Hell, game pass offers every game dating back to 2009 and you can even see a HUGE discrepancy in quality.

Edit: 2) I also wanna address this too but I'm working right now.

You're also forgetting that players back then where practically given a choice to play through injuries and not like now where it's restricted by rules.

==========================

 Speaking of rules......... I don't have time to list every rule change but here some I mentioned in the past in another post.

Quote

What's missing are the rule change discrepancies between the two QB's during their respective era's and how much of those rules have played a part in their success. There is absolutely no debate that rules over the years have leaned heavily toward the offensive side of ball. The point is, I don't care how many "stats" you have, you simply CANNOT account for the major differences between two different eras without speculating, I don't care how you slice it. 

--2 point conversions 

--Neutral zone infraction 

--The five-yard contact rule (which has been HIGHLY enforced) 

--Hits with the helmet or to the head by the defender will be flagged as personal fouls. 

--QB's allowed to have ear peices. FYI: the defense wasn't even allowed these until mid-2000(IIRC) - EDIT: just checked: 15 years LATER 

--Defensive players can't flinch at the LOS. A rule made to reduce false-start penalties. 

--Instant replay + extra challenge. Important note. FYI, this was WELL before the 4k, 1080p, 720p technology that we have now too. 

--Plays where a fumble recovery happened, ball were placed at the spot of the recovery NOT where momentum took them. 

--MUCH, MUCH more emphasis on protecting the QB. 

--A player who touches a pylon remains in-bounds until any part of his body touches the ground out-of-bounds. This wasn't allowed 30 years ago. Nowadays, the QB, WR &/or RB get "stat" credit for this...... 

--Horse-collar tackles banned! Defensive players had to play more careful. Meaning more of an advantage on the offensive side ofthe ball. 

--Unnecessary roughness emphasized. If a defensive player get's in a QB's face, it's an automatic penalty nowadays. 

--If the defensive team commits a dead ball foul following the end of the half, the offensive team may choose to extend the period for one more play. Previously, the half automatically ended without the defensive team being penalized. 

--No longer hitting a QB in the knee or below. Yeah Montana and others got hit ALOT this way during that time. 

--Down-by-contact became reviewable 

--Defense is was longer able to tackle players by the insides of the jersey's. Those of you who were old enough to watch the games know how often this happened. Especially if you go back and re-watch those games. 

--Speaking of which, no more spearing a "defenseless player".(as if that's not a subjective call or anything). Another example of "Don't blink wrong defense or you will get called for a penalty!" 


And I'm sure there's more than this.............(EDIT): Brady had it MUCH, MUCH easier. I almost forgot that Montana played in TWO division realignments and Brady only played in one during his 2nd year as a starter.

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by JustAnotherFan

[ZenoRazon]

10 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

So this is your rebuttal for saying different eras are NOT impossible to compare??? 

I'm sorry man, but how do you NOT see how much of a contradiction this statement is vs your earlier take? 

I mean, you admitted there was a change in the game from the 50's and 80's---a 30 years difference---but you're telling me that can't see the difference between the 90's and 2018--28 year difference?  Hell, I see a big difference from the mid-2000's to now for Christ sake? 

The point is, the game has changed. DRAMATICALLY!!!!! (Mostly to appease the kids watching! Sadly, only for the sake of money). 

My personnel rant on this subject starts here, so if you wanna skip, feel free.
Hell, I even wrote an entire article as long as this forum about this a few years ago regarding Goodell's era vs others and how the "changes of the game" have been focused on only offense and pointed out facts about it.

The NFL is just like any other long-standing major business in the world who know they are in a comfortable position ...........they are only about $$$ at this point (aka keeping investors happy). 

So what can they do to try and lure in the younger generation to set themselves for the long-term in an era run by video games??? "Hey, let's use video games and give the kids what they want...high scoring games?". 

And what do they do? Just that. Why? Because they knew 15 years ago that those 10-20 year old kids watching the game, (who only followed the ball around and had no idea what they were watching from a scouting perspective) started to become heavily influenced by not only video games in general, but Madden---another bread winner for the NFL for the licensing money they receive.  

Cmon Zeno. swallow your pride here man and own realize the flaws in your logic here man.

Again, sorry to call you out again here but for someone who claimed to be an historian of the game I would think one would realize these very simple important things here (even when typing this out) if they truly were a historian of the game.

1)  The obvious. Defenses were not the only ones to evolve.....offensive players and coaches did too--which include QB's. 

You're making it sound as if defensive players were the only ones to have evolved over time, which is false. 

So why is that? How and why is the game faster now then it was back then? Well, you have (partially) already answered that question yourself in the same post I quoted above when you said "Guys are bigger, faster and stronger".....which equals better technological advancements (medically, mentally and physically). 

What you're also failing to mention is how much things have changed in scouting. As well as how coaches and players approach each game. Back then, they didn't have several angles of each players like they do now and the ones the angles they did have where certainly not in 720p or 1080i either. They had 144p VHS's tapes , AT BEST and only IF the stadium had them at the time---not all of them did because VHS's were new and very expensive). 

I lived through that era and still have VHS's and I can tell you right now that it's MUCH harder it evuluate players back then using those tapes then it is now. Like it's not even close. 

Hell, game pass offers every game dating back to 2009 and you can even see a HUGE discrepancy in quality.

My logic is pretty simple, anything those QB's back in the day could do these QB's today could do better but those old timers couldn't do what we see today. There are a few other positions where a few back when cats could still play like a Bob Hayes, Darrel Green, Lawrence Taylor, Gale Sayers.

 

 

[JAF-N72EX]

4 minutes ago, ZenoRazon said:

My logic is pretty simple, anything those QB's back in the day could do these QB's today could do better but those old timers couldn't do what we see today. There are a few other positions where a few back when cats could still play like a Bob Hayes, Darrel Green, Lawrence Taylor, Gale Sayers.

Simply wrong maybe. You said it yourself without even knowing it. 

[ZenoRazon]

 

All I know man is todays athletes in every sports are far superior to what we saw over 30ish years ago,yep....common sense. Sure, always a few exceptions.

[Chargers]

Marino with his quick release and strong arm would be very good. Give him a season or two to catch up and he'd be a top 5 QB. Rodgers/Brees is odd because how they play would be vary favorable but since you could deck QBs at the the time, I doubt Rodgers with his injury history makes a career out. But if you dropped him into one of the top teams like the late 1980's Giants he'd win a SB or two. Brees would fare better and probably makes a career out of it but less glamrously as he is now. I can see him leading the Bills of the 90s to Super Bowl wins over some of those Cowboys teams but only on stacked team. I doubt he could last on the Archie Manning Saints in the 1970s