Washington Free Agency 2019

[Skins212689]

I don't want him because they drafted him. I want him because he's a proven WR in the NFL. Even if his spot is just #3 or #4 on the WR depth. Those other guys have to prove themsleves. This would be fair competition and more motivation for them to Earn their spots.

[Woz]

3 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

I don't want him because they drafted him. I want him because he's a proven WR in the NFL. Even if his spot is just #3 or #4 on the WR depth. Those other guys have to prove themsleves. This would be fair competition and more motivation for them to Earn their spots.

Except it wouldn't be because Gruden cannot get around playing "his" guys.

[Thaiphoon]

2 hours ago, turtle28 said:

I just don't understand this thought process and never ever will.

If you can sign a WR who knows the system better than any WR on our roster, just two years ago for your team caught 45 recs for 573 yards and 4 TDs in just 7 games started, he plays special teams and he can compete against Quinn and a rookie for the slot position you should do it.

I definitely don't think Quinn should be handed the slot position job or have no competition but from a rookie. 

This seems like a reasonable signing to me as long as its for the vet minimum or not much more.

I also don't care if Grant is who we think he is. Who we think he is actually isn't as awful as most used think he was before he had 45 recs & 4 tds in 2017.  I can live with our #3 WR/slot WR catching 40-50 passes and 2 to 5 tds a season, that's not awful. That's what I’d expect out of Quinn if he ends up being our slot WR.

We let him go for a reason. He's not getting any better. And he won't ever be anything more than a guy who might be your 4th or 5th WR (if the coaches didn't play favorites). And when he sees the field he underwhelms. He turns what should be 20-30 YAC gains into 10 yarders. And that is when he is able to get separation (which is not a lot)

Which is why I want to go with rookies. I want to see what we have in them. Every rep a limited WR like Quick or Grant takes in OTAs and Camp is one less rep the coaches don't get to see out of the rookies. You cannot keep hanging onto every vet you see just because they might get middling results. I need more from my WR corps.

I mean, he lasted exactly one season with the Colts, Turtle. Come on. Even THEY don't want him

[Thaiphoon]

1 hour ago, Woz said:

What you just quoted there is effectively his ceiling. For further evidence, I give you the following numbers: 38, 43, 57, and 28. Those represent the percentages for his career of those 45 catches, 573 yards, 4 touchdowns, and 7 starts.

Maybe Quinn is the next coming of Edelman. Maybe Quinn's a scrub nobody. However, it's going to be harder to find out and harder from him to adjust to the NFL if you are splitting his time, especially with a guy the coach tends to inexplicably keep giving chances to.

Keep in mind he's done those numbers once in his career. His other years?

Catches: 7, 23, 9, 35
Yards: 68, 268, 76, 334
TDs: 0, 2, 0, 1
Starts: 2, 5, 1, 10 (so don't go saying he didn't get any chances)

The Colts paid a 1y, $5M contract for Washington's JAG receiver, and they got a 5th round compensatory pick out of it. No need to return the "favor."

 

*whispers* play. the. odds.

THANK YOU!!

Someone else who gets it!

[Thaiphoon]

2 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

Some are talking like there is a WR on the team that has earned thier spot. All WR's should getting some competition and the team should be looking to add more talent to that spot. The idea of bringing in a player who knows the system is taking away from who? 

From the new WRs you need to bring in who will need the reps and the looks from the coaches. Can't get them if JAGs like Quick and Grant are sucking down their reps.

Quote

Someone who doesn't and would have to learn and possibly not get the job done. Grant would be the most proven and consistent WR on the team if he where to sign. Plus he knows the system.

Consistently mediocre. Sorry. He's not a great WR. He's not even underwhelming. He doesn't even whelm to begin with. 

[Thaiphoon]

1 hour ago, Woz said:

Umm ... no.

Thai was talking about wanting to see if Sims could replicate what he showed in preseason last year with more reps. Given that Richardson is unlikely to make it through a season and Doctson is almost assuredly gone this time next year, seeing what they have in the next in a guy who showed flashes last year as a rookie makes a bit of sense, no? Yes, he absolutely could bust out, but out of the Richardson and Doctson, he's shown the most of the guys on the roster behind them. No, that's not saying a lot, but give the kid a chance.

As for Quinn, part of the interest there is his track record of succeeding at every level. He's got a bit of a chip on his shoulder from being named Mr. Irrelevant. Why not feed into that and let him run with that?

Oh, and no one has mentioned Robert Davis's name that I can recall (until you posted this), much less said he has a guaranteed spot on the roster.

 

Yes, none of the guys in the receiving corps should feel that their job is safe. The wide receivers last year caught a total of 145 balls. Even though Richardson (13.8% of last year's total) is probably safe due to his contract, he could easily be gonzo next year if he doesn't show anything now. Doctson's (30.3%) essentially playing out the string/hoping to make a big splash in his contract year. Quinn is actually third (6.2%) of returning incumbents. The others? Quick's (2.1%) a JAG that we inexplicably brought back. Again. Darvin Kidsy and Jehu Chesson each caught a ball for 0.7% a piece.

The rest left the building with Crowder (20%), Maurice Harris (19.3%), and Michael Floyd of all people (6.9%). So, no, no one should feel safe. At the same time, there's opportunities to be had there for the young guys. Don't bother with Grant and Quick; you know what they are and what this is essentially a dime a dozen receiver.

GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!! 

Spot on (especially the bolded)

Remember when Phillip Daniels went down right before the season. 

And I said we should just go with "next man up" in Demetric Evans.

But the team traded for "Warmup" (Jason Taylor) instead. I was completely against that trade. Not just because of what we gave up. But for the fact that we were not giving our players who were the "next man up" the chance to prove themselves and show that the development we put into them was paying off. 

And what happened? "Warmup" didn't do squat for us. And Evans turned out to have a few more years of good play. Was he a world beater once he got to start? Nope. But he did okay as a starter. But we never would've known either way about him unless we got him the practice reps and into the games to see what he could do.

[Thaiphoon]

1 hour ago, Woz said:

Except it wouldn't be because Gruden cannot get around playing "his" guys.

There's a reason why his nickname was "Ryan Gruden"

[turtle28]

9 hours ago, Woz said:

What you just quoted there is effectively his ceiling. For further evidence, I give you the following numbers: 38, 43, 57, and 28. Those represent the percentages for his career of those 45 catches, 573 yards, 4 touchdowns, and 7 starts.

Maybe Quinn is the next coming of Edelman. Maybe Quinn's a scrub nobody. However, it's going to be harder to find out and harder from him to adjust to the NFL if you are splitting his time, especially with a guy the coach tends to inexplicably keep giving chances to.

Keep in mind he's done those numbers once in his career. His other years?

Catches: 7, 23, 9, 35
Yards: 68, 268, 76, 334
TDs: 0, 2, 0, 1
Starts: 2, 5, 1, 10 (so don't go saying he didn't get any chances)

The Colts paid a 1y, $5M contract for Washington's JAG receiver, and they got a 5th round compensatory pick out of it. No need to return the "favor."

 

*whispers* play. the. odds.

Its a depth signing, why wouldn't we sign a reliable depth WR to compete for the slot job?

Signing Grant hurts nothing, it's just competition for depth. Being against it seems foolish to me. Basically the way I see it is of you’re against signing an average WR like Grant is that you're saying you're against having good reliable depth that can compete with our young guys who we hope develop and beat him out but, they may not.

Basically, if you don’t want to sign a guy like Grant, you don’t want competition for our young guys; you just want to hand them jobs! I’m for competition, I’m for competition at every positon. Grant brings competition for Quinn. There should be nothing wrong with Competition.

I personally think that Gruden loves Quinn as much or maybe even more than Ryan Gruden. That being said, this is an ”incase ish signing, ” I do honestly think Quinn has potential to be the next Edleman or Welker type but I don't know that for sure, and it would be good to have reliable depth that knows the system better than any WR on the roster. 

As for the ”comp pick” why do I care? It's not like we have to give a 5th to the Colts and we aren't going to sign him to a 1-year $5 million deal, I said vet minimum deal. I don't think the colts get a comp pick off of a vet min contract, but maybe they get a 7th. Either way, we don't lose a draft pick, so I don't care.

Also, I think we should sign Rashad Ross again to give him a chance to make the roster again as a depth player and situational deep threat. If you remember, Gruden liked Grant and his reliable/possession skills better and McCloughan liked Ross’ potential as a deep threat better. I thought back in 2016 we should’ve kept both guys on our roster and continued to develop Ross as a short and intermediate route runner. Personally, I’d like to see both have a chance to compete for a roster spot against Quinn, Sims, Davis, Quick and a WR we draft in the first half of the draft and one we draft late.

We need competition at WR, I want the best competition for a cheap cost that we can can get to fill out the back end of our WR core behind PRich and Doctson. I think Grant and Rashad Ross could give us that more than Quick. I'd love Davis, Quinn and Sims to beat out a Grant and Ross should we sign then, but if they don't, I want the best WRs we can get. 

[turtle28]

4 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

We let him go for a reason. He's not getting any better. And he won't ever be anything more than a guy who might be your 4th or 5th WR (if the coaches didn't play favorites). And when he sees the field he underwhelms. He turns what should be 20-30 YAC gains into 10 yarders. And that is when he is able to get separation (which is not a lot)

Which is why I want to go with rookies. I want to see what we have in them. Every rep a limited WR like Quick or Grant takes in OTAs and Camp is one less rep the coaches don't get to see out of the rookies. You cannot keep hanging onto every vet you see just because they might get middling results. I need more from my WR corps.

I mean, he lasted exactly one season with the Colts, Turtle. Come on. Even THEY don't want him

No, we let Grant go bc we weren't going to pay an average WR $5 million for a season. I'm sure if we could have re-signed Grant for $900,000 to $2 million, That we would have re-signed Grant last year and frankly, we needed him. After Crowder & PRich went out, we had no one who could step up and replace them and Doctson couldn't get open going against #1 corners/when he was the focus of the coverage.

Last year, Grant would've at least been a reliable vet who knew the offense better than anyone for Alex, but he wasn't worth $5 million. 

Still, there's no doubt in my mind that  Grant is worth what Quick is going to get paid or more. He's definitely shown more than Quick has for us and Allen has continuously re-signed Quick since 2017. 

[turtle28]

Should we sign Dontrelle Inman?

Last year in the second half of the year he emerged for the Colts as Hilton and Grant were battling injuries. 

He played in 7 of the last 8 games for the Colts last season, Inman had 28 recs for 304 yards with 3 TDs in 7 games. And in each of his two games in the playoffs last year he had 4 receptions and he had 1 TD in the playoffs. These are certainly numbers we hope that Doctson would put up if you extrapolate them over an entire season.

Inman averaged 4 receptions a game in the games he played and also in the playoffs he averaged 4 recs at 13 ypc. So, extrapolate that out and his ceiling is a 64 catch, 780 yd, 7 TD receiver.

Thats a good #2 or 3 WR if he has the ceiling to do that over the course of a season.

He has good size, 6’3, he’s from UVA - which should satisfy Woz - and again he played well down the stretch for the Colts last year. I honestly don't know why a guy like him hasn't been signed either instead of Bruce continuing to re-sign Brian Quick! 

I actually think Inman could beat out Doctson and be the starter opposite PRich to start the season bc he seems like a more consistent route runner with more consistent hands even if he doesn’t have Doctson’s athleticism. 

[turtle28]

7 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

From the new WRs you need to bring in who will need the reps and the looks from the coaches. Can't get them if JAGs like Quick and Grant are sucking down their reps.

Consistently mediocre. Sorry. He's not a great WR. He's not even underwhelming. He doesn't even whelm to begin with. 

Well for 1, I’ve never claimed Grant to be anything than a reliable jag/mediocre. I’ve never claimed him to be great, I too know what he is and I actually like what he is for a back up WR.

Consistently mediocre is what I want out of my #4 WR bc I know I can at least count on the guy to come in, run the right routes and catch 3 to 5 balls a game if a starter goes down and help keep our passing game a float like Grant did in 2017.  We actually needed that last year and didn’t have it - I thought we would with Harris but didn’t - when Crowder and PRich went down with injuries. We need that out of a back up, a WR who doesn’t even get to start every game but can come in and at least produce something. That’s what we need. That’s more consistent than what Doctson has given us in 3 years.

 

[Woz]

5 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Its a depth signing, why wouldn't we sign a reliable depth WR to compete for the slot job?

Signing Grant hurts nothing, it's just competition for depth. Being against it seems foolish to me. Basically the way I see it is of you’re against signing an average WR like Grant is that you're saying you're against having good reliable depth that can compete with our young guys who we hope develop and beat him out but, they may not.

Because as I said, it would not be a fair competition. Grant would get the nod over Quinn because he's Gruden's guy.

As for whether he would be reliable ... I think Thai's already addressed this.

5 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Basically, if you don’t want to sign a guy like Grant, you don’t want competition for our young guys; you just want to hand them jobs! I’m for competition, I’m for competition at every positon. Grant brings competition for Quinn. There should be nothing wrong with Competition.

I am perfectly comfortable with Washington using their 2nd or one of the 3rds to get another WR. I would be okay with them doing that and spending a 6th on a second one. I hope they bring in multiple UDFAs.

I'm not against competition. I just want to see meaningful competition. Competing against Grant is meaningful. It's just giving a guy whose ceiling we've seen a roster spot because ... reasons?

6 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Also, I think we should sign Rashad Ross again to give him a chance to make the roster again as a depth player and situational deep threat. If you remember, Gruden liked Grant and his reliable/possession skills better and McCloughan liked Ross’ potential as a deep threat better. I thought back in 2016 we should’ve kept both guys on our roster and continued to develop Ross as a short and intermediate route runner. Personally, I’d like to see both have a chance to compete for a roster spot against Quinn, Sims, Davis, Quick and a WR we draft in the first half of the draft and one we draft late.

I would be okay with bringing back Ross. We haven't seen his ceiling and maybe he can break through.

What I don't want to see is Quick and Grant making the final roster. As it stands right now, if Grant was signed, they would. And they would offer the team nothing, neither in terms of 2019 or going forward. What you've seen from those two is what you will get. Let them go.

 

[Woz]

5 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Should we sign Dontrelle Inman?

Last year in the second half of the year he emerged for the Colts as Hilton and Grant were battling injuries. 

He played in 7 of the last 8 games for the Colts last season, Inman had 28 recs for 304 yards with 3 TDs in 7 games. And in each of his two games in the playoffs last year he had 4 receptions and he had 1 TD in the playoffs. These are certainly numbers we hope that Doctson would put up if you extrapolate them over an entire season.

Inman averaged 4 receptions a game in the games he played and also in the playoffs he averaged 4 recs at 13 ypc. So, extrapolate that out and his ceiling is a 64 catch, 780 yd, 7 TD receiver.

Thats a good #2 or 3 WR if he has the ceiling to do that over the course of a season.

He has good size, 6’3, he’s from UVA - which should satisfy Woz - and again he played well down the stretch for the Colts last year. I honestly don't know why a guy like him hasn't been signed either instead of Bruce continuing to re-sign Brian Quick! 

I actually think Inman could beat out Doctson and be the starter opposite PRich to start the season bc he seems like a more consistent route runner with more consistent hands even if he doesn’t have Doctson’s athleticism. 

To be honest, I had forgotten he was a Hoo.

I wouldn't really count on him due to his injury history (potentially a cheaper version of Richardson?), but if it is going to come down to him versus Grant, I'll take Inman because he at least has averaged 2.0 ypa more than Grant has over his career.

[Skins212689]

34 minutes ago, Woz said:

Because as I said, it would not be a fair competition. Grant would get the nod over Quinn because he's Gruden's guy.

As for whether he would be reliable ... I think Thai's already addressed this.

I am perfectly comfortable with Washington using their 2nd or one of the 3rds to get another WR. I would be okay with them doing that and spending a 6th on a second one. I hope they bring in multiple UDFAs.

I'm not against competition. I just want to see meaningful competition. Competing against Grant is meaningful. It's just giving a guy whose ceiling we've seen a roster spot because ... reasons?

I would be okay with bringing back Ross. We haven't seen his ceiling and maybe he can break through.

What I don't want to see is Quick and Grant making the final roster. As it stands right now, if Grant was signed, they would. And they would offer the team nothing, neither in terms of 2019 or going forward. What you've seen from those two is what you will get. Let them go.

 

Your saying this because of Gruden being the coach. So if a new coach brung in Grant as a proven 3-5 WR, would you still think those other guys wouldn't get thier shot to beat him for his spot? 

[Woz]

19 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

Your saying this because of Gruden being the coach. So if a new coach brung in Grant as a proven 3-5 WR, would you still think those other guys wouldn't get thier shot to beat him for his spot? 

I would still be less than enthused because I don't think Grant gives them anything. However, at least it would be more of a fair competition, so I would understand it.

I did say I would be okay bringing back Rashad Ross or bringing in Inman. I question whether either of those guys would be competing with Quinn for the slot position, so I'm not sure it would be fair to say "let's have a faceoff with those guys." But I'm not against forcing people to compete for their spot. I just want the competition to make sense. Picking Grant back gives the team nothing going forward and potentially stunts those young guys from developing.