Tugboat Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 7 hours ago, LinderFournette said: u wanna talk the cost of foles. your looking at having to most likely trade for him on the tag so your looking atleast a 2nd rounder just to have foles and honestly foles would be a younger bridge qb because foles is very inconsistent. he could be the eagles version or he can very well be the that rams version. much better to sign mccown for 8 or so million and draft a qb early then spend 20 and a 2nd for foles. I don't think it's any kind of guarantee that it's both of those things. I'd wager more likely it's one of them. He's going to cost $20M+ on the cap no matter what happens. I think that much is a relative certainty. Which is bad...but it is what it is. Guys like Foles and Flacco aren't going to come cheap....even if that comes in the form of incentives. Foles has that "out" on his 2019 option for like $2M or whatever and he's got no real reason not to go that route. He'll easily earn that and more back in his new deal with whoever he chooses. The Eagles throwing a tag on Foles after that seems like playing with fire for a team that really can't afford to do so with their precarious cap situation. Sure, it might net them a 2nd round pick or something from a desperate team like us...but it could also leave them stuck with an absolutely catastrophic cap disaster if teams tell them to pound sand and wait them out. It'd be a bad bluff. Not to mention a toxic "who is the starting QB?" question they don't want or need. If that happens...they'll be looking to unload his salary and might actually have to pay someone a pick to take him off their hands, Osweiler syle. If you're Foles and his agent...you're doing everything in your power to not only maximize his earnings, but to get him to a place where he's going to want to go and have a good shot at being the starter for a while, with the right pieces around him to actually win. Foles + Agent will want to be in control of where Foles ends up...not leave it up the Eagles brass to pick a spot for him. I'm not a huge Foles believer...but if it comes down to Foles/Flacco/Tannehill...it's kind of a pick'em, and none of them are going to be cheap. But at least i can see a starting QB there who might be adequate or better. Once you get into that next tier of like Teddy/Tyrod...you're probably looking at a guy who will cost less, but still not be cheap and less likely to take you anywhere important this year. Then it sorta falls off into the tier after that where...you're just hiring them to keep a seat warm. $8M is a lot to spend on a guy who is just gonna play a few games at most, before the rookie is ready to go. A guy like 40 year old McCown isn't going to win you games in the meantime. Expensive as heck seat warmer imo. Have to look long and hard at whether that $8M is better spent on a 3 week seat-warmer, or just throwing the kid to the wolves with an extra ~$8M worth of weapons or better defense. If it gets to the point where we're not only talking $20M+ for Foles on the cap PLUS giving up premium picks...count me right out. Need those picks too much, if you're going to support a guy like Foles properly in this dismal offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 2 hours ago, LinderFournette said: take Foles Probable salary of 20 million along with the bortles dead cap Can't do anything about Bortles dead cap. It's there, due to a stupid extension they signed him to. But it's there. Can't let bad money dictate what you do at the most important position though. Much as it would hurt to clear $20M+ to make room for any of Foles/Flacco/Tannehill...you have to get the QB thing figured out. And the current staff are probably on a bit of a deadline for that. Have to hope offsets help us out with Bortles dead money a bit. Feels like a bad year for that though. But heck...if you figure McCown is an $8M QB...maybe there's hope!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuvalsKing Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 7 hours ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said: How so? We likely won't have Bortles or Kessler on the team next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 7 hours ago, LinderFournette said: take Foles Probable salary of 20 million along with the bortles dead cap But cutting Bortles still saves us more than the dad cap doesnt it? Also, that is still preferable than the other FA options considering we are likely getting the 2nd best QB in this class and he'll be playing week 3 after they realize how terrible Tyrod/Fitzpatrick are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 36 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said: But cutting Bortles still saves us more than the dad cap doesnt it? Also, that is still preferable than the other FA options considering we are likely getting the 2nd best QB in this class and he'll be playing week 3 after they realize how terrible Tyrod/Fitzpatrick are That kinda depends though, right? Personally, i'd rank it like...Tannehill, Flacco, Foles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinderFournette Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 7 hours ago, Tugboat said: I don't think it's any kind of guarantee that it's both of those things. I'd wager more likely it's one of them. He's going to cost $20M+ on the cap no matter what happens. I think that much is a relative certainty. Which is bad...but it is what it is. Guys like Foles and Flacco aren't going to come cheap....even if that comes in the form of incentives. Foles has that "out" on his 2019 option for like $2M or whatever and he's got no real reason not to go that route. He'll easily earn that and more back in his new deal with whoever he chooses. The Eagles throwing a tag on Foles after that seems like playing with fire for a team that really can't afford to do so with their precarious cap situation. Sure, it might net them a 2nd round pick or something from a desperate team like us...but it could also leave them stuck with an absolutely catastrophic cap disaster if teams tell them to pound sand and wait them out. It'd be a bad bluff. Not to mention a toxic "who is the starting QB?" question they don't want or need. If that happens...they'll be looking to unload his salary and might actually have to pay someone a pick to take him off their hands, Osweiler syle. If you're Foles and his agent...you're doing everything in your power to not only maximize his earnings, but to get him to a place where he's going to want to go and have a good shot at being the starter for a while, with the right pieces around him to actually win. Foles + Agent will want to be in control of where Foles ends up...not leave it up the Eagles brass to pick a spot for him. I'm not a huge Foles believer...but if it comes down to Foles/Flacco/Tannehill...it's kind of a pick'em, and none of them are going to be cheap. But at least i can see a starting QB there who might be adequate or better. Once you get into that next tier of like Teddy/Tyrod...you're probably looking at a guy who will cost less, but still not be cheap and less likely to take you anywhere important this year. Then it sorta falls off into the tier after that where...you're just hiring them to keep a seat warm. $8M is a lot to spend on a guy who is just gonna play a few games at most, before the rookie is ready to go. A guy like 40 year old McCown isn't going to win you games in the meantime. Expensive as heck seat warmer imo. Have to look long and hard at whether that $8M is better spent on a 3 week seat-warmer, or just throwing the kid to the wolves with an extra ~$8M worth of weapons or better defense. If it gets to the point where we're not only talking $20M+ for Foles on the cap PLUS giving up premium picks...count me right out. Need those picks too much, if you're going to support a guy like Foles properly in this dismal offense. u cant discount the mentor ability of the 40 year old mccown. he is what he is. hes a solid game game manager and wont make many mistakes. is 8 million too much to give for a guy who can start and hold his own while helping x young guy develop as a qb? my answer is no. we need a true Vet to mentor a young qb and hes well seasoned and has seen alot and has mentored a few young guys. i wouldnt be all upset over spending 8 million to have a guy who can help the rookie along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinderFournette Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 3 hours ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said: But cutting Bortles still saves us more than the dad cap doesnt it? Also, that is still preferable than the other FA options considering we are likely getting the 2nd best QB in this class and he'll be playing week 3 after they realize how terrible Tyrod/Fitzpatrick are i believe it saves some if its a designated post whatever day(july or june 1st) but your splitting it over 2 years. mccown has the connection with the OC compared to both those 2 options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammymvpknight Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 15 hours ago, DuvalsKing said: Foles will not be on this team it’s entirely too much money invested into a position. Without a QB...you lose. I don’t mind overinvesting into that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuvalsKing Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 1 hour ago, sammymvpknight said: Without a QB...you lose. I don’t mind overinvesting into that position. You can want to over invest all you want unfortunately the Jags can't play this like Madden with the cap turned off. Not to mention i'd over invest for a sure thing people are looking at the Philly situation and think some how that will manifest in Jacksonville i'm not to sure about that regardless if he's worked with the OC before people thought Cousins to Vikes was going to be instant success or Keenum to Denver was going to replicate his steady play with the Vikes. I'm not to sure this Jags coaching staff can get what the Eagles got from Foles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedyg Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 6 hours ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said: But cutting Bortles still saves us more than the dad cap doesnt it? Also, that is still preferable than the other FA options considering we are likely getting the 2nd best QB in this class and he'll be playing week 3 after they realize how terrible Tyrod/Fitzpatrick are Blake counts $21M in 2019 cap. If we cut him pre June 1, he will count $16.5M in our 2019 cap ($4.5M savings) If we cut him post June 1st, he will count $11.5M (9.5M savings). Problem is, FA starts in March. So going after Foles (or anyone asking for $20M ) will require us to make moves to free up that much space before FA opens. And as the previous link mentioned, were already in the red (though current estimates include Hyde's near $5m in salary and cutting him puts us barely under, before rollovers (if we get any, which I think we do) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinderFournette Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 6 hours ago, sammymvpknight said: Without a QB...you lose. I don’t mind overinvesting into that position. throwing a 2nd round pick for a stop gap and paying him 20 million is alot like playing madden. why throw a 2nd and use 20 million when we could get a QB like McCown/teddy/tyrod(im not making an order) for 8 million and draft a guy round 1. Kyler Murray is real intriguing to me as a QB. i know hes short but hell height wasnt an advantage for blake and his batted balls syndrome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinderFournette Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Speedyg said: Blake counts $21M in 2019 cap. If we cut him pre June 1, he will count $16.5M in our 2019 cap ($4.5M savings) If we cut him post June 1st, he will count $11.5M (9.5M savings). Problem is, FA starts in March. So going after Foles (or anyone asking for $20M ) will require us to make moves to free up that much space before FA opens. And as the previous link mentioned, were already in the red (though current estimates include Hyde's near $5m in salary and cutting him puts us barely under, before rollovers (if we get any, which I think we do) https://www.thephinsider.com/2018/3/15/17123810/football-101-the-post-june-1-cut Quote The basic idea is that a team can release a player, who may actually cost more to cut than to keep, with a way to spread the dead money cap hit across multiple years. Teams can wait until June 2 (thus, the “post” June 1 designation) to release a player, but that would mean the player would miss the majority of the free agent spending sprees that happen in the spring. To try to help with that issue, the NFL and the NFL Players Association collectively bargained two June 1 designations. Twice during the offseason, a team can release a player designated as a post-June 1 cut, which gives the team the savings the two-year dead money assistance, while allowing the player to hit free agency in March. the bolded can work for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammymvpknight Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 9 minutes ago, LinderFournette said: throwing a 2nd round pick for a stop gap and paying him 20 million is alot like playing madden. why throw a 2nd and use 20 million when we could get a QB like McCown/teddy/tyrod(im not making an order) for 8 million and draft a guy round 1. Kyler Murray is real intriguing to me as a QB. i know hes short but hell height wasnt an advantage for blake and his batted balls syndrome. Not saying that Foles is the guy. Just saying that previous bad decisions shouldn’t prevent the Jags from making a good decision...especially at the QB position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 10 hours ago, Tugboat said: That kinda depends though, right? Personally, i'd rank it like...Tannehill, Flacco, Foles. I dont like Foles but I like him more than the other 2 there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 1 hour ago, LinderFournette said: throwing a 2nd round pick for a stop gap and paying him 20 million is alot like playing madden. why throw a 2nd and use 20 million when we could get a QB like McCown/teddy/tyrod(im not making an order) for 8 million and draft a guy round 1. Kyler Murray is real intriguing to me as a QB. i know hes short but hell height wasnt an advantage for blake and his batted balls syndrome. Idc about height but his weight and ability to not crumble under a DT that is almost twice his size is worrisome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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