Micro-Mafia Games - Game 2, Jester Mafia - Night Thusday @ 10pm EST

[Scoundrel]

Well to be fair I was doing the same thing as you Swag trying to draw interest with a Jester type of fake although I never even claimed jester. What I don’t understand is your frustration with me but you wanting a pass for you? You want to deflect attention now. You are scummier than the day is long. 

[SwAg]

1 minute ago, Counselor said:

Well to be fair I was doing the same thing as you Swag trying to draw interest with a Jester type of fake although I never even claimed jester. What I don’t understand is your frustration with me but you wanting a pass for you? You want to deflect attention now. You are scummier than the day is long. 

What?

[SwAg]

Counselor, you need to stop maintaining the "I didn't claim Jester" thing.  At least five people in the thread understood the clear and logical inference from your posts.  I had established the Jester fake, and telegraphed as best I could that it was fake, as evidenced by Malfatron repeatedly saying he understood, and him providing a running critique of the fake.  With that context, you plunged us into chaos and this WIFOM because you felt like it, and opened the door for Orca's antics yesterday.

I told you I understood why you claimed it, and I still do.  You might not have read me as Town, which would make sense for you trying to bluff me.  It was the example I used to contrast Orca and Dingo's claims, which didn't make sense.  If you all seriously think Orca's antics made sense, ******* explain it to me rather than faulting me for not finding it credible.  Dingo, meanwhile, claimed he was Jester and cited some anecdotal evidence, then claimed it was a joke because "everyone was doing it," but only Counselor and I did it at that point.

It was critical in my analysis for Rick/Orca.  Now, you're all pretending it just didn't happen.

[rackcs]

I'm on my phone now so I can no longer quote your post and go point by point but I'll try to address some of your main points.

You're saying that I'm making up intents but the point is that nobody knows anybody's intents in this game. The only thing we can do is take actions and results and try to infer intents. And also sometimes that means ignoring stated intents because as you know, people lie in this game.

You can point out how I pushed the orca lynch which is fair but you're ignoring my whole point there about how you pushed it earlier than anyone else without voting. And you say you spent all day on pickle going back and forth on orca but that just further proves my point. You started the whole day phase talking about how orca was faking jester and likely mafia and yet you still stuck on pickle for some reason?

And you say that you tell your scum mates to not talk to you but that doesn't mean they listen. Squire could've been thinking for himself and not just mindlessly following your orders when he decided to interact with you. That would also explain why you didn't interact back. 

And you're saying that I'm being a hypocrite with my reasoning but so were you earlier when you were pointing out how pickle and I interacted with squire while obviously ignoring how poorly your interactions with him went.

I also very much disagree with your assertion of me cherry picking to fit a narrative. I have two clearly defined arguments (your interactions with squire are scummy and your push/nonpush of orca was scummy) and then provided quotes as evidence. That's how it works.

And if you think I was faking being afk I can prove I was at the movies. I went with my dad to see John wick at 7 on Tuesday. You can hold that against me if you wish but oh well, I can't help that and it has nothing to do with me being scum or not.

[Scoundrel]

1 minute ago, SwAg said:

Counselor, you need to stop maintaining the "I didn't claim Jester" thing.  At least five people in the thread understood the clear and logical inference from your posts.  I had established the Jester fake, and telegraphed as best I could that it was fake, as evidenced by Malfatron repeatedly saying he understood, and him providing a running critique of the fake.  With that context, you plunged us into chaos and this WIFOM because you felt like it, and opened the door for Orca's antics yesterday.

I told you I understood why you claimed it, and I still do.  You might not have read me as Town, which would make sense for you trying to bluff me.  It was the example I used to contrast Orca and Dingo's claims, which didn't make sense.  If you all seriously think Orca's antics made sense, ******* explain it to me rather than faulting me for not finding it credible.  Dingo, meanwhile, claimed he was Jester and cited some anecdotal evidence, then claimed it was a joke because "everyone was doing it," but only Counselor and I did it at that point.

It was critical in my analysis for Rick/Orca.  Now, you're all pretending it just didn't happen.

So do you believe Dingo is really the jester? Why would he back off the claim?

[SwAg]

Why would he not back off the claim if he's still trying to win?

[Scoundrel]

1 minute ago, SwAg said:

Why would he not back off the claim if he's still trying to win?

Do you believe he is the Jester

[Scoundrel]

Unvote

[Dome]

Votes - Please check accuracy.

1 rack - swag

1 swag - rackcs

 

no vote - counselor

 

Haven't Voted: Pickle Rick, Dingoladd

 

[SwAg]

2 minutes ago, rackcs said:

I'm on my phone now so I can no longer quote your post and go point by point but I'll try to address some of your main points.

You're saying that I'm making up intents but the point is that nobody knows anybody's intents in this game. The only thing we can do is take actions and results and try to infer intents. And also sometimes that means ignoring stated intents because as you know, people lie in this game.

You can point out how I pushed the orca lynch which is fair but you're ignoring my whole point there about how you pushed it earlier than anyone else without voting. And you say you spent all day on pickle going back and forth on orca but that just further proves my point. You started the whole day phase talking about how orca was faking jester and likely mafia and yet you still stuck on pickle for some reason?

And you say that you tell your scum mates to not talk to you but that doesn't mean they listen. Squire could've been thinking for himself and not just mindlessly following your orders when he decided to interact with you. That would also explain why you didn't interact back. 

And you're saying that I'm being a hypocrite with my reasoning but so were you earlier when you were pointing out how pickle and I interacted with squire while obviously ignoring how poorly your interactions with him went.

I also very much disagree with your assertion of me cherry picking to fit a narrative. I have two clearly defined arguments (your interactions with squire are scummy and your push/nonpush of orca was scummy) and then provided quotes as evidence. That's how it works.

And if you think I was faking being afk I can prove I was at the movies. I went with my dad to see John wick at 7 on Tuesday. You can hold that against me if you wish but oh well, I can't help that and it has nothing to do with me being scum or not.

Yeah, you're inferring based upon consequence.  The fact that you don't know anyone's intents is irrelevant.  I want you to re-read what I said there, because this is either a blatant misinterpretation or you're not understanding.  You are drawing no distinction between the effect of my action and the contemporaneous intent of my action.  You're not even attempting to obscure the fact that you're doing that.  You just keep repeating it.

You're not answering my question.  And you're not even interpreting what I said correctly.  You're taking it as an attack on you.  It's not.  I'm asking for you to tell me how I was wrong yesterday.  I know you seemingly like to over rely on conclusions and outcomes, but I would like you to tell me why.

I have interactions with squire.  I have secondary interactions with squire.  I never attempted to hide the interactions.   In fact, I've emphasized one of those interactions immensely, which is the secondary interaction you're intent on minimizing and claiming had no effect, and is actually evidence to the contrary.  They were unrelated to what I was explaining in relation to Pickle earlier.  

No, rack, you do not get to disagree on cherry picking.  What you're doing is the literal definition of cherry picking.  If you don't believe me, look it up.  You're omitting context and countervailing evidence, and seemingly acknowledge that while maintaining it's not true.

9 minutes ago, Counselor said:

Do you believe he is the Jester

I detailed it already.

I think the possibilities are:

Pickle - Mafia or Jester

Dingo - Town or Jester

Counselor - Town or Jester

Rack - Town or Mafia.

Of those, I think Dingo is the most likely.

[rackcs]

6 minutes ago, SwAg said:

Yeah, you're inferring based upon consequence.  The fact that you don't know anyone's intents is irrelevant.  I want you to re-read what I said there, because this is either a blatant misinterpretation or you're not understanding.  You are drawing no distinction between the effect of my action and the contemporaneous intent of my action.  You're not even attempting to obscure the fact that you're doing that.  You just keep repeating it.

You're not answering my question.  And you're not even interpreting what I said correctly.  You're taking it as an attack on you.  It's not.  I'm asking for you to tell me how I was wrong yesterday.  I know you seemingly like to over rely on conclusions and outcomes, but I would like you to tell me why.

I have interactions with squire.  I have secondary interactions with squire.  I never attempted to hide the interactions.   In fact, I've emphasized one of those interactions immensely, which is the secondary interaction you're intent on minimizing and claiming had no effect, and is actually evidence to the contrary.  They were unrelated to what I was explaining in relation to Pickle earlier.  

No, rack, you do not get to disagree on cherry picking.  What you're doing is the literal definition of cherry picking.  If you don't believe me, look it up.  You're omitting context and countervailing evidence, and seemingly acknowledge that while maintaining it's not true.

I am not using only the effects of your actions to infer your intents, I'm using the actions themselves. I didn't just talk about the end results of your actions, I included posts from during the events in question as well. Now you're the one ignoring things to fit your preconceived ideas. You're making up the fact that I'm only talking about the end results of your actions when you know that's not the case.

I also didn't say you were wrong about anything yesterday. That's the best way to be scum, to be right about everything except for calling out other scum. You knew he would likely come up town and that's why you were pushing him without voting. So that way when he came up town you could avoid being what to take any heat if any came up.

You had interactions with squire that were inherently scummy but you wanted to call out others for their interactions with squire. Don't call me a hypocrite when you know you look just as bad.

I'm going to stop talking about the cherry picking thing because you're being intentionally oblivious. I'm not ignoring context, I provided the necessary context. The things I've brought up show clearly that you've behaved scummily. I know you're a lawyer and you like to twist people's words and stuff around but I know I've caught you. You honestly had me thinking you were town through most of the game but when you reread everything that's happened to this point it's clear that you're scum.

[rackcs]

We only have a little over an hour left in this day phase guys. Dingo, Counselor, you really need to weigh in here. One way or another this decision is critical. Pickle is almost certainly the jester and so hes not going to bother chiming in here. If it's not lynching him he doesn't care. If we don't lynch swag here, towns numbers don't add up and swag will win.

[Scoundrel]

@SwAg you keeping your vote on rack?

[SwAg]

You can't seriously be this dumb.

8 minutes ago, rackcs said:

I am not using only the effects of your actions to infer your intents, I'm using the actions themselves. I didn't just talk about the end results of your actions, I included posts from during the events in question as well. Now you're the one ignoring things to fit your preconceived ideas. You're making up the fact that I'm only talking about the end results of your actions when you know that's not the case.

I also didn't say you were wrong about anything yesterday. That's the best way to be scum, to be right about everything except for calling out other scum. You knew he would likely come up town and that's why you were pushing him without voting. So that way when he came up town you could avoid being what to take any heat if any came up.

You had interactions with squire that were inherently scummy but you wanted to call out others for their interactions with squire. Don't call me a hypocrite when you know you look just as bad.

I'm going to stop talking about the cherry picking thing because you're being intentionally oblivious. I'm not ignoring context, I provided the necessary context. The things I've brought up show clearly that you've behaved scummily. I know you're a lawyer and you like to twist people's words and stuff around but I know I've caught you. You honestly had me thinking you were town through most of the game but when you reread everything that's happened to this point it's clear that you're scum.

Are you serious?

[rackcs]

1 minute ago, SwAg said:

You can't seriously be this dumb.

Are you serious?

As a heart attack. Attack me all you want but you're not fooling me.