Rd 6 Pick 205 - CB Duke Shelley, KSU

[dll2000]

Can't find a lot on Callahan in college, but what I have seen this kid looks better in coverage at that level. 

Promising.  I will say Callahan was a good blitzer even then.  

 

[soulman]

In his post draft presser Pace claims he and his scouting staff have been high on Shelley for quite awhile and I can see why.  He's tenacious little dude.

[dll2000]

I'm telling you this dude is a fighter.  

He will be one of most talked about people in camp if he can stay healthy.  Mark it down.  

 

 

[HuskieBear]

Any thought to this point - 

if shelley shows up enough as a slot/ST guy, do they move on from SM27? Skrine isn't getting cut, and 3 slot guys is probably excessive

[Sugashane]

7 minutes ago, HuskieBear said:

Any thought to this point - 

if shelley shows up enough as a slot/ST guy, do they move on from SM27? Skrine isn't getting cut, and 3 slot guys is probably excessive

To me you never keep an older guy who is JAG over a younger, cheaper alternative who is just as good.

 

That being said McManis was pretty good last year, outside of his last play vs PHI when he did have major breakdowns in coverage or anything the opposing offense rarely capitalized. That was with him having a few years under Fangio's scheme too though. Still, McManis will have to get clearly beat out to lose his spot this year IMO. This year is about challenging for a Super Bowl, so whoever is the best help THIS year is the one getting the reps. If Pagano/Pace feel Shelley is the future at NB but not for this year they aren't going to lose him, they'd put him as a gameday inactive first IMO.

[soulman]

3 hours ago, HuskieBear said:

Any thought to this point - 

if shelley shows up enough as a slot/ST guy, do they move on from SM27? Skrine isn't getting cut, and 3 slot guys is probably excessive

I'd say it depends on two things;

1) How quickly Shelley can learn to play in the slot.  He was an outside cover corner in college and slot has a different set of requirements.

2) Do we have someone who can replace McManis on STeams?

Like Bellamy I think McManis is a savvy vet who can help in several ways and is worth what he's paid.  He's one of the best ST coverage guys in the NFL and when he was needed at Slot CB he played surprisingly well and made some big plays. I'm gonna say I believe he'll still be around in 2019.

[HuskieBear]

51 minutes ago, soulman said:

I'd say it depends on two things;

1) How quickly Shelley can learn to play in the slot.  He was an outside cover corner in college and slot has a different set of requirements.

2) Do we have someone who can replace McManis on STeams?

Like Bellamy I think McManis is a savvy vet who can help in several ways and is worth what he's paid.  He's one of the best ST coverage guys in the NFL and when he was needed at Slot CB he played surprisingly well and made some big plays. I'm gonna say I believe he'll still be around in 2019.

i answered your two questions in my prompt, "if he shows up enough in slot/ST." This scenario is Shelley is able to show he can play slot and cover ST adequately.

Do you move on from the 32 year vet with a larger salary that is the longest tenured Bear has been on the team since '12 and has a 1.9 million cap and 300k cap hit or do you cut your 6th rounder who is on a 4 year deal for ~2.6M total and risk that he doesn't make it to your PS?

[soulman]

5 hours ago, HuskieBear said:

i answered your two questions in my prompt, "if he shows up enough in slot/ST." This scenario is Shelley is able to show he can play slot and cover ST adequately.

Do you move on from the 32 year vet with a larger salary that is the longest tenured Bear has been on the team since '12 and has a 1.9 million cap and 300k cap hit or do you cut your 6th rounder who is on a 4 year deal for ~2.6M total and risk that he doesn't make it to your PS?

They key word of course is "IF" and IMHO there's a good chance a rookie with no college experience as an NFL type Slot CB will require more than just one training camp and preseason to master it.  The challenges of that position have been mentioned by the Bears coaches several times before as an indication of why we signed a vet like Skrine to begin with.  Bryce Callahan only appeared in 9 games as a rookie and only started 3 after Tracy Porter was injured.

So.....although I could be wrong I'm going with the thought Shelley will not be ready to play there in Sept.  It's very early to even ask the question to begin with since we haven't even had Rookie Camp or non-contact OTAs yet.  Magic 8 Ball says ask again later.

Sherrick McManis is 31.  He won't be 32 'til next December so he says stop trying to age him even faster than nature already is.

I think I answered your question.  Based on all that I know and understand today I believe McManis will make the final roster.  For a team in a championship hunt with roughly $16 mil in current cap space I believe he's worth more for his experience and his versatility than the $1.6 mil we'd save by releasing him.  IMHO there are levels at which you can trust McManis where you may not be able to trust an inexperienced rookie.  Any rookie, not just Shelley.

[dll2000]

I would say with Skrine and McManis ahead of him he is a long shot for playing time and may not even make 53.

All I am saying is this dude is going to make some noise and be noticed.

[abstract_thought]

I'm thinking McManis gets cut. The Bears can save about 1.7M and have plenty of bodies for the 4th CB/ST spot.

[HuskieBear]

5 hours ago, soulman said:

They key word of course is "IF" and IMHO there's a good chance a rookie with no college experience as an NFL type Slot CB will require more than just one training camp and preseason to master it.  The challenges of that position have been mentioned by the Bears coaches several times before as an indication of why we signed a vet like Skrine to begin with.  Bryce Callahan only appeared in 9 games as a rookie and only started 3 after Tracy Porter was injured.

So.....although I could be wrong I'm going with the thought Shelley will not be ready to play there in Sept.  It's very early to even ask the question to begin with since we haven't even had Rookie Camp or non-contact OTAs yet.  Magic 8 Ball says ask again later.

Sherrick McManis is 31.  He won't be 32 'til next December so he says stop trying to age him even faster than nature already is.

I think I answered your question.  Based on all that I know and understand today I believe McManis will make the final roster.  For a team in a championship hunt with roughly $16 mil in current cap space I believe he's worth more for his experience and his versatility than the $1.6 mil we'd save by releasing him.  IMHO there are levels at which you can trust McManis where you may not be able to trust an inexperienced rookie.  Any rookie, not just Shelley.

It's a WHAT IF scenario, of course i realize that its a big IF and that its likely a small percentage of actually happening, and that it might require more than one training camp, that's not my point. My point is that IF the 22-year old draft pick that we have under contract for 4/2.6 shows enough to not be a substantial drop off from our 31/32 year old, 4th-5th best corner/backup slot corner/probably best ST player on our roster, does anyone think that we could see the move happening?

30 minutes ago, abstract_thought said:

I'm thinking McManis gets cut. The Bears can save about 1.7M and have plenty of bodies for the 4th CB/ST spot.

This is the second point of my point. SM27 is making 1.9M this season and cutting him save us 1.6 moving forward. All offseason Pace has been making smaller moves that would save us a 1-3 million against the cap (goldman/long restructures for instance), but that money has not been put to use, YET. We all thought maybe pace was doing this to be able to sign another FA, but it will likely be used for extensions (hello cody whitehair). There is a CHANCE that Pace sees SM27 as another area that he can save some $$$, but did want to cut him without having an adequate replacement on the roster. Now with Shelley, if he shows in minicamp and OTAs that he is someone that the team can trust, cutting SM27 now makes much more sense.

I'm not saying we should cut SM27, and it's VERY common that 5th-7th rounders don't make the roster during their draft year, especially for teams that are typically good. If pace thinks that SM27 gives us a substantially better chance at winning the SB with him than with Shelley, yeah, that choice is easy. But if the difference is more minuscule, even if it is in favor of mcmannis > shelley, but the savings allow us to extend on of our own draft picks, then i think pace needs to think about the future and sign a guy that is going to be here more than one more year (whitehair) while also developing a guy that is signed for the next 4 (shelley). If whitehair reaches the open market, he's going to cost AT LEAST $11M (what mitch morse, arguably a worse C, got from BUF). If Pace thinks he can't afford CW65 and is going to let JD68 move over to C this year then let CW65 walk regardless, then the cap savings argument might be a moot point regardless.

[abstract_thought]

13 minutes ago, HuskieBear said:

This is the second point of my point. SM27 is making 1.9M this season and cutting him save us 1.6 moving forward. All offseason Pace has been making smaller moves that would save us a 1-3 million against the cap (goldman/long restructures for instance), but that money has not been put to use, YET. We all thought maybe pace was doing this to be able to sign another FA, but it will likely be used for extensions (hello cody whitehair). There is a CHANCE that Pace sees SM27 as another area that he can save some $$$, but did want to cut him without having an adequate replacement on the roster. Now with Shelley, if he shows in minicamp and OTAs that he is someone that the team can trust, cutting SM27 now makes much more sense.

I'm not saying we should cut SM27, and it's VERY common that 5th-7th rounders don't make the roster during their draft year, especially for teams that are typically good. If pace thinks that SM27 gives us a substantially better chance at winning the SB with him than with Shelley, yeah, that choice is easy. But if the difference is more minuscule, even if it is in favor of mcmannis > shelley, but the savings allow us to extend on of our own draft picks, then i think pace needs to think about the future and sign a guy that is going to be here more than one more year (whitehair) while also developing a guy that is signed for the next 4 (shelley). If whitehair reaches the open market, he's going to cost AT LEAST $11M (what mitch morse, arguably a worse C, got from BUF). If Pace thinks he can't afford CW65 and is going to let JD68 move over to C this year then let CW65 walk regardless, then the cap savings argument might be a moot point regardless.

I don't think this depends solely on Shelley's performance. The Bears invested in Michael Joseph last year. He has the athletic traits to offer long-term potential and immediate special teams impact. Tolliver is another guy who can step into the 3rd/4th DB role with a strong camp. There are several options already on the roster.

But I'm in agreement that saving money seems prudent. That money could be earmarked for extensions or could be used to sign veteran depth at another position. Good veteran players will be cut in the next few months.

[HuskieBear]

3 minutes ago, abstract_thought said:

I don't think this depends solely on Shelley's performance. The Bears invested in Michael Joseph last year. He has the athletic traits to offer long-term potential and immediate special teams impact. Tolliver is another guy who can step into the 3rd/4th DB role with a strong camp. There are several options already on the roster.

But I'm in agreement that saving money seems prudent. That money could be earmarked for extensions or could be used to sign veteran depth at another position. Good veteran players will be cut in the next few months.

Yes, we "invested" in Joseph, but was on the PS all season last year. If another team wanted him, they could have grabbed him, likewise, if Pace liked him so much, they would have promoted him when BC37 went out. Also, Joseph and Toliver are much more of a boundary corners than McMannis, which is why I didn't mention them. I wrote that McMannis is the 4-5th best CB on the roster with the assumption that KF23, PA20, BS24 are ahead of him, and he is close to KT22. We have to remember, prior to last year, SM27 was not a very good corner and we were all worried when he was in the game. Let's see if last year was a fluke or if he really turned a corner

[soulman]

37 minutes ago, HuskieBear said:

It's a WHAT IF scenario, of course i realize that its a big IF and that its likely a small percentage of actually happening, and that it might require more than one training camp, that's not my point. My point is that IF the 22-year old draft pick that we have under contract for 4/2.6 shows enough to not be a substantial drop off from our 31/32 year old, 4th-5th best corner/backup slot corner/probably best ST player on our roster, does anyone think that we could see the move happening?

So what is it you'd like me to say?   I gave you an answer to your question.  I believe McManis makes the cut regardless.  JMHO and if in Aug. or Sept. I'm wrong then I'm wrong but as of 4/30/2019 that is my answer. 

6 hours ago, soulman said:

Based on all that I know and understand today I believe McManis will make the final roster.  For a team in a championship hunt with roughly $16 mil in current cap space I believe he's worth more for his experience and his versatility than the $1.6 mil we'd save by releasing him.  IMHO there are levels at which you can trust McManis where you may not be able to trust an inexperienced rookie.  Any rookie, not just Shelley.

 

 

[soulman]

5 hours ago, dll2000 said:

I would say with Skrine and McManis ahead of him he is a long shot for playing time and may not even make 53.

All I am saying is this dude is going to make some noise and be noticed.

FWIW currently Shelley is third on the depth chart at Slot CB behind Skrine and McManis and second on the depth chart at RCB behind Amukamara.

I'm sure they'll have him working at both spots in camp and preseason just for experience even though Slot CB will be his eventual spot and FWIW Tim Jennings and Shelley are about the same size so it wouldn't be impossible for Shelley to backup at CB while waiting for his time to come at NB.