seminoles1 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 6 hours ago, nlesthought said: Jordan didn't play with HOF caliber players, Pippen fed off Jordan. If Pippen was drafted 3rd and 4th to Nets or Clippers would he have become a HOF? This is a horrible take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 5 hours ago, dtait93 said: In any matter, his legacy is going to take a huge ding this year. If he misses the playoffs then everyone who said he's only been to 8 consecutive Finals because he plays in the "Leastern Conference" will be validated. If he makes the playoffs it will likely be the 8th and he will lose to the Warriors and not only will his Leastern Conference critics be validated but his, "unbeatable in the first round" argument will also go flying out the window. This is also a horrible take. Why does this season erase LeBron's prime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtait93 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 29 minutes ago, seminoles1 said: This is also a horrible take. Why does this season erase LeBron's prime? When did I say it erases it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 3 hours ago, dtait93 said: When did I say it erases it? Sorry, I'll rephrase. Absolutely nothing about this season validates or invalidates anything in previous seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtait93 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, seminoles1 said: Sorry, I'll rephrase. Absolutely nothing about this season validates or invalidates anything in previous seasons. If he can’t even make the playoffs in the West it absolutely validates he only made 8 straight Finals because he had the benefit of playing in the crappy East. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 37 minutes ago, dtait93 said: If he can’t even make the playoffs in the West it absolutely validates he only made 8 straight Finals because he had the benefit of playing in the crappy East. "LeBron led Miami to the title in 2012 and 2013" "Yeah, but the Lakers missed the playoffs in 2019" Fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVPatrickMahomes15 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 LeBron better hope and pray that the Warriors don't win the championship this season. Because then Durant is suddenly just a more efficient LeBron, legacy wise. He does the super team thing, except he gets in and out. Gets his 3 rings in just 3 years and then goes to **** around and do personal ventures in a big market like NY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVPatrickMahomes15 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I don't even consider Durant that high on the all time great list but the way it's unfolding he's going to be above LeBron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtait93 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 9 hours ago, seminoles1 said: "LeBron led Miami to the title in 2012 and 2013" "Yeah, but the Lakers missed the playoffs in 2019" Fun. You missed the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStanRamFan Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 16 hours ago, dtait93 said: No they were a dynasty from 1999-2007 in which they won 4. They won their 5th 7 years later in 2014 when they were no longer a dynasty. Kawhi wasn't a HoF caliber player at that point either and Lebron was still scared of him. I'm not the one who brought up injuries, but since we're talking about it, let's not forget how Lebron went from averaging 24 ppg to 36 ppg after Bogut got injured. And since we're also talking about 40 point performances... in the 1993 Finals, Jordan put up 40+. Four times. Including a 55 point performance. Incorrect. Ainge started a total of 6 games for the Blazers in 1992. In the playoffs he started 0 games. In the Finals he played the 7th most minutes. You mean the super team of Allen, Garnett, and Pierce who were 33, 34, and 35 and way past their primes when Lebron formed the Miami super team and lost to Dirk and the rag tag crew of JJ Barea, the Jet, and 37 year old Jason Kidd? Not the GOAT. No idea what he's at now, but whatever it is, it's not much higher than 10.6%. PER measures the totality of a players efficiency and Jordan's is higher, therefore he is more efficient. The gap will only widen as Lebron ages. Your view of Jordan's era shows how uneducated you are. I don't know how to separate each quote. My apologies. Spurs were in back to back Finals in 2013 and 2014. In 2014, Kawhi won the Finals MVP. That's playing at a HOF level. No one is a HOF 3 years into their career, but the talent level is there and he proved it in the Finals. I could care less about MJ's stats in the Finals playing teams with one superstar. The NBA was reverse of what it is today. Getting out of the East was tough, but once he was in the Finals, MJ had a cakewalk. LeBron blew through the East and struggled winning the Finals because the West was so tough. Hence, MJ is 6 for 6 and LeBron is 3 for 8. His 3 Finals victories were more impressive than most of MJ's outside of the beating the Jazz back to back. The fact that Danny Ainge was even on the floor 7th most minutes on any team in the Finals in embarrassing. I watch replays of the Final from Bird/Magic onward and the defense/athleticism is just a joke. Jordan is blowing past janitors and deli clerks and we praise him for it. Once Bird's back gave out in the early 90s and the Bad Boy Pistons disbanded, MJ had it easy for 8 straight years. (except for when he got bounced by Orlando in the Semis which NO ONE brings up ever. Just spew 6 for 6) And yeah Garnett, Allen, and Pierce were past their prime, but happened to make it to 3 straight Finals while LeBron couldn't get a FA to sign in Cleveland and managed to get Mo WIlliams an All Star nod. Finally, he realized no ones going to choose to sign their under their own free will and they didn't have the assets for trade for an all star and left. More power to him. How did MJ do without any other all stars? Oh yeah, nothing. The Dallas Finals is the biggest blemish on his career and I tip my cap to Rick Carlisle for actually playing zone in the NBA lol well done. Way to pull a tweet from 2016. How convenient ? lol With Go Ahead shots in the final 5 seconds of 4th Qtr/OT, MJ is 5-11 45% FG and has 3 Buzzer-beats. LeBron is 7-15 47%FG and has made 5 Buzzer-Beats. LeBron has taken more and made more GW shots. Clutch=LeBron>Jordan. Lebron averages .504% FG vs Jordan .497% FG. Edge: Lebron LeBron averages .344% from 3 vs Jordan .327% from 3. Edge: LeBron LeBron will finish his career with more points, rebounds, assists. Your view of Jordan is through rose colored lenses. Reiterating my original point: MJ is number 1 and LeBron is currently at 2. His legacy is unaffected based on a season with his first major injury, no other all star, a majority of 2nd/3rd year players, and rejects on 1 year deals. If LeBron wins a 4th title and 4th Finals MVP with the Lakers in upcoming seasons, he will be the greatest player of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtait93 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 4 hours ago, BStanRamFan said: Spurs were in back to back Finals in 2013 and 2014. In 2014, Kawhi won the Finals MVP. That's playing at a HOF level. No one is a HOF 3 years into their career, but the talent level is there and he proved it in the Finals. So is Andre Iguodala also a HOFer for winning Finals MVP in 2015? Kawhi averaged 17.8/6.4/2 in that 2014 series. That's not HOF level. Parker, Ginobili, and Duncan weren't playing at a HOF level in that Finals either. Here's their stats for your reference https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2014-nba-finals-heat-vs-spurs.html 4 hours ago, BStanRamFan said: I could care less about MJ's stats in the Finals playing teams with one superstar. The NBA was reverse of what it is today. Getting out of the East was tough, but once he was in the Finals, MJ had a cakewalk. LeBron blew through the East and struggled winning the Finals because the West was so tough. Hence, MJ is 6 for 6 and LeBron is 3 for 8. His 3 Finals victories were more impressive than most of MJ's outside of the beating the Jazz back to back. What makes Jordan beating the Sonics and Lakers, who both had 2 All-NBA players, less impressive than Lebron beating the Thunder and Spurs who both also only had 2 All-NBA players? You dog MJ for dominating the Suns with one superstar, but when Lebron played the Mavs with one superstar he was dominated. If getting out of the East was tough in the 90's and it was a cakewalk in the 2010's then overall it was harder for Jordan. Thank you. 5 hours ago, BStanRamFan said: The fact that Danny Ainge was even on the floor 7th most minutes on any team in the Finals in embarrassing. I watch replays of the Final from Bird/Magic onward and the defense/athleticism is just a joke. Jordan is blowing past janitors and deli clerks and we praise him for it. Once Bird's back gave out in the early 90s and the Bad Boy Pistons disbanded, MJ had it easy for 8 straight years. (except for when he got bounced by Orlando in the Semis which NO ONE brings up ever. Just spew 6 for 6) The fact that JJ Barea was even on the floor for the 6th most minutes on any team in the Finals is embarrassing. Also the fact that 37 year old Jason Kidd was even on the floor for the 2nd most minutes on any Finals team is embarrassing. If Jordan had the luxury of playing janitors and deli clerks, then Lebron had the luxury of playing midgets and the elderly......and yet he lost. Jordan never lost to scrubs. Your again showing your lack of knowledge of the 90's (and you just contradicted yourself after you just said getting out of the East was tough in the 90's). Jordan actually swept the Bad Boy Pistons in 1991 before they disbanded, so that's false. He beat the Ewing and Riley led Knicks in 1992 and 1993. In 1996 he swept Orlando with Shaq and Penny. In 1997 he beat Mourning and Hardaway's Heat coached by Riley. In 1998 he beat Reggie's Pacers. I would hardly call that easy. No one brings up him losing to Orlando because he only played 17 games that year. 12 hours ago, BStanRamFan said: And yeah Garnett, Allen, and Pierce were past their prime, but happened to make it to 3 straight Finals while LeBron couldn't get a FA to sign in Cleveland and managed to get Mo WIlliams an All Star nod. Finally, he realized no ones going to choose to sign their under their own free will and they didn't have the assets for trade for an all star and left. More power to him. How did MJ do without any other all stars? Oh yeah, nothing. Again, you have your history all wrong. The Big 3 Celtics only made 2 Finals and that was in 2008 and 2010...so not only did they not make it to 3 straight they didn't even make it to 2 straight. As for how Jordan did without any other all stars? He won a championship without one in 1991. 12 hours ago, BStanRamFan said: The Dallas Finals is the biggest blemish on his career and I tip my cap to Rick Carlisle for actually playing zone in the NBA lol well done. If you're the GOAT you should know how to beat a college defense. 12 hours ago, BStanRamFan said: Way to pull a tweet from 2016. How convenient ? lol With Go Ahead shots in the final 5 seconds of 4th Qtr/OT, MJ is 5-11 45% FG and has 3 Buzzer-beats. LeBron is 7-15 47%FG and has made 5 Buzzer-Beats. LeBron has taken more and made more GW shots. Clutch=LeBron>Jordan. Incorrect. You are leaving out From 2006-2016 in which Lebron was 5/47 in the last 5 seconds of 4th quarter/OT. 12 hours ago, BStanRamFan said: Lebron averages .504% FG vs Jordan .497% FG. Edge: Lebron LeBron averages .344% from 3 vs Jordan .327% from 3. Edge: LeBron LeBron will finish his career with more points, rebounds, assists. Lebron is a more efficient shooter, but he's not the better scorer. Jordan's PER is higher than Lebron's making him the overall more efficient player as a whole. Lebron also can't hold a candle to Jordan defensively. He is better than Lebron at half of the game. 13 hours ago, BStanRamFan said: Your view of Jordan is through rose colored lenses. Reiterating my original point: MJ is number 1 and LeBron is currently at 2. His legacy is unaffected based on a season with his first major injury, no other all star, a majority of 2nd/3rd year players, and rejects on 1 year deals. If LeBron wins a 4th title and 4th Finals MVP with the Lakers in upcoming seasons, he will be the greatest player of all time. It absolutely will be. He chose to leave a team that already had an all-star and go to a team that's filled with 2nd/3rd year players devoid of any all-stars. The rejects on 1 year deals are players he wanted. If you think he had no say in what FA's were signed then you are a fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resilient part 2 Posted March 3, 2019 Author Share Posted March 3, 2019 Not sure why I didn't mention that Lebron may be the only TOP 10 GOAT player who somehow "gives up" when things go south. Should be an interesting last few weeks this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malak1 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 On 2/27/2019 at 11:01 PM, seminoles1 said: "LeBron led Miami to the title in 2012 and 2013" "Yeah, but the Lakers missed the playoffs in 2019" Fun. It would definitely lend some credence to the argument that Lebron only made 8 straight finals because he played in the LEastern conference, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 1 hour ago, malak1 said: It would definitely lend some credence to the argument that Lebron only made 8 straight finals because he played in the LEastern conference, imo. People already know and accept that. It's not a new point and this season with a different team doesn't prove that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malak1 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, seminoles1 said: People already know and accept that. It's not a new point and this season with a different team doesn't prove that. A huge part of the LeBron = GOAT argument is that he took a team of nobodies to the finals and that he never lost in the first round like Jordan has. Those things appear less impressive now that he’s in the tougher conference. Right or wrong, I’m just saying that’s how people will view it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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