2019 CFB/2020 Draft Prospects

[diamondbull424]

Also watched Malik Harrison and Akeem Davis-Gaither. Both I felt to be very adequate options. Malik having solid speed and great pop on contact. ADG had seemed to have some positional flexibility, they used him to rush the passer a bit. Would probably rate both options as a 6 or 7/10 come draft. 

Edited March 18, 2020 by diamondbull424
Clarification

[DreamKid]

19 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

That and I think he’s probably a little better in coverage over Murray, but I see similar players. Neither would be my favorite player. With Gay I see a lot of Peanut in his game, I don’t think he’s ever going to be the guy you want playing all three downs and wearing the green dot.

Coverage is Gay's calling card, he's elite, and it's why he'd have value to us right away. If a LB can't cover, you essentially have no business using an early round pick on them. Murray's coverage production and efficiency is atrocious. 

I don't see the Peanut comp, just because his specific issues are where Willie thrives. Going backwards, feel for Zone, etc. 

That said I do agree that Gay has his issues. He can't diagnose like Queen and his trigger is inconsistent. We don't need or want a LB to wear the green dot anymore though, so I'm more looking for high end role players. Which I think Gay can be out of the gate. Right away we can feel comfortable with him in sub packages, and his limited experience + athletic upside give me hope he can start to develop beyond that- as he's just scratching the surface of his game. 

Murray is a multi year starter, who by all accounts is a great kid with a monster work ethic. Yet he still has some of the most head scratching plays out of the entire LB class. I just don't know what he's seeing some times. He's a liability against both the pass and run, still, despite being an incredible athlete himself with no work ethic issues. Now bumping up to the pros, I see all of his issues being exaggerated and him once again being unable to adapt.

Here's PFF's take on both of them in coverage-

Murray-

With all the athleticism in the world, it’s a wonder why he hasn’t been more of a playmaker in coverage over the course of his career. He allowed 82.4% of his targets to be completed in his time at Oklahoma and broke up only 4 of 102 targets with no picks.

WGJ-

His movement skills are top-notch for the position. He’ll likely run in at least the 4.5s — if not faster — and gains depth with ease in coverage. In his three seasons at Mississippi State, Gay earned coverage grades of 87.1 (2017), 90.6 (2018), and 90.0 (2019). 

[diamondbull424]

24 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Also watched Malik Harrison and Akeem Davis-Gaither. Both I felt to be very adequate options. Malik having solid speed and great pop on contact. ADG had seemed to have some positional flexibility, they used him to rush the passer a bit. Would probably rate both options as a 6-7 come draft. 

Probably should specify, Harrison is definitely a very nice thumper option. He’s definitely not a bad player. I like him more than ADG, he hits with force and has the intimidator factor. He’s not the new age LB that you look for though, he would be a really good two series player against the run. He’s going to play his gap responsibility well, he takes really good angles to the ball carrier, there’s very little wasted movement with him. He shows that he can attack the LOS as well. Would have him as a third round pick. He’s going to be a very good option in playing his role. Harrison kind of reminds me of Bart Scott, could go to a team needing defensive leaders and he could potentially put together a PB season or two, but he’s not at the athletic level to be the full 3 down LB in the league.

On another note, I also looked at the tape of Jordan Brooks from Texas Tech, I actually came away VERY impressed with his Baylor tape. As it stands out of the LBs that I’ve watched recently and in the past, he would be the ILB I would target in the second round if we miss out/skip on Patrick Queen in round one. I think Brooks is a legit starter in the league and has the combination between instincts and athleticism to potentially boom as a pro bowl level talent... not saying he will, but he seems to have the best athleticism and instincts combination out of the speedy ILBs not named Queen. What’s more, like Queen, Brooks looked very comfortable in space and in coverage. If he has a weakness its that he can sometimes take a bad angle on his way to the ballcarrier, however that’s few and far between... generally he excels in picking the correct angle and successfully pursuing. In terms of overall rankings of the guys I just watched, I would go:

1. Jordan Brooks- 2nd round

2. Malik Harrison- 3rd round

3. Willie Gay Jr- mid 3rd round

4. Kenneth Murray- mid to late 3rd round

5. Akeem Davis- Gaither- 4th/5th round

Edited March 18, 2020 by diamondbull424
Word choice

[DreamKid]

1 minute ago, diamondbull424 said:

On another note, I also looked at the tape of Jordan Brooks from Texas Tech, I actually came away VERY impressed with his Baylor tape.

^^^^Second time I've seen his name mentioned today. Going to check him out.

 

Dele Harding LB- Illinois is a later round option you might want to watch.

[diamondbull424]

7 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

Coverage is Gay's calling card, he's elite, and it's why he'd have value to us right away. If a LB can't cover, you essentially have no business using an early round pick on them. Murray's coverage production and efficiency is atrocious. 

I don't see the Peanut comp, just because his specific issues are where Willie thrives. Going backwards, feel for Zone, etc. 

That said I do agree that Gay has his issues. He can't diagnose like Queen and his trigger is inconsistent. We don't need or want a LB to wear the green dot anymore though, so I'm more looking for high end role players. Which I think Gay can be out of the gate. Right away we can feel comfortable with him in sub packages, and his limited experience + athletic upside give me hope he can start to develop beyond that- as he's just scratching the surface of his game. 

Murray is a multi year starter, who by all accounts is a great kid with a monster work ethic. Yet he still has some of the most head scratching plays out of the entire LB class. I just don't know what he's seeing some times. He's a liability against both the pass and run, still, despite being an incredible athlete himself with no work ethic issues. Now bumping up to the pros, I see all of his issues being exaggerated and him once again being unable to adapt.

Here's PFF's take on both of them in coverage-

Murray-

With all the athleticism in the world, it’s a wonder why he hasn’t been more of a playmaker in coverage over the course of his career. He allowed 82.4% of his targets to be completed in his time at Oklahoma and broke up only 4 of 102 targets with no picks.

WGJ-

His movement skills are top-notch for the position. He’ll likely run in at least the 4.5s — if not faster — and gains depth with ease in coverage. In his three seasons at Mississippi State, Gay earned coverage grades of 87.1 (2017), 90.6 (2018), and 90.0 (2019). 

Yeah, the Louisville tape I watched I figured wouldn’t be good tape to evaluate him on because that Louisville QB was just putting everyone on skates and the only legit option that could “kind of” spy him was WGJ. I’ll probably rewatch these games in the morning when I’m not so tired. See if under fresh eyes I see things differently. I have before. I’ll also have to try and find better tape where he’s not going up against powerhouse Alabama or a potential phenom QB. Neither games are exactly “fair” to look at. So it’s possible he could be more of a 2nd round guy after finding some superior tape that better allows me to analyze his strengths and flaws.

[Davesta]

49 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Probably should specify, Harrison is definitely a very nice thumper option. He’s definitely not a bad player. I like him more than ADG, he hits with force and has the intimidator factor. He’s not the new age LB that you look for though, he would be a really good two series player against the run. He’s going to play his gap responsibility well, he takes really good angles to the ball carrier, there’s very little wasted movement with him. He shows that he can attack the LOS as well. Would have him as a third round pick. He’s going to be a very good option in playing his role. Harrison kind of reminds me of Bart Scott, could go to a team needing defensive leaders and he could potentially put together a PB season or two, but he’s not at the athletic level to be the full 3 down LB in the league.

On another note, I also looked at the tape of Jordan Brooks from Texas Tech, I actually came away VERY impressed with his Baylor tape. As it stands out of the LBs that I’ve watched recently and in the past, he would be the ILB I would target in the second round if we miss out/skip on Patrick Queen in round one. I think Brooks is a legit starter in the league and has the combination between instincts and athleticism to potentially boom as a pro bowl level talent... not saying he will, but he seems to have the best athleticism and instincts combination out of the speedy ILBs not named Queen. What’s more, like Queen, Brooks looked very comfortable in space and in coverage. If he has a weakness its that he can sometimes take a bad angle on his way to the ballcarrier, however that’s few and far between... generally he excels in picking the correct angle and successfully pursuing. In terms of overall rankings of the guys I just watched, I would go:

1. Jordan Brooks- 2nd round

2. Malik Harrison- 3rd round

3. Willie Gay Jr- mid 3rd round

4. Kenneth Murray- mid to late 3rd round

5. Akeem Davis- Gaither- 4th/5th round

 

Where would you rank Troy dye? 

[diamondbull424]

26 minutes ago, Davesta said:

 

Where would you rank Troy dye? 

I haven’t watched him since very early in the process, so I will probably need to go back and watch him. But from what I remember, I remember thinking he had really nice athleticism, but would sometimes look lazy on film where he didn’t hustle through the play. Also felt he was too finesse and didn’t have a hit stick to him in any capacity. Based off of what I remember and what I’ve seen from these other guys, he’s probably right around ADG. Though I will have to give him another look. What’s more, rating him in that range isn’t to say I didn’t like him, but rather that he had some things he needed to work on. I think a LB worthy of going in rounds 2-4 are generally of potential starting quality either immediately or within a year or so depending on situation.

[Danand]

3 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

So I’m watching WGJr tape and the first tape I selected almost had me do a double take, put on his Louisville film and for a moment on the offensive side of the ball I thought Lamar Jackson was playing... this kid Micale Cunningham, while not as durable as Jackson was in college, seems to have legit 4.3 speed and finished with a passer rating above 190. This guy looks like he’s going to be a legit 2021 Heisman candidate and a legit problem in the league.

HA! I did the exact same thing yesterday. Was about to watch Willie Gay, ended up watching Micale Cunningham. I think almost no matter his deficiencies as a passer next year, coaches will take a chance on his talent now Lamar has shown the way.

With regard to willie Gay, I can't jump on the hype train. Good to great athlete, but I rarely saw him being the first around the ball unless he had a clear lane to the ball carrier or he had easy read to where the play was going.

While Jacoby Phillips tends to read a little too long and isn't the explosive athlete, he comes in early to fill holes when/before they open up. The same is the thing with Marcus Bailey, who seems like a bit faster than Phillips, but obviously has injury concerns. 

I think this years LB crop is better than expected, but none of them are a complete package. The fast athletic linebackers can't read, and the sound technicians who are field generals are slower and stiff and not great in man coverage. Its a pick your poison and with our needs, I prefer we excent Bynes and go with a later round prospect.

Malik Harrison is a hammer, but we want him to attack, not stand around and read the offense

[diamondbull424]

6 minutes ago, Danand said:

HA! I did the exact same thing yesterday. Was about to watch Willie Gay, ended up watching Micale Cunningham. I think almost no matter his deficiencies as a passer next year, coaches will take a chance on his talent now Lamar has shown the way.

With regard to willie Gay, I can't jump on the hype train. Good to great athlete, but I rarely saw him being the first around the ball unless he had a clear lane to the ball carrier or he had easy read to where the play was going.

While Jacoby Phillips tends to read a little too long and isn't the explosive athlete, he comes in early to fill holes when/before they open up. The same is the thing with Marcus Bailey, who seems like a bit faster than Phillips, but obviously has injury concerns. 

I think this years LB crop is better than expected, but none of them are a complete package. The fast athletic linebackers can't read, and the sound technicians who are field generals are slower and stiff and not great in man coverage. Its a pick your poison and with our needs, I prefer we excent Bynes and go with a later round prospect.

Malik Harrison is a hammer, but we want him to attack, not stand around and read the offense

Yeah that guy is going to be a player. I mean, I figured maybe he was just having a good game until I read some additional articles on the year he had as a sophomore. He’s definitely shorter than Lamar though, he’s listed at 6’1” but I’m thinking he’s probably more in the Mike Vick 6’0” type of range... though as a sophomore it’s possible he’ll still grow a little bit more.

Unrelated, but have you watched Jordan Brooks film yet? 

[Danand]

9 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Yeah that guy is going to be a player. I mean, I figured maybe he was just having a good game until I read some additional articles on the year he had as a sophomore. He’s definitely shorter than Lamar though, he’s listed at 6’1” but I’m thinking he’s probably more in the Mike Vick 6’0” type of range... though as a sophomore it’s possible he’ll still grow a little bit more.

Unrelated, but have you watched Jordan Brooks film yet? 

Not enough, watched one game where he looked great at times and at others was completely lost. Might just be experience

[Danand]

While so many can work from home and "hide" that they are not working and looking at draft prospects, I am still at the office, so can't yet dive into the draft as I want to.

I am really torn about our strategy in the draft as I see more and more needs appear. I like having a lot of picks in the first 4 rounds and if we hit on just 4 of them, we can plug those holes with cheaper options. But we have to find a new cornerback as Jimmy Smith most likely is gone with the DB contracts we see these days. Bryce Hall begin to look juicy for us. I wait around for the news we bring in a veteran oline and resign Ward, Bynes and Levine.

That would leave us with needs on oline, 2 at WR, BPA for edge and ILB and a prospect at TE.

In a draft with a lot of value at WR, I like it that go in with a need at the position. It gives us an opportunity to double/tripple dip if the value is there. 

We went from having Roberts, Moore, Hurst as viable options to what we had, to be Boykin, Snead, Brown and Andrews. There are plenty of room for adding 3 pass catchers

[Danand]

So, I have some time as the other guy in my office is at a skype meeting.

Wanted to watch Brooks against a QB that demands him to read and react more, so I went with the Oklahoma Sooners game. Brooks play a lot as a spy on Hurts in this game.

What I like from those 11 minutes of cut ups is how he attacks blocks and both tries to get around them and take then on and then disengage. His success with both techniques are average though, and he makes some wrong decisions, but the understanding of what to do is there. His mistakes are primarily, that he overruns plays/take himself out of the play. In the right scheme with better players around him, this deficiency would be less of an issue.

He is a communicator in the middle and he adjusts his stance and distance depending on what he sees from the offense, so he has an understanding of what will happen.

He is a good gap shooter/penetrator and knows both to take a blocker head on and to use swim and rip/dip moves.

He is not a bad tackler, but he lunges way to much and has a tendency to leave his feet even though there is time and space to break down and stay square to get a better angle to make the tackle.

I can’t say for sure what he is reading, but the play at 9.48 is a play he has to make. Now, Murray for sure doesn’t make that play either as he would still be reading the QB, but unless Brooks job here is being a spy on Hurts until he is sure Hurts doesn’t have the ball, as soon as he see those two hats on the oline moving left, it is his job as an inside linebacker to go plug that hole or take away the blockers legs and disrupt the play.

I don’t know if he is a scheme fit for us, but based on what I felt about Jordyn Brooks and what I saw in that game, I am not interested in spending a 2. Round pick on him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QabOT3sQaq8

[diamondbull424]

12 hours ago, Danand said:

Not enough, watched one game where he looked great at times and at others was completely lost. Might just be experience

Probably the Oklahoma game. Its his worst tape I’ve seen and he still doesn’t look bad... just out of position at times.

[Danand]

5 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Probably the Oklahoma game. Its his worst tape I’ve seen and he still doesn’t look bad... just out of position at times.

Exactly the game I picked. 

[DreamKid]

I think Josh Uche would be a really strong pick at EDGE. High upside with his athleticism, but I see a really safe player too. He has a lot of power to his game for being seen as a 'Speed' rusher. Speed to power game is legit, and he has plus bend to go with his burst. It's really hard for guys like him to outright bust. Then you add in his legitimate coverage ability and off ball versatility. Pretty high floor imo.

He's 21 yo, has 33 5/8" arms, is about 250 lbs. Monster 22.5% pressure rate. Gives off some Ngakoue vibes.

He didn't work out at the combine, and probably won't put out any numbers before the draft- so he seems 2nd Round bound at this point. We had a formal meeting with him at the combine and the Harbaugh connection should help us feel him out even more. He's a great fit for Wink's system and could end up as a high end option at SAM for us.

Right away I see him as a rotational player and taking on a DPR role for long and late downs. Similar to how Jacksonville worked in Yanny, who worked great in tandem with our newest Raven Calais Campbell.

If we don't go EDGE in Round 1, he's probably someone we can feel good about drafting on Day 2. 

Some clips-