#1 Golden St Warriors vs #4 Houston Rockets | 2019 West Semifinals

[showtime]

Think about this.  Kevin Durant is the most flawless offensive player ever.  He has zero weaknesses in his game.  He's going to go down as a top 10 player ever EASILY.

[seminoles1]

4 minutes ago, showtime said:

I get what you're saying, but to me Kevin Durant is hands down the best player in the world right now.  This is the first year I would say that, though.  He's better than LeBron, Giannis, Kawhi, Harden, etc.

You make a lot of good points, but there's no question Durant is going to finish as a top 5 perimeter player ever.  It won't even be close.  The only two guys who will go down as better than Durant is Jordan and LeBron.

A lot of people would agree with you as well, but a lot of people would pick Curry and Giannis as well.  Some people would still pick LeBron.

If he stays on Golden State then I think there is a question.

[J-ALL-DAY]

4 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

What's been Durant's theme since he was drafted?  He hates being 2nd.  Can't stand it.  I'm not talking about being considered the consensus best player of his generation; I'm talking about for a single season.  There hasn't been a single season in his entire career where if you polled NBA media, fans, players, whoever and more than 50% would answer Durant.  I'm not sure he'd ever even end up 1st overall.  He hates that, and he's said than in not so many words.  These next 2-3 years are his last chance to truly put his mark on the NBA and increase his viability of being a true top 5 perimeter player ever.

Not for me.  He'd be in the Dr. J, Jerry, David Robinson group, which is exactly where he is now.

You're underestimating the power of the internet age.  This isn't like players from the 60s and 70s (hell, through the mid-90s) where old stories and context is lost and forgotten.  The NBA is completely global 24/7.  What's been written and how the last 3 years have played out is not going to fade like things used to.

If that's all Durant wants then fine, but staying with Golden State caps his ceiling, which has been my point the entire time since responding to Pastor's statement.  Sure, he risks leaving and never winning again, but he open up so many more opportunities and potential to actually approach the GOAT conversation.  We know he hates being a secondary story when it comes to talking about the best players, and him staying would go against what's driven him and what we know eats at him every year.

Again, his prime went against LeBron's prime, so when was he going to be considered the best? If he ends this playoff run with dominant performances and another finals MVP? Then yes, he will be consensus best player in the world. 

Cool, but a resume' of five rings and four finals MVPs with a regular season MVP and his career stats will trump West/Dr. J/Robinson. He will even as I stated in my other post surpass guys like Big O and Hakeem, let along Robinson and West.

And what exactly is there going to be ashamed of his run....If in this hypothetical that he runs off five rings? There is nothing that will be bad about it. The internet will also help put highlights of him hitting series DAGGERS on LeBron and out playing him. When LeBron finishes as the 2nd best player of the game, there will be a bunch of highlight clips of Durant owning him and being his equal in those finals match ups. 

So when you say cap, what are we talking about? I agree he's not hitting top 2, but top 10? He's absolutely hitting that with the kind of resume' we are talking about. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

6 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

Never once did I state or imply or make a point about Havlicek being higher ranked on all-time lists than Durant.  Durant is already ahead of Havlicek for pretty much everyone anyways.

Durant doesn't want to fall short of LeBron.  He's been chasing LeBron his entire career.  Even when he's (read: the Warriors) beaten LeBron (read: the Cavs) head-to-head people still left him behind LeBron going into this season.  Now Giannis is staking his claim.  Staying in Golden State seals his fate of staying behind LeBron, and yet again, that has been my point ever since Pastor said he doesn't see any reason why Durant would/should leave.  I brought up Havlicek because relying on team accomplishments as your trump card caps where people rank you.

Why will he finish higher than Hakeem?

Why is Kobe finishing ahead of Hakeem on damn near every list? Why do you think Durant won't finish higher than Hakeem with five rings and four finals MVPs? Heck, even if it is only four rings and three finals MVPs with his accumulated stats and all around resume' he will be seen as the better player. Just because he will finish behind LBJ and he hates to be second doesn't mean he can't finish ahead of the likes of Hakeem/Big O and on the level of Kobe/Bird. 

[showtime]

1 minute ago, seminoles1 said:

A lot of people would agree with you as well, but a lot of people would pick Curry and Giannis as well.  Some people would still pick LeBron.

If he stays on Golden State then I think there is a question.

I think LeBron is his main competition in terms of best player in the world.  If anyone says Curry is the best player, they must be high on dope.  He's not even in the conversation.  Giannis just had an amazing season, but the thing that's going to hold him back in this conversation is he doesn't have a championship.

LeBron still has an argument, although it looks especially bad this year since his team didn't even make it to the playoffs.

[J-ALL-DAY]

4 minutes ago, showtime said:

Think about this.  Kevin Durant is the most flawless offensive player ever.  He has zero weaknesses in his game.  He's going to go down as a top 10 player ever EASILY.

He has work to do before he goes down as a top 10 player ever EASILY, but he's on that path for sure.

[showtime]

Just now, J-ALL-DAY said:

He has work to do before he goes down as a top 10 player ever EASILY, but he's on that path for sure.

Well, yea.  But I'm assuming he's going to continue to be his usual elite self.  If he does that, it's not even a question.  He's 100% going to go down as better than guys like Bird and Kobe.

[seminoles1]

12 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Again, his prime went against LeBron's prime, so when was he going to be considered the best? If he ends this playoff run with dominant performances and another finals MVP? Then yes, he will be consensus best player in the world. 

Cool, but a resume' of five rings and four finals MVPs with a regular season MVP and his career stats will trump West/Dr. J/Robinson. He will even as I stated in my other post surpass guys like Big O and Hakeem, let along Robinson and West.

And what exactly is there going to be ashamed of his run....If in this hypothetical that he runs off five rings? There is nothing that will be bad about it. The internet will also help put highlights of him hitting series DAGGERS on LeBron and out playing him. When LeBron finishes as the 2nd best player of the game, there will be a bunch of highlight clips of Durant owning him and being his equal in those finals match ups. 

So when you say cap, what are we talking about? I agree he's not hitting top 2, but top 10? He's absolutely hitting that with the kind of resume' we are talking about. 

Most people don't even consider him the most valuable player on his own team.  He can annihilate everything in his path, and he still doesn't even get top billing from is own fan base.  And this isn't like LeBron and Wade; Wade was washed by year 2 and there was no argument.  Curry is still the elite guard in the NBA and running off 1st Team All-NBA selections.  

On paper that looks great, but people still hold those against him.  My point is that those things won't be forgotten like you seem to think.  Staying on and "riding the coattails" like his own teammates even call him out for cap his potential.  And yes, when I say cap, I mean he can't touch MJ or LeBron...and he wants to be able to do that (from everything we know about him at least.  Maybe he has changed his mind about that).  If he leaves for the Clippers or Knicks, wins another MVP or 2, and leads them to a title, that does exponentially more for his all-time ranking than staying in Golden State.

[seminoles1]

6 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Why is Kobe finishing ahead of Hakeem on damn near every list? Why do you think Durant won't finish higher than Hakeem with five rings and four finals MVPs? Heck, even if it is only four rings and three finals MVPs with his accumulated stats and all around resume' he will be seen as the better player. Just because he will finish behind LBJ and he hates to be second doesn't mean he can't finish ahead of the likes of Hakeem/Big O and on the level of Kobe/Bird. 

I don't know why because he shouldn't.

I think he would if that's how it plays out.  I'm not saying he wouldn't end up in the top 10 if he stays in GS, but I'm saying he loses his chance to challenge LeBron and make a real run at the top 2-5 if he does.  He loses his chance to be the main storyline in the NBA.  He loses his chance at more MVPs.  He loses his chance at being the hero.  And so on and so forth and yada yada.

[J-ALL-DAY]

3 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

Most people don't even consider him the most valuable player on his own team.  He can annihilate everything in his path, and he still doesn't even get top billing from is own fan base.  And this isn't like LeBron and Wade; Wade was washed by year 2 and there was no argument.  Curry is still the elite guard in the NBA and running off 1st Team All-NBA selections.  

On paper that looks great, but people still hold those against him.  My point is that those things won't be forgotten like you seem to think.  Staying on and "riding the coattails" like his own teammates even call him out for cap his potential.  And yes, when I say cap, I mean he can't touch MJ or LeBron...and he wants to be able to do that.  If he leaves for the Clippers or Knicks, wins another MVP or 2, and leads them to a title, that does exponentially more for his all-time ranking than staying in Golden State.

If Durant wins another finals MVP and continues this great postseason run, he will be seen as better than Curry period. Sure it is closer than LeBron and Wade, but hard to argue who was better when you win all three finals MVPs. One of the biggest reasons that Shaq was seen as the man over Kobe during those runs even though against other elite Western Conference teams, it was Kobe who was the superior player. 

Well, touching LeBron and MJ is not likely to happen, especially the latter. So if Durant wins a ring this year and then goes on to win a ring with say NY, then you will say he's better than LeBron? 

You aren't riding coattails when you're averaging damn near 35 PPG in the finals and 30 PPG in the playoffs. Again, your also underestimating what it means to play LeBron even or just flat out play better than him heads up for two consecutive years. Those daggers he hit will be played for years to come. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

2 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

I don't know why because he shouldn't.

I think he would if that's how it plays out.  I'm not saying he wouldn't end up in the top 10 if he stays in GS, but I'm saying he loses his chance to challenge LeBron and make a real run at the top 2-5 if he does.  He loses his chance to be the main storyline in the NBA.  He loses his chance at more MVPs.  He loses his chance at being the hero.  And so on and so forth and yada yada.

Well yeah, but I'm not convinced even winning a ring in NY puts him above LeBron. So when you say cap, just seems like we are talking about different things. I never said he will be seen as better than LeBron, just that he will be right up with anyone below the top two. 

But I mean sure, a ring with NY or even multiple rings there will make him be seen in a better light. 

[Texansfan713]

11 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

I don't know why you would say that. The team has been competing hard and have been competitive. Let's see what happens in Houston. 

because last year's team was easily better than this year's.  not many times a team will have homecourt vs the warriors.  you have to take advantage of that and we didnt.

[RandyMossIsBoss]

1 hour ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

We shall see. I don't think so but I can be wrong....In fact, he will be more respected 15-20 years from now. Social media or not, as time goes by, people mainly look at the stats and the resume' of the player. A man who in this hypothetical would have 5 titles, 4 finals MVPs, league MVP, 4 scoring titles and insane overall numbers? That's not a guy who will be looked down upon. And if they do win five straight, the Warriors will be damn near the consensus greatest team of all time. Oh yeah, as I mentioned in my prior post, his final stats are next level GREATNESS status. That's a bonafide top 10 player of all time right there if he does that.

Don't get me wrong, HE won't get looked down upon, his talent was, is, and will be, undeniable and considered near GOAT-esque... HOWEVAH, I think people will always look at his titles with the negative context the public currently connects to them. Of course if he amasses 5... and in a row? Yeah, he'll absolutely belong in all timer discussion and be top 10, but what I'm saying is basically,  I don't think people will ever view his rings through the same prism they view MJ's, Kobe's, Duncan's. Which as far as I can tell, the public for the most part pretty much consider fairly standard (they had the amount of help you'd expect, now at the time Kobe got knocked hard for the Shaq titles but with time I think that faded. Due to our era and how plugged in we all are, I don't think this fades with KD). I don't think Lebron will ever escape "The Decision" either, but as we've seen, you don't necessarily have to get rid of that perception to enter GOAT territory. Even the biggest Lebron haters recognize him as at least top 10 ever, many even #2.

[RandyMossIsBoss]

Why has Faried been kicked out of the rotation in the postseason? I thought he showed enough in the season to warrant stealing some minutes from Capela, but I guess not. He is better suited for this matchup I think, but at the very least should see ~12 minutes. 20+ PER in the regular season, integral role in Rocket's being the best team post-AS, Rockets were +7 per 100 possessions with him on the court overall, and they were +2 better with him on court than off.

[showtime]