Washington Free Agency 2019

[Woz]

8 hours ago, turtle28 said:

he Collins contract is not a bad one and Brice hasn’t handed out any other big deals but I’m sure you’ll be complaining we have holes all over and no talent when the season starts which most likely will mean we didn’t do enough in free agency to improve the team just like every season of the last 26 years that I can remember.

Well, I realized that they were not going to be able to give out that many contracts because they were tight against the cap relative to the rest of the league. I also advocate doing no more than "one big deal" per season (so as not avoid getting in this situation in the first place and allow you to keep their own players long term).

What I objected to was doing the "one big deal" on Collins because a safety isn't worth that much. Had they spent the same amount of money on C.J. Mosley, I would have been a lot calmer about it because a top ILB is worth more than a top S.

However, I knew they wouldn't be able to solve more than a couple holes in free agency because they just didn't have the room, due to the Smith debacle.

8 hours ago, turtle28 said:

My worry is that we aren’t doing enough right now to improve the team in free agency bc were signing guys like Flowers and especially DRC when there are better safeties available who won’t break the bank either.

I would have loved to have signed Mike Mitchell - he helped the Colts secondary when he was signed mid season last year - Tre Boston, Darian Stewart, Glover Quinn, Kendrick Lewis, Ron Parker, Kurt Coleman or Corey Graham. You know, guys who are actually free safeties and have played FS more than 61 snaps in their career. Al Galdi pointed out that DRC has played 61 snaps at FS in his career and then tried to say that that gave him experience at FS, it made me nearly spit out my drink while driving to work!

Those would have been fine if not better options. What I don't understand about DRC is why they felt they had to make the move now. Where was the market for a 33 year old guy who had retired halfway through the past season (and quit on his team)? Why did they have to get him now? If they wanted him, they could have easily waited.

I suppose the one advantage of DRC over those guys is that he could slide over and play corner should injuries plague the secondary, but still.

8 hours ago, turtle28 said:

At guard instead of Flowers, we should have re-signed Jonathan Cooper or Quinton Spain - former starting guard of the Titans - I hope I and all of us are wrong about the Flowers signing but all of us have been beating the drum to re-sign Cooper for at worst depth and possibly to start all offseason. The only explanation that I can come up with as to why we haven’t yet is that Cooper wouldn’t agree to a deal like Flowers just signed or less eventhough he hasn’t proven he’s a definite starter in the NFL.  

Cooper would have made a lot more sense.

For the record, Flowers hasn't proven he's a definite starter in the NFL either. He's gotten starts but he isn't a starter.

8 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Anyways, it’s not that we are signing guys, it’s that once again and it’s been this way for decades, we are signing the WRONG GUYS!!

[record scratch noise]

Who are you and what have you done with turtle?! Why are you suddenly agreeing with me?!?

[Woz]

7 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Tanking would mean at the least trading or cutting Josh Norman and cutting Foster & VD.  If you do that, not only does it help us lose some more games for a higher 2020 draft pick to take Tua, Fromm or Herbert but it also gives us $ 17.5 mil in cap space so that the Alex Smith contract isn’t as big as a drain on our cap and we’d save future cap space to spend to make the team better for when whatever qb we draft is developed.

VD can be replaced by Sprinkle in the line up, and a mid to late round TE pick or a cheaper FA TE. Foster’s production can be replaced by players already on the roster, a cheaper ILB free agent or a draft pick.

But no, the front office keeps holding onto to these 30 year old vets to remain in mediocrity with these older players, it makes no sense! We need the freaking youth movement to take over in these 3 positons!

*Woz looks around, confused, scared*

No, SERIOUSLY, who are you and what have you done with turtle?!?

@Thaiphoon, help!!!

[turtle28]

@Woz I hear you on the Flowers and DRC points and I’m not saying I disagree with you that I do believe this won’t work out in the end but at the same time there here so I’m going to hope it works out, especially for Flowers.

As far as what minutemaid said about Flowers not having a strong punch and stuff that’s true, I also believe Callahan can work with him on things like that and improve Flowers’ technique in a couple of areas and he’ll imorove.

I mean Flowers was the 9th overall pick for a reason, he has natural talent and should be a good to great starting offensive lineman in the NFL, it sucks that coaches are going to have to push him to get there but it is what it is. If anyone can do it, I believe it’s Callahan. Callahan developed Moses, Long & Roullier into starters when most of us weren’t sure if they’d ever be starters and most people thought that Long & Moses were busts after his rookie year and they both have become good NFL starters.

Callahan also developed Scherff from an OT to and OG, so if anyone can do it, it’s him.

I don’t necessarily believe that it’s a sure thing that Flowers becomes our answer at LG... but I’m telling ya there’s a chance...

[Thaiphoon]

11 minutes ago, Woz said:

*Woz looks around, confused, scared*

No, SERIOUSLY, who are you and what have you done with turtle?!?

@Thaiphoon, help!!!

I know! I liked the post without seeing who it was from and then noticed it said

"Edited by Turtle28"

 

 

[turtle28]

11 minutes ago, Woz said:

*Woz looks around, confused, scared*

No, SERIOUSLY, who are you and what have you done with turtle?!?

@Thaiphoon, help!!!

I’ve been saying similar things for a while. At the same time, after a move is made say - the trade for Alex Smith last year - I’m going to hope that he succeeds and the team succeeds once the move is made.

I’m pretty quick at getting over being upset about a stupid move they make and then hoping it works. I know that makes me different than most in the forum but that’s essentially what happened last year after the Alex trade.

Everyone knows I wanted Kirk signed king term after the 2015 season and I was upset that Bruce and Dan wouldn’t give Kirk the contract he deserved in the 2016 offseason instead, they franchised him. Then, I said last year if they were going to moved on from Kirk that they should go with Colt for a year and draft a QB to develop and I said the same thing this offseason. 

But they traded for two other vets instead so, rather quickly I went from being upset Kirk was gone and Colt isn’t going to be our starter to let’s hope the new guys do well both of the last two offseason.

For example, I don’t want Keenum to be our starter, I don’t even wish we had made the move for him even tough he cost us next to nothing but st the same time I’m a fan and I’m going to hope he plays well. 

[Woz]

7 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

mean Flowers was the 9th overall pick for a reason, he has natural talent and should be a good to great starting offensive lineman in the NFL, it sucks that coaches are going to have to push him to get there but it is what it is. If anyone can do it, I believe it’s Callahan. Callahan developed Moses, Long & Roullier into starters when most of us weren’t sure if they’d ever be starters and most people thought that Long & Moses were busts after his rookie year and they both have become good NFL starters.

At the same time, heart wasn't in question with those guys, just technique. Callahan can and does coach guys' technique up, but if they don't care to put in the effort it just doesn't matter.

Maybe Flowers will beat the odds. Maybe I'll be eating crow about his play in eight months time or so.

 

However, if we're putting money down right now, I feel pretty confident that I would win the bet that he doesn't pan out. Depending on how the draft goes, I might be willing to put money down that he doesn't make the opening day roster.

[turtle28]

9 minutes ago, Woz said:

At the same time, heart wasn't in question with those guys, just technique. Callahan can and does coach guys' technique up, but if they don't care to put in the effort it just doesn't matter.

Maybe Flowers will beat the odds. Maybe I'll be eating crow about his play in eight months time or so.

 

However, if we're putting money down right now, I feel pretty confident that I would win the bet that he doesn't pan out. Depending on how the draft goes, I might be willing to put money down that he doesn't make the opening day roster.

Im confident you’d win the bet too. As I always say, it’s much easier to bet a Redskins long shot move doesn’t pan out rather than it does, but I’m always going to hope their idiotic moves work though because I want them to win. It’s just the way I’m wired, that’s not changing.

[Woz]

4 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I’ve been saying similar things for a while.

Do you really want me to pull out the receipts on McClain and McGee?

 

5 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

At the same time, after a move is made say - the trade for Alex Smith last year - I’m going to hope that he succeeds and the team succeeds once the move is made.

Hope is fine. However, you have to play the odds. We took opposite sides of an unmade bet (so wish I could have gotten you to put down some cash there ) : "What's going to happen in 2018: Alex Smith regresses to his career mean or he replicates his career 2017 year?"

I played the odds. I won. I wanted to be wrong, but I was pretty sure that I would be vindicated in my belief that he would become the Alex Smith that most of the league expects. The injury was just a cherry on top of a crap sundae of a deal and contract.

10 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I’m pretty quick at getting over being upset about a stupid move they make and then hoping it works. I know that makes me different than most in the forum but that’s essentially what happened last year after the Alex trade.

That's not how I recall last year going down ...

11 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Everyone knows I wanted Kirk signed king term after the 2015 season and I was upset that Bruce and Dan wouldn’t give Kirk the contract he deserved in the 2016 offseason instead, they franchised him. Then, I said last year if they were going to moved on from Kirk that they should go with Colt for a year and draft a QB to develop and I said the same thing this offseason. 

But they traded for two other vets instead so, rather quickly I went from being upset Kirk was gone and Colt isn’t going to be our starter to let’s hope the new guys does well. 

And from the perspective of a fan wanting to win now, I get that.

What I don't understand is why if you are a fan of this franchise for the long haul why you want this. Barring arguably the biggest longshot win of a Super Bowl, there is no upside to Case Keenum or Colt McCoy doing well this season. None. If either or the combination succeeds, that keeps Brice in charge and gets them a long term deal, which is almost certainly going to bite us in the butt when they regress back to the player they are.

As painful as it is, accepting/wanting a horrible 2019 season is worth it if it gets Allen fired. If they do horribly and he survives the executioner's axe yet again ... I'm not sure I could bother anymore with this franchise.

[Woz]

7 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

because I want them to win. It’s just the way I’m wired, that’s not changing.

This implies that I don't want them to win.

I do.

I'm just willing to sacrifice some wins in the short term in hopes of getting more over the long term.

Of course, I understand that Brice has an unnatural ability to avoid getting fired for crap that would cause anyone else to get a pink slip. That and incredible inability to use someone else's abilities and success to magnify his own (McCloughan's drafting well? Great, look at the guy I hired on the cheap and redeemed!). He's got an over-inflated but extremely fragile ego combined with a horrific delusion of his own abilities. Dunning-Kruger effect meets Narcissistic Personality Disorder?

[turtle28]

Yay, you won the Alex Smith debate because he broke his leg in two and may never play again, congratsufreakinlations for that! 

I mean really, the Alex Smith trade will never get a chance to pan out bc he has a catastrophic injury that’s probably career ending.

As for McGee and McClain I’m sure you can find something in hundreds of posts over two years to point out or whatever you’d want to waste your time with. I’m almost positive when talking about them I always said I hope or I think this or that will happen with them. I rarely say I’m definite this move will work out.

If I recall my position that offseason was that I’d love to get Calais Campbell and I wanted us to draft him in 08 instead of Sleepy Fred, but I didn't think we had the cap space to sign Campbell bc we were franchising Kirk.

So, when that happens, they had to sign some defensive lineman. They needed people. They chose two DL in their prime who had flashed the year before - especially McCain in Dallas - and hoped they could develop them into good players. The way I see it is that each of those signings were necessary risks bc we needed players there. Remember, this was before the draft too, so we didn't have Allen yet and had no clue that Ioannidis woud take such a big jump in his second year to being starter worthy from barely being roster worthy as a rookie.

Allen & Ioannisis out played both of them, I’m elated they did, more than elated actually! The young guys outplayed the vets that obviously turned the vets from from projected starters  into backups, that much was obvious and pretty much is what happened in 2017.

Again, I couldn't be happier that Allen & Ioannidis made McCain & McGee expendable.

Sure, it can be argued we overpaid for them but, how can we know that for sure? 

None of us that I know of were part of the negotiations nor do we know what other teams were offering them.

[Woz]

22 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Yay, you won the Alex Smith debate because he broke his leg in two and may never play again, congratsufreakinlations for that! 

I won on play on the field. Let's compare based on rates:

• 2018
  • 62.5%, 6.6 YPA, 3.0% TD%, 1.5% INT%, 85.7 RTG
• career minus 2017
  • 61.7%, 6.8 YPA, 3.8% TD%, 2.2% INT%, 85.3 RTG
• career in KC minus 2017
  • 64.5%, 7.0 YPA, 3.9% TD%, 1.5% INT%, 92.2 RTG
• 2017
  • 67.5%, 8.0 YPA, 5.1% TD%, 1.0% INT%, 104.7 RTG

Which was closer to 2018, career averages or 2017?

 

The broken leg just crippled the cap for zero play.

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, Woz said:

I won on play on the field. Let's compare based on rates:

• 2018
  • 62.5%, 6.6 YPA, 3.0% TD%, 1.5% INT%, 85.7 RTG
• career minus 2017
  • 61.7%, 6.8 YPA, 3.8% TD%, 2.2% INT%, 85.3 RTG
• career in KC minus 2017
  • 64.5%, 7.0 YPA, 3.9% TD%, 1.5% INT%, 92.2 RTG
• 2017
  • 67.5%, 8.0 YPA, 5.1% TD%, 1.0% INT%, 104.7 RTG

Which was closer to 2018, career averages or 2017?

 

The broken leg just crippled the cap for zero play.

His top 3 weapons were hurt then, the entire OL got hurt and he got just a little over 1/2 a season in the offense.

It's more an incomplete than the trade didn't work out. The main reason the trade never got a chance to work out was because of the injury.

You can post whatever analysis you want, but how do we know that this year wouldn't have been a better passing season than last year for the Redskins offense if Alex hadn't broken his leg?

The answer is you can't answer that question either way because it will most likely never get to be proven.

[Woz]

17 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

You can post whatever analysis you want, but how do we know that this year wouldn't have been a better passing season than last year for the Redskins offense if Alex hadn't broken his leg?

The answer is you can't answer that question either way because it will most likely never get to be proven.

I would go with: because the talent on the offense has arguably gotten worse (losing Crowder) than what he had last year?

[turtle28]

I can get on board with McCloughan being a great scout and he would’ve been a better GM than what we currently have, I can't get on board that his two drafts for the Redskins were good ones.

In 2015 he had a top 5 pick that panned out in Scherff, Smith was hit or miss and he passed on better defensive talent to take him and a 4th round slot WR in Crowder and what looked like to be a steal in Jarrett as a safety/slot corner but sadly he got hurt and won't play again after his rookie year.

In 2016 his top 2 picks have been busts. Fuller was a great pick and Ioannidis was a steal.

I don't consider that great drafting, truthfully I consider 2015 & 16 two of our worst drafts in the last 25 years alongside the 2008 draft.

[turtle28]

4 minutes ago, Woz said:

I would go with: because the talent on the offense has arguably gotten worse (losing Crowder) than what he had last year?

Hard to say bc free agency and the draft haven't happened yet and for all we know PRich and Doctson could’ve done better with Alex in year two than they did in year one.

Again, that's why the answer is incomplete.