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Is it hard for a QB to have success under a different head coach?


Brit Pack

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Just thinking about Rodgers and LeFleur and I wondered is Rodgers the QB that LeFleur wants? It then made me think do coaches and QBs form a kind of marriage where once you been with one for any given period it is hard to move on to another? That both QB and coach become intertwined and that also as a QB if all you have only known is one system or one coach that the QB becomes like an old man, stuck in his ways and hard to adapt or move on. Are QBs like Penguins where they mate for life with a coach and never move on after?

I compiled a quick list going back 10 years of QBs and coaches who won Super Bowls and yes it is dominated by Brady and Belichick but even then most the other winners share this trait.

Patriots – Brady & Bilecheck – only coach he has known

Eagles – Wentz & Pederson - only coach he has known - both joined the Eagles in 2016

Patriots – Brady & Bilecheck – only coach he has known

Broncos – Manning & Kubiak – not only coach he has known 

Patriots – Brady & Bilecheck – only coach he has known

Seahawks – Wilson & Carrol – only coach he has known

Ravens – Flacco & Harbaugh – only coach he knew at that time - both joined the Ravens in 2008

Giants – Manning & Coughlin  - only coach he has won anything with - both joined the Giants in 2004

Packers – Rodgers & McCarthy – only coach he has won anything with

Saints – Bress & Payton – last 13 years with the same coach - both joined the Saints in 2006


We see that also with other winning QBs and coaches, Dak, Goff, Mahomes. If we look at Favre he had his MVPs and Super Bowl win under Holmgren.

So the point being is it unfair to think that Rodgers and LeFleur will bring about the same level of offensive success that Rodgers had with McCarthy and that will LeFleur only have real success once he gets his own QB to shape and mould and grow with?

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So Brees and Payton won a Super Bowl in their fourth year together, and Payton was not Brees's first head coach. Also, The Eagles' entire playoff run happened with Nick Foles, who was not on his first coach. So the pattern is not as strong as you make it look. And if you go back before 2009, you find numerous examples of QBs who won championships without their first coach. So I don't think there is any significance to this. 

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Two things here:

1. The Patriots are an outlier.
2. 5/10 of those head coaches were in their first five years. 
3. The other 2 (Belichick and Coughlin) won multiple Super Bowls. 

I think there is nothing to see here. 

*Peyton Manning had the best year of his career under a new head coach. 
*Brett Favre had his best year as a Packer since the 90's under McCarthy.
*Brett Favre had his best year as a pro in his first year as a Viking. 

Further,

Manning/Kubiak
Johnson/Gruden
Brady/Belichik
Warner/Vermeil
Hostetler/Parcels
Montana/Seiffert
Williams/Gibbs
Montana/Walsh
Plunket/Flores
Staubach/Landry

All of those quarterback/head coach combos won a Super Bowl IN THEIR FIRST YEAR TOGETHER. 

Then there's Roethlisberger.  Took Roethlisberger two years to win a Super Bowl under Cowher.  Then it took Roethlisberger 2 years to win a Super Bowl under Tomlin. 

Took Rodgers 3 years under McCarthy.
Took Favre 5 years under Holmgren.


There's no pattern here at all.  It's been mentioned, but Foles and Pederson.  Also, Brady wasn't Belichik's QB.  He was his backup.  Belichick/Brady are an outlier due to Brady's soft contract demands.  So there's no correlation here at all. 

 

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4 hours ago, Brit Pack said:

Just thinking about Rodgers and LeFleur and I wondered is Rodgers the QB that LeFleur wants? It then made me think do coaches and QBs form a kind of marriage where once you been with one for any given period it is hard to move on to another? That both QB and coach become intertwined and that also as a QB if all you have only known is one system or one coach that the QB becomes like an old man, stuck in his ways and hard to adapt or move on. Are QBs like Penguins where they mate for life with a coach and never move on after?

I compiled a quick list going back 10 years of QBs and coaches who won Super Bowls and yes it is dominated by Brady and Belichick but even then most the other winners share this trait.

Patriots – Brady & Bilecheck – only coach he has known

Eagles – Wentz & Pederson - only coach he has known - both joined the Eagles in 2016

Patriots – Brady & Bilecheck – only coach he has known

Broncos – Manning & Kubiak – not only coach he has known 

Patriots – Brady & Bilecheck – only coach he has known

Seahawks – Wilson & Carrol – only coach he has known

Ravens – Flacco & Harbaugh – only coach he knew at that time - both joined the Ravens in 2008

Giants – Manning & Coughlin  - only coach he has won anything with - both joined the Giants in 2004

Packers – Rodgers & McCarthy – only coach he has won anything with

Saints – Bress & Payton – last 13 years with the same coach - both joined the Saints in 2006


We see that also with other winning QBs and coaches, Dak, Goff, Mahomes. If we look at Favre he had his MVPs and Super Bowl win under Holmgren.

So the point being is it unfair to think that Rodgers and LeFleur will bring about the same level of offensive success that Rodgers had with McCarthy and that will LeFleur only have real success once he gets his own QB to shape and mould and grow with?

Goldarn it, so there are three Brady's and Belichick's. No wonder they have a bunch of SB in this millenium !

(PS I did work out [eventually]  that the list was year by year SB  winners and not an accidental repetition).

 

On a more sensible note, I don't know if LaFleur is the HC Rodgers wants, but it is who he has, and both of them must adapt to each other. Hopefully, he will be the head coach beyond Rodgers as well. I do think relationships grow stale, as appeared to happen with McCarthy and Rodgers, and probably the McNabb and Andy Reid combo grew stale as well (a 10 year partnership) though it was another three years with Michael Vick before Reid moved on from the Eagles.

I would add that long term relationships, by the very fact that they HAVE lasted a long time, are almost certain to have been successful.

Edited by OneTwoSixFive
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