tyler735 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 13 minutes ago, BAConrad said: lol so Watson's already a surefire franchise QB but Wentz is TBD? ................ Yep that is exactly what I said as my direct quote can be seen below in reference to Wentz and Watson: "Both have shown promise at this point..Nothing more..Nothing less. It's still very early in their careers." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 1 hour ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said: Wentz is 20 games into his career. Watson is 5. When can we start drawing conclusions about Wentz at an NFL QB if he is still "unproven"? Wentz was a good rookie QB, he was completely average in the scope of the entire NFL, but he was very good for a rookie. This year, Wentz has already shown massive strides from week 1 to week 5. Anyone who has watched him play the past few weeks would know that he is playing at a much higher level than last year. But I am not saying all this to pimp out Wentz, I am saying this because your argument makes absolutely no sense. Wentz HAS proven things in the NFL. Watson hasn't. The fact that you are willing to claim otherwise makes me seriously question how you are evaluating these QBs. If your argument is both teams will be happy when the dust settles, so be it, but if that is your argument how can you possibly say they would still complete the trade right now. The Eagles appear to have their franchise QB and are in first place in their division in his second year. The Browns are the worst team in football and have holes at numerous positions. Are you telling me the Browns should really accept this kind of performance from their team, when they could have a promising second year QB leading their team instead? The answer seems pretty obvious to me. No he was average at best for a rookie. Not taking the whole rookie thing into account he was certainly below average last season. Obviously a lot can change, but lets not pretend he was playing "good for a rookie" last season. Statistically Dak Prescott played much better last season. Going back the year prior in 2015 both Winston and Mariota had better rookie seasons than Wentz. So yeah at this point Wentz has hardly proven anything more in comparison to Watson. They both have had a good start to the 2017 season, we will see if they both can maintain it, but using a mediocre at best rookie season for Wentz to say he's "proven" himself is absurd. There is no denying Wentz is "playing at a much higher level than last year" as you mentioned...That was a very low bar to surpass, and he's done well so far surpassing it this season. If I'm not mistaken we are just over a quarter of the way into the season, and the Browns have the youngest roster in the NFL they will hopefully show improvement over the course of the season. Their average age on the 53 man roster is 24 years old. Also they just got Myles Garrett into the lineup who looks like he could be a force with 2 sacks in his 1st game. Lets not pretend this isn't to be expected with the Browns at this point. They are building for the future not the present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 The Dak thing has been discussed Ad Nauseum, is he a good QB? Yes. Did he perform better than Wentz last season? Yes. Did he have an all around much better supporting cast around him as well as lady luck on his side last season? Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenMean69 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Danger said: The Dak thing has been discussed Ad Nauseum, is he a good QB? Yes. Did he perform better than Wentz last season? Yes. Did he have an all around much better supporting cast around him as well as lady luck on his side last season? Absolutely. not teo mention went into a team that has been in place with its system for some time ... Unlike Wentz where Not only was he a rookie , they had a Rookie HC and the whole team was on a new system. Wont even get into the Chip destroying anything with the slightest talent off team . I learned a long time ago if the browns pass on him , he is the guy you want . If the browns chose him , he will be a bust . Its just insane they cant get their **** together after all this time . Even if the Browns did find the right guy ..... They would not give him a chance before swapping him out . I dont think I have ever seen them stick with a guy through his ups and downs . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenMean69 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 18 minutes ago, tyler735 said: No he was average at best for a rookie. Not taking the whole rookie thing into account he was certainly below average last season. Obviously a lot can change, but lets not pretend he was playing "good for a rookie" last season. Statistically Dak Prescott played much better last season. Going back the year prior in 2015 both Winston and Mariota had better rookie seasons than Wentz. So yeah at this point Wentz has hardly proven anything more in comparison to Watson. They both have had a good start to the 2017 season, we will see if they both can maintain it, but using a mediocre at best rookie season for Wentz to say he's "proven" himself is absurd. There is no denying Wentz is "playing at a much higher level than last year" as you mentioned...That was a very low bar to surpass, and he's done well so far surpassing it this season. If I'm not mistaken we are just over a quarter of the way into the season, and the Browns have the youngest roster in the NFL they will hopefully show improvement over the course of the season. Their average age on the 53 man roster is 24 years old. Also they just got Myles Garrett into the lineup who looks like he could be a force with 2 sacks in his 1st game. Lets not pretend this isn't to be expected with the Browns at this point. They are building for the future not the present. you mean if Garret can stay healthy ... So you thik the browns getting rid of Vets is a good idea ? I mean why not they have tried everything else .... But Id trust more in the browns being the browns .... They have All the Cap money , but they cant go and spend on a good Kicker ? Im guessing you didnt watch many Eagles games last year . Because playing good and having good stats are two different things . Its a team game and you can only do so much when your WR's are dropping everything thrown to them . Does not help having a Rookie HC coming in to clean up the mess chip Kelly made. Most people that know football and watched Wentz saw how good he can be even with a not so great Stats wise season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Eaglesfan Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 33 minutes ago, GreenMean69 said: you mean if Garret can stay healthy ... So you thik the browns getting rid of Vets is a good idea ? I mean why not they have tried everything else .... But Id trust more in the browns being the browns .... They have All the Cap money , but they cant go and spend on a good Kicker ? Im guessing you didnt watch many Eagles games last year . Because playing good and having good stats are two different things . Its a team game and you can only do so much when your WR's are dropping everything thrown to them . Does not help having a Rookie HC coming in to clean up the mess chip Kelly made. Most people that know football and watched Wentz saw how good he can be even with a not so great Stats wise season This is accurate but even his stats weren't that bad... He through for 3,800 yards and 16 TDs... Yeah he struggled with INTs, and he made a lot of rookie mistakes, but he certainly played well for a rookie. Anyone saying otherwise either didn't watch him play or is attempting to sway the argument towards their bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 37 minutes ago, GreenMean69 said: you mean if Garret can stay healthy ... So you thik the browns getting rid of Vets is a good idea ? I mean why not they have tried everything else .... But Id trust more in the browns being the browns .... They have All the Cap money , but they cant go and spend on a good Kicker ? Im guessing you didnt watch many Eagles games last year . Because playing good and having good stats are two different things . Its a team game and you can only do so much when your WR's are dropping everything thrown to them . Does not help having a Rookie HC coming in to clean up the mess chip Kelly made. Most people that know football and watched Wentz saw how good he can be even with a not so great Stats wise season So were injuries a pretty big concern for Garrett coming out? They weren't, so how relevant is this comment? Yeah I think it was a good idea to get rid of some of the vets that they had there that had likely gotten into some bad professional habits after years in a pretty toxic organization with previous regimes. Joe Thomas, and Joel Bitonio are still around, so I know they kept some of their quality vets. You are correct I only watched a few Eagles games last year, but I did see quite a few Wentz highlights as I was curious about how he'd done as a rookie, and my point still stands he was average at best for a rookie. I can look at him objectively without a green tinted glasses clouding my judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Eaglesfan Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, tyler735 said: So were injuries a pretty big concern for Garrett coming out? They weren't, so how relevant is this comment? Yeah I think it was a good idea to get rid of some of the vets that they had there that had likely gotten into some bad professional habits after years in a pretty toxic organization with previous regimes. Joe Thomas, and Joel Bitonio are still around, so I know they kept some of their quality vets. You are correct I only watched a few Eagles games last year, but I did see quite a few Wentz highlights as I was curious about how he'd done as a rookie, and my point still stands he was average at best for a rookie. I can look at him objectively without a green tinted glasses clouding my judgement. Ah the classic, "I watched the highlights, so I know what I am saying." Why don't you ask what our divisional rival fans what they thought about Wentz last year, sure they would be able to paint you a better picture than the one you have constructed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said: Ah the classic, "I watched the highlights, so I know what I am saying." Why don't you ask what our divisional rival fans what they thought about Wentz last year, sure they would be able to paint you a better picture than the one you have constructed. Ah the classic, "go ask this group of people they will tell you how my teams player was great". If only there were highlight vids with literally every throw he made his rookie season right on youtube... I'll give you this, he was easily the 2nd best rookie QB in the NFC East last season. Compared to other rookie QB's as of late he was average at best. He's improved this year, but has still proven very little in the grand scheme of things, but he is certainly trending upward this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Eaglesfan Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 10 minutes ago, tyler735 said: Ah the classic, "go ask this group of people they will tell you how my teams player was great". Why would our divisional rival fans want to pimp out Wentz when we finished last in our division last year? I only said that because you claim that we are analyzing this incorrectly due to our fandom. 10 minutes ago, tyler735 said: If only there were highlight vids with literally every throw he made his rookie season right on youtube... I really don't think this gives the same context as watching the games at all. You can examine mechanics and specific decisions, but you are missing a ton of context an entire game would offer. 10 minutes ago, tyler735 said: I'll give you this, he was easily the 2nd best rookie QB in the NFC East last season. I agree. 10 minutes ago, tyler735 said: Compared to other rookie QB's as of late he was average at best. You are wrong. Compare him to most of the rookie QBs post Luck/Wilson who have started year one and tell me if you still believe this is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenMean69 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 1 hour ago, tyler735 said: So were injuries a pretty big concern for Garrett coming out? They weren't, so how relevant is this comment? Yeah I think it was a good idea to get rid of some of the vets that they had there that had likely gotten into some bad professional habits after years in a pretty toxic organization with previous regimes. Joe Thomas, and Joel Bitonio are still around, so I know they kept some of their quality vets. You are correct I only watched a few Eagles games last year, but I did see quite a few Wentz highlights as I was curious about how he'd done as a rookie, and my point still stands he was average at best for a rookie. I can look at him objectively without a green tinted glasses clouding my judgement. LOL Highlights do not show even a 1/4 of what he did last year . Wentz played Well above average then most rookie QBs , I think your Brown stained glasses wont let you see it. The kid was the 3rd string up until 8 days before season started and did not play much in Preseason do to a injury and not taking chances with our shiney new pony . Myles did have some injures in College .. one being that same foot he hurt in Preseason . How many times he get hurt in less then a year alreayd 3 ? 4 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 3 hours ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said: You are wrong. Compare him to most of the rookie QBs post Luck/Wilson who have started year one and tell me if you still believe this is true. Why post Luck/Wilson? Wentz would have been the 4th best rookie in that 2012 class behind RG3, Wilson, and Luck. Those 3 all had good rookie seasons. Wentz wasn't on that level as a rookie. He would have been the 3rd best rookie QB in 2015 behind Mariota and Winston. He was 2nd best out of rookies last season. At this rate so far this season Watson looks better than Wentz did as a rookie. If he wasn't on those levels of the past 5 years than he wasn't what I consider good, he was average, and there's nothing wrong with that. He's shown improvement so far this season, and that is obviously the most important thing for Eagles fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 2 hours ago, GreenMean69 said: LOL Highlights do not show even a 1/4 of what he did last year . Wentz played Well above average then most rookie QBs , I think your Brown stained glasses wont let you see it. The kid was the 3rd string up until 8 days before season started and did not play much in Preseason do to a injury and not taking chances with our shiney new pony . Myles did have some injures in College .. one being that same foot he hurt in Preseason . How many times he get hurt in less then a year alreayd 3 ? 4 ? I'm a Saints fan, so I don't think my Black and Gold glasses are getting in the way here, but those pesky green ones sure seem to be doing a number on a certain fanbase involved in this trade LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLick12 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Yeah, wentzs rookie season wasn't that impressive when you look at the numbers and consistentcy of his play. But what I would say was impressive was the load of responsibility that was put on him as a rookie. How many rookies attempt the amount of throws he did, all while throwing to arguably the worst receiving corps in the NFL? He was asked to do a lot and had pretty good command of the offense for a guy that hardly played during the preseason. He started out very hot, but showed some mechanics issues and struggled under pressure as many rookies do as the season went on. i was confident after his rookie year that he'd take a positive step into year two, but those that questioned his mechanics and whether he would be a franchise QB were certainly still within the right to do so. He's quickly proving that now though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Eaglesfan Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 hour ago, tyler735 said: Why post Luck/Wilson? Wentz would have been the 4th best rookie in that 2012 class behind RG3, Wilson, and Luck. Those 3 all had good rookie seasons. Wentz wasn't on that level as a rookie. He would have been the 3rd best rookie QB in 2015 behind Mariota and Winston. He was 2nd best out of rookies last season. At this rate so far this season Watson looks better than Wentz did as a rookie. If he wasn't on those levels of the past 5 years than he wasn't what I consider good, he was average, and there's nothing wrong with that. He's shown improvement so far this season, and that is obviously the most important thing for Eagles fans You say he was at best average and then cite all of the best rookie QB performances for the past 6 years. What about the number of rookie starters that would be placed below him? I believe you have proven my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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