turtle28 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 39 minutes ago, Bo Duke said: You do know that our wr core is pretty much at the bottom of the barrel right? Your going to have a hard time finding many to say otherwise. Why do you think most mocks have us going wr? It sure isn't for the hell of it. Man, we dont even currently have a reciever to be drafted as a wr3 in fantasy football. It's a joke. Doctson is a bust, wasted pick. As high as he was drafted and your holding out hope for a wr2 says it all. You draft people like Michael Thomas instead of Doctson so we don't have this problem. Its just the truth. If Ereck Flowers becomes a serviceable left guard for us he will go down as a bust because he wasn't drafted for that reason. When is his career has Paul Richardson stayed healthy? I'm sure as hell not banking on that one. That's like saying Boy I can't wait till Reed plays a full season cause its never gonna happen. The unknown may or may not be any better. Who knows? But most of us realize the known is clearly not good enough. Our starting recieving core stinks. Not debatable. Our best wr that we had didn't break the bank on the free agent market. What does that tell you? See what Doctson and Richardson can get on the open market. I bet ya it ain't much. That's the reality of our value Maybe I wasn’t clear, I didn’t say our starting WRs were good, I’m just saying they’re better than the back ups and will be better than the WRs who are projected to go around when we pick in round 1 or that we’d take in round 2 or 3 for this season. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t draft one in round 1 or and one in the mid rounds because I would. This WR class is a poor one, they don’t have a top 10 talent either just like the 2016 class didn’t. The thing Doctson has over them is two years of development in this offense which generally means he’s going to start. As for the bolded you’ll have to ask Scot McCloughan what he saw in Doctson over Michael Thomas and Will Fuller. In Doctson I saw an athletic WR that ran bad routes, didn’t have break away speed but has potential mostly just BC he could jump and make tough catches. Maybe I wasn’t clear, I didn’t want any of those WRs in round 1 of the 2016 draft.I wanted to re-sign DJax or Garçon after 2016 and keep one of them long term, preferably Djax. I did want Thomas bc he went to Ohio State and I’m an Ohio State fan, but I certainly didn’t want him in round 1, I wanted him in round 2. I didn’t think Coleman, Doctson or Fuller we’re worth 1st round picks in that draft. And one thing about Michael Thomas, let’s not forget he has the luxury of playing with the most accurate QB in the NFL. In fact, Thomas’ yards per target were 9.6 last year and his ypc was just 11.2, he’s a true possession WR... and people complained about Kirk & Alex not throwing downfield the last 4 years, well a lot of QBs don’t, including two of the best in the NFL, Brady & Brees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 LG positon is solved, we re-signed Zac Kerin, whoever that is? Lol 😂 And, we re-signed Brian Quick so WR is solved too right, RIGHT? Lol 😂 Ugh, were never going to be better than Average with Brice being our team president and having control over our cap/how much $ we spend on FAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 15 hours ago, turtle28 said: Complaing about comp picks while the Redskins have more holes today then when free agency foolish to me, but maybe that's just me. Because Flowers will do nothing to fill those holes (and potentially gives them an excuse not to fill the hole at left guard). So, the comp pick is worth more. Likewise, the DRC pick puts a body in at FS, but it remains to be see if that hole is actually filled. Count me dubious on that front (this feels like another slap a cheap vet at the problem and hope for the best). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 21 minutes ago, turtle28 said: LG positon is solved, we re-signed Zac Kerin, whoever that is? Lol 😂 And, we re-signed Brian Quick so WR is solved too right, RIGHT? Lol 😂 Ugh, were never going to be better than Average with Brice being our team president and having control over our cap/how much $ we spend on FAs. Especially when he makes nutty trades and hands out inexplicably big contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 14 hours ago, MikeT14 said: Trading a 4th for Haha and then "trading" Haha and a 6th for Ereck Flowers is kind of funny though. Funny sad, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 12 hours ago, RSkinGM said: If Flowers doesn't make the opening roster -- let's say they cut him. Do we get the comp pick back ? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 4 hours ago, turtle28 said: Again, any free agent vs the last pick in the 6th round pick I’d take the free agent 10 out of 10 times, especially if the free agent has starting ability. I don't know if he was the last pick in the sixth round, but there was this guy named ... Tim ... Thomas ...? ... I dunno, but he was taken in the compensatory part of the sixth ... did okay in the NFL. Played a bit for the Patriots. Dunno if you heard of him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 3 hours ago, Bo Duke said: I'm not about tanking, win as many as we possibly can. That's just me. That stadium was half empty all last season, screw that. We get some recieving options on offense, I think we will be able to compete at a high level. Our defense is light years better than it was a couple seasons ago It was half empty when they were winning. Tanking had nothing to do with it. The fanbase is tired of this silly rodeo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Woz said: It was half empty when they were winning. Tanking had nothing to do with it. The fanbase is tired of this silly rodeo. The crowds that did show up were nearly split even for most of the games at that. Even starting 6-3 didn't get people into the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 5 hours ago, Bo Duke said: I'm not about tanking, win as many as we possibly can. That's just me. That stadium was half empty all last season, screw that. We get some recieving options on offense, I think we will be able to compete at a high level. Our defense is light years better than it was a couple seasons ago Keeping that stench of mediocrity has kept us in the 7-9 window. Tank for a year or two to finish off the Alex Smith deal would get us a legitimate QB prospect that we don't have to overpay in draft picks to acquire, and give us better talent at each pick at the top of the round. Tanking for two years also gives you a chance to reset some bad contracts. In the NFL, it's not a 5-6 year proposition like it is in the MLB. Honestly, with the team hamstrung by the Alex Smith contract as far as the cap goes, if they win 6 games, they should consider this year an accomplishment. Even if they add a #1 receiver like AJ Green, we just have too many holes to do much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 14 hours ago, Woz said: Because Flowers will do nothing to fill those holes (and potentially gives them an excuse not to fill the hole at left guard). So, the comp pick is worth more. Likewise, the DRC pick puts a body in at FS, but it remains to be see if that hole is actually filled. Count me dubious on that front (this feels like another slap a cheap vet at the problem and hope for the best). Maybe. Or, Callahan gets something out of Flowers’ talent that the Giants OL coach couldn’t and maybe Flowers fits better as an OG because he’ll be facing lesser athletes on the interior which could help him in pass pro. Flowers said Callahan has already seen things on tape and told him ways to improve and what he needs to work on which he said no other coaches saw or told him. We don’t know the answer to that yet. I do agree it’s trying cheap vets - especially in DRC’s case bc at best it’s a stop gap - in Flowers’ case there’s an outside chance he is a better OG than he was OT and he becomes an answer for us. I also agree that signing Flowers gives Allen another excuse not to draft a guard in the early to mid rounds of the draft but at the same time I think they had to do something at LG in free agency, they need a vet option and a young C/OG to compete with him and for depth. I just hope they draft a few C/OG’s - one in the first founds and one late in the draft to develop like we did with Roullier. Remains to be seen on what happens in the draft and if Flowers is any kind of answer at LG. My hope for FS is more that Apke or Nicholson outplay DRC in the way that Moreau outplayed Scandrick last year in the offseason and then we cut DRC in August or September and if DRC did get cut, I am totally fine if our safeties this year are: SS: Collins, Everett FS: Nicholson, Apke or vice versa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 6 hours ago, Woz said: Especially when he makes nutty trades and hands out inexplicably big contracts. No one knows what the market was for Collins and his cap number early on is nearly half of Earl Thomas’ $7 million cap hit this season. You now this, you know more about contracts/how they’re spread out, when teams can get out of them and salary cap than anyone I know. The Collins contract is not a bad one and Brice hasn’t handed out any other big deals but I’m sure you’ll be complaining we have holes all over and no talent when the season starts which most likely will mean we didn’t do enough in free agency to improve the team just like every season of the last 26 years that I can remember. My worry is that we aren’t doing enough right now to improve the team in free agency bc were signing guys like Flowers and especially DRC when there are better safeties available who won’t break the bank either. I would have loved to have signed Mike Mitchell - he helped the Colts secondary when he was signed mid season last year - Tre Boston, Darian Stewart, Glover Quinn, Kendrick Lewis, Ron Parker, Kurt Coleman or Corey Graham. You know, guys who are actually free safeties and have played FS more than 61 snaps in their career. Al Galdi pointed out that DRC has played 61 snaps at FS in his career and then tried to say that that gave him experience at FS, it made me nearly spit out my drink while driving to work! At guard instead of Flowers, we should have re-signed Jonathan Cooper or Quinton Spain - former starting guard of the Titans - I hope I and all of us are wrong about the Flowers signing but all of us have been beating the drum to re-sign Cooper for at worst depth and possibly to start all offseason. The only explanation that I can come up with as to why we haven’t yet is that Cooper wouldn’t agree to a deal like Flowers just signed or less eventhough he hasn’t proven he’s a definite starter in the NFL. Last year Copper signed a one-year $4.95 million dollar deal for San Fran in the offseason, he’s probably looking for the same and we gave Flowers $4 million, maybe Cooper is looking for more. If that’s the case, I hope Cooper’s salary demands lower as FA goes on and if he isn’t signed this summer and we need him that we get him on a vet minimum contract in August. Anyways, it’s not that we are signing guys, it’s that once again and it’s been this way for decades, we are signing the WRONG GUYS!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 6 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said: Keeping that stench of mediocrity has kept us in the 7-9 window. Tank for a year or two to finish off the Alex Smith deal would get us a legitimate QB prospect that we don't have to overpay in draft picks to acquire, and give us better talent at each pick at the top of the round. Tanking for two years also gives you a chance to reset some bad contracts. In the NFL, it's not a 5-6 year proposition like it is in the MLB. Honestly, with the team hamstrung by the Alex Smith contract as far as the cap goes, if they win 6 games, they should consider this year an accomplishment. Even if they add a #1 receiver like AJ Green, we just have too many holes to do much better. Tanking would mean at the least trading or cutting Josh Norman and cutting Foster & VD. If you do that, not only does it help us lose some more games for a higher 2020 draft pick to take Tua, Fromm or Herbert but it also gives us $ 17.5 mil in cap space so that the Alex Smith contract isn’t as big as a drain on our cap and we’d save future cap space to spend to make the team better for when whatever qb we draft is developed. VD can be replaced by Sprinkle in the line up, and a mid to late round TE pick or a cheaper FA TE. Foster’s production can be replaced by players already on the roster, a cheaper ILB free agent or a draft pick. But no, the front office keeps holding onto to these 30 year old vets to remain in mediocrity with these older players, it makes no sense! We need the freaking youth movement to take over in these 3 positons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 8 hours ago, turtle28 said: Maybe. Or, Callahan gets something out of Flowers’ talent that the Giants OL coach couldn’t and maybe Flowers fits better as an OG because he’ll be facing lesser athletes on the interior which could help him in pass pro. Flowers said Callahan has already seen things on tape and told him ways to improve and what he needs to work on which he said no other coaches saw or told him. Okay ... sounds a little "faith, trust, and pixie-dust!"ish(*) to me, but to each their own. Personally, I'm going to look at two separate coaching staffs that couldn't get him to do it, and Giants' fans I know and trust who watched him for four years saying he has no heart/willingness to put in the effort. 8 hours ago, turtle28 said: We don’t know the answer to that yet. No, we don't, but where would you put your personal money on this bet? That it works out or that this is a bust? 8 hours ago, turtle28 said: I do agree it’s trying cheap vets - especially in DRC’s case bc at best it’s a stop gap - in Flowers’ case there’s an outside chance he is a better OG than he was OT and he becomes an answer for us. @minutemancl commented in the News thread about this that Flowers has little-to-no punch and that he could not think of any guard successful at this level with no punch. Again, he's watched the guy for four years; I figure I'll give his experience and insight a little credence. 8 hours ago, turtle28 said: I also agree that signing Flowers gives Allen another excuse not to draft a guard in the early to mid rounds of the draft but at the same time I think they had to do something at LG in free agency, they need a vet option and a young C/OG to compete with him and for depth. I just hope they draft a few C/OG’s - one in the first founds and one late in the draft to develop like we did with Roullier. Except as I've said, I don't think he even gives you depth/competition. As others have said, Flowers is trading off the fact that he was a former first round pick. If he was a second round pick, he wouldn't be getting $4M. Heck, he might be out of the league at this point given his lack of effort. 8 hours ago, turtle28 said: Remains to be seen on what happens in the draft and if Flowers is any kind of answer at LG. My hope for FS is more that Apke or Nicholson outplay DRC in the way that Moreau outplayed Scandrick last year in the offseason and then we cut DRC in August or September and our safeties this year are: SS: Collins, Everett FS: Nicholson, Apke or vice versa I'm on board with that ... except then they tore up an extra draft pick for no reason. That's my whole concern with these two signings: they will contribute nothing to the team (may not even make the roster), but in the process of signing them (when there was no little-to-no market for either of them) you hurt the franchise in the longer term. It's not even short-term thinking, but making-a-move-to-make-a-move thinking. It is a net negative. (*) Of the core, Team Fawn, but of any one, Team Zarina. However, Gruff FTW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 8 hours ago, turtle28 said: 14 hours ago, Woz said: Especially when he makes nutty trades and hands out inexplicably big contracts. No one knows what the market was for Collins and his cap number early on is nearly half of Earl Thomas’ $7 million cap hit this season. For the record, when I wrote that, I was thinking about Alex Smith's deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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