Things to look forward to

[Thaiphoon]

On 9/10/2019 at 11:36 PM, Skins212689 said:

Players could've literally gave no effort due to the way the Peterson situation was handled. Look at the numerous players asking out of Miami. Jay being soft has nothing to do with players putting thier bodies on the line to get a Win. You have a coach being a brat and sitting a HOF RB/best RB on the team for a guy who didnt even play a down. That's dumb and shows he doesn't have the best judgement in making sure the team comes out with a WIN.

Wow...so there's so much to respond to that I'm just gonna unpack it one by one.

So let's start out with this:

A) We agree it was a dumb move by Gruden to place him on the inactive list. 

B) I agree that players could have given no effort...but...that's not what happened. As @turtle28 pointed out, they did try.

 

Okay...so now that we agree that Gruden is a moron as a coach and it was a dumb move we go to this gem...

Quote

So let Moses express himself, don't be offened that he felt different than you.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I don't give a rip if he felt differently than me. My point is that it needed to be kept in-house and he not go whining to the media. Especially AFTER a game where he generated more yellow than an artist painting a banana.

Quote

Peterson and Williams not playing has alot to do with why they lost the game.

Hey, we agree again. How about that?

Quote

Also the reasons Peterson and Williams didn't play has alot to do with the dysfunction of this organization.

Yes on Peterson. It was a dumb move by the coach. 

No on Williams. This is a straight up contract move by him. We've been over this before so no need to rehash it (and I won't).

Quote

Players play the game, not their Bosses.

Yes. But coaches also coach the game.

And GMs select the players.

Owners also pay the players.

And now that we have the rollcall for who does what we can continue...so let's...

Quote

So Owners and coaches need to respect that more. 

And players need to respect the boundaries of what they can and cannot do. And what they do and do not have control over.

Quote

None of us are rooting for Jay, Bruce, or Synder.

Wow...again...we agree! We're on a roll, I think...

Quote

Cool Moses didnt have his best game

"Didn't have his best game?" He was penalized more than Happy Gilmore when he played hockey.

Quote

but as usual nethier did the IDIOT coach who couldn't secure a 17 point lead with some of the play calling and his decison to sit Peterson.

Hey...we agree that his playcalling had quite a bit to do with it. 

But earlier, you said this ---> "Players play the game, not their Bosses."

So if you're going to put all the positive on the players, you need to also put all the negative on it too.

Or are you going to admit that it's more than just the players on the field that cause a team to win or lose? Because if you do actually admit that, then we're back into agreement again (YAY!)

Quote

If my memory is correct didn't Peterson score like a 90 yard TD run against Philly last year? That wouldn't have help on Sunday?

Yup. And outside of that long run, he was a very pedestrian 2 yards and a cloud of dust running. 

Don't get me wrong. I wanted Peterson to get the start in Week 1. I wanted Guice to be eased back into things. I fully disagree with Jay making him inactive.

But (outside of him being inactive), starting Guice is a defensible football decision. And coaches make those decisions. Not players. 

Now, assuming AP was active, would I have made the same football decision to start Guice over AP? Nope. 

But again...I'm not the coach. And you're not the coach. And while we can rail against him making those decisions, they are decisions that are still vested in him by the organization.

Know who else isn't the coach?

Morgan Moses.

Quote

To agree with him sitting Peterson is foolish especially knowing Guice injured himself and had not played a meaningful snap for the Skins at all in his career until Sunday.

See above. I'm not agreeing with Peterson being inactive.

But I can understand why a coach might want him backing up Guice so we could get a look at him in Week 1.

Now again...would I have done it? Nope. I would've started AP and then eased Guice into the game.

And I certainly agree with you that I would not have put Smallwood on the active roster over AP. I just wouldn't have. 

 

Quote

As someone mentioned sitting Peterson could've been Jay's way of getting back at Bruce for not cutting Peterson. Meaning he's doing foolish things to get fired. 

Except that's not anything like Antonio Brown. Jay's decision, while we may disagree with it, can be defended as a coach trying to do what he thinks is best for the team. Brown calling his GM a racial slur and generally making a donkey of himself is nowhere near the realm of what Jay did. That's why I said your comment made no sense.

[Thaiphoon]

On 9/11/2019 at 1:39 PM, Skins212689 said:

Here we go again with your reasoning why. When they win another SuperBowl holla at me @turtle28 

Or better yet when most of their own fans aren't calling for the firing of the GM, HC, and Owner holla at @turtle28

Dude, you were the one interjecting yourself and calling him out.

He then laid out his case and asked you to tell him where he was wrong.

And this is what you respond with?

Geez man, I know that @turtle28 has Burgundy and Gold colored glasses on a lot. And I tease him about his positive attitude (whereas I'm usually the most negative in the forum), but at least when I disagree, I pay him the respect to tell him where we disagree. 

I don't just issue bromides about the Pats and when we last won a playoff game and other interesting NFL tidbits of knowledge that have no bearing on the specifics of the Redskins of 2019 that we're talking about here.

 

[Thaiphoon]

13 hours ago, turtle28 said:

 We weren’t even run as well as the current Pats in the 70s, 80s & the 90s before Gibbs left.

Sorry, I disagree. I believe we were run just as well (or at least in the same room of the ballpark) in the 80s and early 90s. I've been watching the Redskins for 45 years and it kills me to see the change from then to now.

[Thaiphoon]

13 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Dude. I agree. I'm done discussing things that aren't going to change. I've been doing that on this forum for a decade and a half or longer since I stumbled across footballs future in the computer lab when I was a senior in college at Towson.

Dan Snyder is only 54 years old and he’s worth $2.6 billion that the government knows about. I'm 40, some of the guys in this forum are around or over 50. He's going to be our owner for most - if not all of our lifetimes - it's not changing. I refuse to act like that is going to change. 

We can't change what we can't change. That's why I mostly focus on the players and hope for the best with their play, that they play well and our young players develop into something good or great. 

See bolded... that's me.

Unless something happens (untimely death or him selling the team), we're screwed.

[Skins212689]

1 hour ago, Thaiphoon said:

Dude, you were the one interjecting yourself and calling him out.

He then laid out his case and asked you to tell him where he was wrong.

And this is what you respond with?

Geez man, I know that @turtle28 has Burgundy and Gold colored glasses on a lot. And I tease him about his positive attitude (whereas I'm usually the most negative in the forum), but at least when I disagree, I pay him the respect to tell him where we disagree. 

I don't just issue bromides about the Pats and when we last won a playoff game and other interesting NFL tidbits of knowledge that have no bearing on the specifics of the Redskins of 2019 that we're talking about here.

 

Comparing this organization to a Winning football organizations isn't talking football how?

He could also agree to disagree with me, but choose not too. I have Agreed to Disagree many times before in certain discussion.

His opinion to certain things comes off as if he has information others don't. My opinion doesn't have to change because others don't agree. Such as my recent comments on Peterson not starting. Writting my opinion on the trend of losing, injuries, and consistent dysfunction under Synder is breaking rules how? 

Telling facts that the Patriots have more SuperBowls than they have Playoff wins under Snyder isn't proven a point how? You can't agrue that. Telling facts Griffin was limping in the Seattle game after taking the hit out of bounds is nothing but honest writting. 

Saying given that Andrews is the doctor who went in the Red Box with Griffin and than allowed Griffin to continue to play is a fact. Followed by my reasoning Guice got a second opinion about his injury. What am I doing wrong? 

Edited September 13, 2019 by Skins212689

[Thaiphoon]

59 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

Comparing this organization to a Winning football organizations isn't talking football how?

You did. True. But that's all you said was the same thing over and over. Yes, the Pats are a winning organization. Yes, we are not currently one. @turtle28 is laying out where they have made good choices and bad in his opinion. All you were doing is avoiding his questions.

Quote

He could also agree to disagree with me, but choose not too. I have Agreed to Disagree many times before in certain discussion.

No. You like to argue with people about your position. And then when they ask you to defend your position, you (many times) retreat to "agree to disagree". You guys can both disagree and still defend your positions. Which is what he was asking you to do. Instead you retreated to shouting "PATS" (essentially) and telling him he has rose colored glasses (he does, but that's not the point)

Quote

His opinion to certain things comes off as if he has information others don't. My opinion doesn't have to change because others don't agree. Such as my recent comments on Peterson not starting. Writting my opinion on the trend of losing, injuries, and consistent dysfunction under Synder is breaking rules how? 

Everyone's opinion comes off as they think they have information that others don't. That's why people have their opinions and state them. If I say that it's stupid for Snyder to hire Jay, that's my opinion. But I'm stating it as a fact. That's what EVERYONE does when they state their opinion. There's no need to put "in my opinion" in front of everything you write. We get it that it's yours.

Quote

Telling facts that the Patriots have more SuperBowls than they have Playoff wins under Snyder isn't proven a point how?

You were asked to point out specifically where he was wrong in his evaluation. You retreated to pointing out that the Pats have more SB wins than we have playoff wins. Great. But that still doesn't answer the question. You avoided his question by giving an answer that had nothing to do with it.

For instance...

My neighbor has 3 cats. There's a fact.

Now...how does that help our team get better?

Does him having 3 cats mean that I get to avoid answering Turtle's question? I mean I can avoid answering it if I want to. But I'm not going to say "hey my neighbor has 3 cats" and think I've somehow "won" the conversation because I spouted a fact.

Quote

You can't agrue that. Telling facts Griffin was limping in the Seattle game after taking the hit out of bounds is nothing but honest writting. 

And yet, you didn't right then. It wasn't until you got called out that you brought that out. And again, that was a long time ago. So how does pointing out that Robert was limping prove anything about signing homegrown talent? Especially since the post of his that got you all bunched up was him asking lavar703 which players we should've re-signed in 2017 and 2018?  You attacked him and accused him of working for the team. He called you out to answer the question. Which you then kinda did by asking about how they did in Week 1 (Crowder and Smith). Turtle then gave you a detailed answer and then asked you to point out where he was wrong. Which you could've just left alone. But then that started the spiraling where you had no counter argument. You just kept repeating the facts not in dispute about the Pats. Which is great. But you literally changed the subject from us re-signing homegrown talent to "let's talk about the difference between their SB wins and our playoff wins." Which is rhetorically pounding the table. Oh and here's a tip, I tend to fall in between your and his original position. I agree with you and think we've let some homegrown guys get away we should've kept. I also agree with him and think there's some guys we let go that people WAY overvalued. 

Quote

Saying given that Andrews is the doctor who went in the Red Box with Griffin and than allowed Griffin to continue to play is a fact.

Griffin was his own worst enemy. He's the one that refused to let anyone look at him after Ngata killed his knee in the Ravens game. Andrews finally got a look at him like 4 plays later and shut him down that game.

The Seattle game he was arguing like a madman with Shanny to go back in. There's still some debate on whether Andrews cleared him or not. But the ultimate choice was Shanny's to let him go back in. And it was clear he shouldn't have.

If I had my way, they would've shut him down after the Ravens game and done surgery on him (*)

Quote

Followed by my reasoning Guice got a second opinion about his injury.

Hooray! I'm glad players are realizing they have access to doctors outside of the team. I'm glad he's getting a 2nd opinion, because you and me both agree that this medical/training staff sucks!!

 

Quote

What am I doing wrong? 

Lots of changing the subject and not answering the actual questions posed to you. Maybe start by staying on topic.

I do like your post though so perhaps let's examine why the Pats have more SB wins than our playoff wins. Would you like to create a new post to facilitate that discussion? Because I think lots of people would love to join in that one. Waddaya say?

 

(*) oh and I agree. We need to part ways with Andrews. I don't trust his surgical skills anymore and the guy is OLD!

[turtle28]

4 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

Sorry, I disagree. I believe we were run just as well (or at least in the same room of the ballpark) in the 80s and early 90s. I've been watching the Redskins for 45 years and it kills me to see the change from then to now.

We weren't run as well as yet Pats of today.  The Pats of today equate to the Steelers of the 70s. Almost all of their players are drafted and developed in house and they do it over and over and over. Today is a much harder era to win in than it used to be bc of the salary cap and the widespread parity in the league. The Redskins used to be able to buy free agents and load up their teams with good free agents and stash some good depth on IR if they had injuries. The Pats are winning more than any other team in history and they aren't able to spend unlimited amounts of money on free agents aren't able to stash good depth on IR and make up injuries for them.

The Redskins of the 70s, 80s and early 90s we're run very very well, one of the best run in the league at the time and in history but nothing compares to today Patriots.

Of course, the Pats of today have Tom Brady who constantly covers up flaws on the team and although they stumbled upon him in the 6th round, Belicheck did develop him and teach him like he does everyone what his standard is.

Tom has followed that and led the team perfectly in Belicheck’s image for nearly 20 years. If Belicheck had never drafted Brady and if Brady hadn't worked as hard and followed Belicheck to a T since 1999 then, the Pats wouldn't be who they've been for nearly 2 decades but, it is what it is now and they've the best run organization in NFL history. The Steelers continue to be arguably the 2nd best run or the Ravens but the Pats have trounced both of those franchises this century.

Edited September 13, 2019 by turtle28

[Skins212689]

10 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

You did. True. But that's all you said was the same thing over and over. Yes, the Pats are a winning organization. Yes, we are not currently one. @turtle28 is laying out where they have made good choices and bad in his opinion. All you were doing is avoiding his questions.

No. You like to argue with people about your position. And then when they ask you to defend your position, you (many times) retreat to "agree to disagree". You guys can both disagree and still defend your positions. Which is what he was asking you to do. Instead you retreated to shouting "PATS" (essentially) and telling him he has rose colored glasses (he does, but that's not the point)

Everyone's opinion comes off as they think they have information that others don't. That's why people have their opinions and state them. If I say that it's stupid for Snyder to hire Jay, that's my opinion. But I'm stating it as a fact. That's what EVERYONE does when they state their opinion. There's no need to put "in my opinion" in front of everything you write. We get it that it's yours.

You were asked to point out specifically where he was wrong in his evaluation. You retreated to pointing out that the Pats have more SB wins than we have playoff wins. Great. But that still doesn't answer the question. You avoided his question by giving an answer that had nothing to do with it.

For instance...

My neighbor has 3 cats. There's a fact.

Now...how does that help our team get better?

Does him having 3 cats mean that I get to avoid answering Turtle's question? I mean I can avoid answering it if I want to. But I'm not going to say "hey my neighbor has 3 cats" and think I've somehow "won" the conversation because I spouted a fact.

And yet, you didn't right then. It wasn't until you got called out that you brought that out. And again, that was a long time ago. So how does pointing out that Robert was limping prove anything about signing homegrown talent? Especially since the post of his that got you all bunched up was him asking lavar703 which players we should've re-signed in 2017 and 2018?  You attacked him and accused him of working for the team. He called you out to answer the question. Which you then kinda did by asking about how they did in Week 1 (Crowder and Smith). Turtle then gave you a detailed answer and then asked you to point out where he was wrong. Which you could've just left alone. But then that started the spiraling where you had no counter argument. You just kept repeating the facts not in dispute about the Pats. Which is great. But you literally changed the subject from us re-signing homegrown talent to "let's talk about the difference between their SB wins and our playoff wins." Which is rhetorically pounding the table. Oh and here's a tip, I tend to fall in between your and his original position. I agree with you and think we've let some homegrown guys get away we should've kept. I also agree with him and think there's some guys we let go that people WAY overvalued. 

Griffin was his own worst enemy. He's the one that refused to let anyone look at him after Ngata killed his knee in the Ravens game. Andrews finally got a look at him like 4 plays later and shut him down that game.

The Seattle game he was arguing like a madman with Shanny to go back in. There's still some debate on whether Andrews cleared him or not. But the ultimate choice was Shanny's to let him go back in. And it was clear he shouldn't have.

If I had my way, they would've shut him down after the Ravens game and done surgery on him (*)

Hooray! I'm glad players are realizing they have access to doctors outside of the team. I'm glad he's getting a 2nd opinion, because you and me both agree that this medical/training staff sucks!!

 

Lots of changing the subject and not answering the actual questions posed to you. Maybe start by staying on topic.

I do like your post though so perhaps let's examine why the Pats have more SB wins than our playoff wins. Would you like to create a new post to facilitate that discussion? Because I think lots of people would love to join in that one. Waddaya say?

 

(*) oh and I agree. We need to part ways with Andrews. I don't trust his surgical skills anymore and the guy is OLD!

I feel no need to answer all his questions when it's a Fact players play the game to win. The Fact that the Patriots have more SuperBowl wins than this organization has Playoff wins under Snyder proves they are doing alot wrong. Facts. I see no need to go into every detail as to why. Witch would be answer all the players they have let go, didn't draft, or pointing out everything wrong move. It's too many! Providing Facts that the Patriots have more SuperBowl wins than they have Playoff wins and saying Kraft or Jerry Jones wouldn't make certain moves unlike Snyder, whats to argue? 

The Patriots got a 2nd round pick for Jimmy G. Fact

The Skins let Cousins go and got nothing in return but a 3rd round compensation pick. Fact

Players/Fans were upset that Peterson was benched for a player who didn't even play a snap. Fact 

Peterson had a 90 yard TD run against Philly last year. Fact

Most here would say Dr. Andrews needs to be replaced. Fact

Griffin was limping and his body language did show he should've been shut down at least after his last TD throw to Reynolds. Facts

Andrews or Shannhahan shouldn't have let Griffin back in the game no matter if he said don't take him out. One of them had the final say so, not Griffin! Facts

I might be wrong and I will take a look at myself but their is a Big difference between a Opinion and a Fact. I tend to like to speak about Factual information rather than opinion because as they say a Opinion is just like a Butt everyone has 1. Alot of times @turtle28 seems to be speaking in those terms tryna defend foolish moves the organization has made. That gets old and annoying quickly. 

Did the OJ glove fit? No/Fact. Why it didn't fit? Now that we don't know and many people have their opinions as to why. 

Onething I didn't address. I use IMO to point out this is "My Opinion" leaving whoever disagress the ability to agree to disagree. I will defend my position on my point though.

Edited September 13, 2019 by Skins212689

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, Skins212689 said:

I feel no need to answer all his questions when it's a Fact players play the game to win. The Fact that the Patriots have more SuperBowl wins than this organization has Playoff wins under Snyder proves they are doing alot wrong. Facts. I see no need to go into every detail as to why. Witch would be answer all the players they have let go, didn't draft, or pointing out everything wrong move. It's too many! Providing Facts that the Patriots have more SuperBowl wins than they have Playoff wins and saying Kraft or Jerry Jones wouldn't make certain moves unlike Snyder, whats to argue? 

The Patriots got a 2nd round pick for Jimmy G. Fact

The Skins let Cousins go and got nothing in return but a 3rd round compensation pick. Fact

Players/Fans were upset that Peterson was benched for a player who didn't even play a snap. Fact 

Peterson had a 90 yard TD run against Philly last year. Fact

Most here would say Dr. Andrews needs to be replaced. Fact

Griffin was limping and his body language did show he should've been shut down at least after his last TD throw to Reynolds. Facts

Andrews or Shannhahan shouldn't have let Griffin back in the game no matter if he said don't take him out. One of them had the final say so, not Griffin! Facts

I might be wrong and I will take a look at myself but their is a Big difference between a Opinion and a Fact. I tend to like to speak about Factual information rather than opinion because as they say a Opinion is just like a Butt everyone has 1. Alot of times @turtle28 seems to be speaking in those terms tryna defend foolish moves the organization has made. That gets old and annoying quickly. 

Did the OJ glove fit? No/Fact. Why it didn't fit? Now that we don't know and many people have their opinions as to why. 

Yet, I didn't dispute anything you just said it wrote... Ever. If you find it let me know.

The fact remains that you went on this tangent after I pointed out the homegrown talent we let leave for the most part, we should have let leave and collected the compensatory picks and how most of them got overpaid to leave we lot the last two offseasons when Lavar wrongly said we don't re-sign our homegrown talent.

If you or @lavar703 who has never replied to my question back to him - which is fine, I don't care bc I don't think there's much of a counter to my reply to his post - that's fine, but a page and a half later you still haven't addressed it, instead you're talking about other things that have nothing to do with my reply post to Lavar on again, the homegrown talent we lost.

Let's be clear:

1. I would have kept Kirk Cousins. I would have given him a contract after the 2015 season which he couldn't turn down. I would have never allowed it to get to the point where we had to franchise him or trade him and eventually lose him for just a 3rd round compensatory pick.

2. We should have re-signed Breeland after his Panthers contract was voided bc he cut his foot but also keep in mind that since we signed Norman in 2016, Breeland had acted like a child bc he felt he should have gotten the contract that Norman got which is way out of the realm of reality.

3. Ryan Grant got paid $5 million to go to Indianapolis, good for him, but he's not worth that much, he's a player who should get the vet minimum or slightly above.

4. Trent Murphy got a 3 year $22.5 contract coming off a year where he was busted for PEDs and had torn his ACL. Are you going to say we should have given him a bigger contract than the Bills to keep him? He was a reserve here also, not a starter. Letting him go was the right move.

5. Spencer Long got paid 4 years, 27.4 million to go to the Jets - and made nearly $7 million last year - he played there one year and then they cut him this offseason bc they realized they overpaid for him.

We also had Roullier in house who we drafted and who looked better than Long as a replacement.

6. Jamison Crowder - too be determined if it was the right move to let him go - but I do like our young WRs we have so I am fine with letting him go.

He got a 4 year, $28.5 million contract and makes nearly $7 million this year. It will be interesting to see what happens, but I feel Quinn will put up similar stats to Crowder.

7. Preston Smith. I liked the guy more than most Redskins fans. He was constantly called mediocre in this forum and on Redskins twitter which I disagreed with and still do. 

That being said, he got a 4 year, $52 million contract to go to the Packers. I like Smith, but I think that was an overpay on their part and we drafted Sweat to replace him. He makes $6 million this year and will make $13.5 million next year. I think that's an overpay.

So I’ll ask again, on just this topic of ”players we let go who we should have kept... ” anyone, you or @lavar703 - who never wanted to keep Kirk until his final season here - where am I wrong?

Edited September 13, 2019 by turtle28

[Skins212689]

20 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Yet, I didn't dispute anything you just said it wrote... Ever. If you find it let me know.

The fact remains that you went on this tangent after I pointed out the homegrown tangent and how most of them got overpaid to leave we lot the last two offseasons when Lavar wrongly said we don't re-sign our homegrown talent.

If you or @lavar703 who has never replied to my question back to him - which is fine, I don't care bc I don't think there's much of a counter to my reply to his post - that's fine, but a page and a half later you still haven't addressed it, instead you're talking about other things that have nothing to do with my reply post to Lavar on again, the homegrown talent we lost.

Let's be clear:

1. I would have kept Kirk Cousins. I would have given him a contract after the 2015 season which he couldn't turn down. I would have never allowed it to get to the point where we had to franchise him or trade him and eventually lose him for just a 3rd round compensatory pick.

2. We should have re-signed Breeland after his Panthers contract was voided bc he cut his foot but also keep in mind that since we signed Norman in 2016, Breeland had acted like a child bc he felt he should have gotten the contract that Norman got which is way out of the realm of reality.

3. Ryan Grant got paid $5 million to go to Indianapolis, good for him, but he's not worth that much, he's a player who should get the vet minimum or slightly above.

3. Trent Murphy got a 3 year $22.5 contract coming off a year where he was busted for PEDs and had torn his ACL. Are you going to say we should have given Jon a bigger contract than that to keep him? He was a reserve here also, not a starter. Letting him go was the right move.

4. Spencer Long got paid 4 years, 27.4 million to go to the Jets - and made nearly $7 million last year - he played there one year and then they cut him this offseason bc they realized they overpaid for him.

We also had Roullier in house who we drafted and who looked better than Long as a replacement.

5. Jamison Crowder - too be determined if it was the right move to let him go, but I do like our young WRs we have so I am fine with letting him go.

He got a 4 year, $28.5 million contract and makes nearly $7 million this year. It will be interesting to see what happens, but I feel Quinn will put up similar stats to Crowder.

6. Preston Smith. I liked the guy more than most Redskins fans. He was constantly called mediocre in this forum and on Redskins twitter which I disagreed with and still so. 

That being said, he got a 4 year, $52 million contract to go to the Packers. I like Smith, but I think that was an overpay in their part and we drafted Sweat to replace him. He makes $6 million this year and $13.5 million next year. I think that's an overpay.

So I’ll ask again, on just this topic of ”players we let go who we should have kept... ” anyone, you or @lavar703 - who never wanted to keep Kirk until his final season here - where am I wrong. 

I answered that by saying that was a question for Lavar not me.

Once again you want to go through ever little detail and try to defend why they didn't resign this or that guy.

Facts say Crowder caught how many balls and Smith had how many sacks in their debut on their new teams? People said Collins was overpaid, but what was his production last week. The production is what I care about. 

Our Production as a Team under Snyder sucks!!! Plain and Simple, It's nothing to argue. 

Using the same Doctor now as they did with Griffin isn't me bringing up Griffin it's showing the pattern of this Doctor's history in witch I wouldn't trust. 

[lavar703]

You said I was wrong and then went on to name 6 players we let walk away lol. Not to mention, we’re basically the only team ever to let their franchise QB walk for nothing in his prime. Scherff still doesn’t have a deal, our franchise LT wants out and our GM traded our best young DB. Pretty much the only guy we’ve re-signed is Ioannidis and he would’ve got much more on the open market. 

[turtle28]

15 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

I answered that by saying that was a question for Lavar not me.

Once again you want to go through ever little detail and try to defend why they didn't resign this or that guy.

Facts say Crowder caught how many balls and Smith had how many sacks in their debut on their new teams? People said Collins was overpaid, but what was his production last week. The production is what I care about. 

Our Production as a Team under Snyder sucks!!! Plain and Simple, It's nothing to argue. 

Using the same Doctor now as they did with Griffin isn't me bringing up Griffin it's showing the pattern of this Doctor's history in witch I wouldn't trust. 

You're bringing up things that have nothing to do with my point. You say I’m annoying bc I know what I talk about or whatever your problem is but it's also annoying that you quoted my post to Lavar w/ points that were off-topic and never you answered the question I had.

So why'd you even quote my reply post to Lavar in the first place?

I don't disagree with your opinion of Snyder. He ruined this franchise and took a team he inherited which was a FG away from going to the NFC Championship Game in 99 to running it into the ground and ruining the chemistry of that team w/in one-year bc of all the free agents Snyder and Vinny brought in.

Then, Snyder had an amazing hire in 2001 by getting Marty Schottenheimer but stupidly fired him after one year to stupidly hire Steve Spurrier which was a predictable disaster. 

I know you’re relatively new here and you only know me as the guy trying to find the good in an awful run team with young talent but horrible leadership but, I’m 40, I was 12 when the Redskins last won their Super Bowl vs the Bills and I remember it. I remember how for the most part Casserly & Norv sucked in the 90s building the Redskins until 98 & 99 - and trust me Snyder knew this too - that's why he fired Casserly right away in 99 Norv a year later. We all know that firing Casserly right away was a stupid move but Dan was tired of the losing in the 90s and wanted to build a team through free agency the way the Redskins had mostly done in the 70s and somewhat remained true in the 80s although many of that success was from the draft.

I've railed on Dan Snyder and Vinny for 15 plus years on this forum, I'm so over the topic and we can't change that dan is our owner. He's 54, I'm 40, he's worth $2.6 billion that the government knows about and he’ll probably be the owner my entire lifetime and most of the lifetime of every Redskins fans all over the world except those younger than 30. We have to come to that realization. It sucks, but it is what it is, we can't change it.

That's why I mostly focus on the players and hope for the best out of them, even if my hope doesn't really mean I ”believe” it will happen that they become good or great just bc we'll... REDSKINS! We can't have nice things!

If Dan had kept Marty, we would have been the Chargers of last decade and a Super Bowl contender from 04 on. But, Snyder didn't, it was stupid.

Hiring Zorn was stupid. Gregg Williams should have gotten the job but Dan & Vinny didn't like Gregg so, he wasn't kept. All he did was go to the Saints and help that team get to multiple playoffs games and helped build a defense which led to them winning the super bowl in the 2009-10 season.

I don't like Dan, Bruce or Vinny. I was excited when we hired Shananan but quickly went sour on him and Kyle for the way they treated McNabb in 2010. McNabb was over the hill, but still him getting that roster to 6-10 in 2010 should be commended considering the crap talent we had on offense and our defense was awful. Choosing Grossman & Beck over McNabb to me still remains one of the worst decisions in Redskins history to me. Then, Shanahan staked his reputation on the fact that he said, ”Jon Beck can play!” Right, sure boss! Another dumb comment.

I would have loved to see McNabb with the 2011 team. We had more talent after we traded for Jabar Gaffney, drafted Kerrigan and signed Bowen, Cofield and Wilson on defense. That team probably would've been around or over .500 w/ McNabb vs Beck/Grossman, just my opinion, most think Grossman was better but IMO his turnovers cost us games. I think Grossman had 30 total turnovers in 2011. So, while I too liked the gunslinger mentality of Grossman, I hated to see 30 turnovers knowing that cost us several wins. And of course we won fewer games with a more talented roster in 2011 than what we had in 2010.

After that debacle, Shanahan did great with Griffin in 2012 but also ruined him by not sitting him after he got hurt vs the Ravens in 2012 then, to make matters worse sent Griffin back into the Seattle game to play on an awful best up turf vs on an unstable knee greedy reasons!

Shanahan had been a combined 11-21 his first two years before he, Dan and Allen traded up to draft Griffin #2 overall. Then, Shanahan ran Griffin into the ground when Griffin was a rookie so Shanahan could save his and Kyle’s jobs bc up to that point his tenure in DC had been a hot mess. 

So, I was the leader of the fire Shanahan fan club for years, ever since he benches McNabb for no apparent reason in 2010, I had soured on him after that.

Anyways, just so know a little more about me, I'm not always rose-colored glasses even though it seems that way bc I try to find some good in an awfully run organization.

Edited September 14, 2019 by turtle28

[turtle28]

26 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

You said I was wrong and then went on to name 6 players we let walk away lol. Not to mention, we’re basically the only team ever to let their franchise QB walk for nothing in his prime. Scherff still doesn’t have a deal, our franchise LT wants out and our GM traded our best young DB. Pretty much the only guy we’ve re-signed is Ioannidis and he would’ve got much more on the open market. 

I agreed we shouldn't have let Kirk go, you know this, I wanted him re-signed 2 years before you did. 

And we have re-signed our own, we re-signed Moses, Reed, Dunbar, Chris Thompson, Ryan Kerrigan and Matt Ioannidis.

So, I'm sorry it's just not a factual statement that we haven't re-signed our own guys. If we had given Long, Murphy - who you hated - Crowder and PSmith larger contracts than the teams they went to over the last 2 off-seasons, we’d have NO cap space.

Edited September 13, 2019 by turtle28

[Skins212689]

18 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

You're bringing up things that have nothing to do with my point. You say I’m annoying bc I know what I talk about or whatever your problem is but it's also annoying that you quoted my post to Lavar w/ points that were off-topic and never you answered the question I had.

So why'd you even quote my reply post to Lavar in the first place?

I don't disagree with your opinion of Snyder. He ruined this franchise and took a team he inherited which was a FG away from going to the NFC Championship Game in 99 to running it into the ground and ruining the chemistry of that team w/in one-year bc of all the free agents Snyder and Vinny brought in.

Then, Snyder had an amazing hire in 2001 by getting Marty Schottenheimer but stupidly fired him after one year to stupidly hire Steve Spurrier which was a predictable desire. 

If Dan had kept Marty, we would have been the Chargers of last decade and a Super Bowl contender from 04 on. But, Snyder didn't, it was stupid.

Hiring Zorn was stupid. Gregg Williams should have gotten the job but Dan & Vinny didn't like Gregg so, he wasn't kept. All he did was go to the Saints and help that team get to multiple playoffs games and helped build a defense which led to them winning the super bowl in the 2009-10 season.

Long, Grant, and Breeland, I agree I would've resigned. In saying that I'm also saying this is where they go wrong in not making progresss to building a Playoff Team. Even if not Great those guys are "Good" enough over what have currently have. The Long, Grant, and Breeland that played here are good depth guys on this roster currently. You made up for losing Smith by adding Sweat. Crowder injury history just wasn't good enough for me to resign him. You also had a guy in Trey Quinn who fit like a good replacement. You also add McLaruin in the draft and he definitely has fit the bill plus more. I know it's early but he has been very impressive. 

The Fan in me can see the talent/good things like Haskins, O'connell, Kyle Smith, the defense, but also the Fan in me can see how they consistently screw things like with Williams, Peterson not being active, losing after having a 17-0 lead,ect. I just can't defend that anymore but hope they become better. No Let Snyder, Allen, Jay, this medical staff know they suck. 

As said somethings are just my opinion but it's alot of Facts to what I post as well.

Edited September 13, 2019 by Skins212689

[lavar703]

19 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I agreed we shouldn't have let Kirk go, you know this, I wanted him re-signed 2 years before you did. 

And we have re-signed our own, we re-signed Moses, Reed, Dunbar, Chris Thompson, Ryan Kerrigan and Matt Ioannidis.

So, I'm sorry it's just not a factual statement that we haven't re-signed our own guys. If we had given Long, Murphy - who you hated - Crowder and PSmith larger contracts than the teams they went to over the last 2 off-seasons, we’d have NO cap space.

And why didn’t we have the cap space to re-sign our own guys?