2019 Offseason (eating crow)

[dll2000]

 

Basically much of what I said in hopeful optimism in offseason turned out false:

* Long after his first surgery free season in many years did not come back better.

* Our very young promising players Miller, Nichols, R. Smith and Daniels did not come back much better, they had a sophomore slump instead.

* MT did not improve.  He has obviously been biggest disappointment.  I posit that it wouldn't have been so bad had the O line not spent off season and beginning of the season playing about as bad as an NFL O Line could possibly play.   I really fault Nagy and O line coach for letting that go unchecked for so long.   Long obviously needed to be benched in August practice and they lacked the guts to do it.   

* Shaheen did not improve like he looked in 2018 off season.

*Burton regressed.

*Whitehair and Leno have been inconsistent.

I was only right on Allen Robinson and HHCD.   I was happily wrong on Buster Skrine who has kept Shelley on the bench.

I can't ever remember being this wrong on so many things.   I think logic was sound, but people are humans and what they do and how they prepare or learn isn't going to be easily predictable.

So what to do going forward?

Well normally now with rookie wage scale  you keep drafting first round QBs until you get one.  But we don't have a first round pick because we went big with Mack.   So now you have to dig threw the trash bins.

You have to go and look for any pre season QBs with potential and smarts and coach them up.  I would do it now.   Identify a prospect someone isn't using and bring him in.   I think I remember being impressed with a NYG QB in pre season.   This season is going nowhere.   Lets be real you aren't firing Nagy or Pace in near future.   If things take time then start them sooner rather than later.   Get a potential future QB learning and taking snaps and ASAP put him in games.   Yeah the veterans will complain, but you have to be real.  This league is about titles and you aren't winning a title with this 2019 team with MT at QB.  He doesn't have it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by dll2000

[dll2000]

*I know Nichols got hurt.

[WindyCity]

This is a complete GMing Disaster

-Your hand picked, traded up for, conviction QB, will be on every biggest draft misses special produced for 20 years.

-Your hand picked coach is melting down.

-Your 2018 rookie class has not taken a step forward.

-Your 2017 boutique TE pick [Shaheen] is a bust.

-Your 8 million/season TE has disappeared into a mysterious groin injury.

-His high priced OL has under performed.

[vegas492]

I feel for yah, @dll2000.  Not enough to let you welch on our bet, but I do feel for you.

Tell yah what, beat the Vikes for me, again, and that bet is off.  That work for yah?

[topwop1]

29 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

This is a complete GMing Disaster

-Your hand picked, traded up for, conviction QB, will be on every biggest draft misses special produced for 20 years.

-Your hand picked coach is melting down.

-Your 2018 rookie class has not taken a step forward.

-Your 2017 boutique TE pick [Shaheen] is a bust.

-Your 8 million/season TE has disappeared into a mysterious groin injury.

-His high priced OL has under performed.

Dude I think you are blowing things out of proportion a bit.

Yes it does not look good right now but just look at a team like the Colts. It could have been a disaster for them too after Luck retired but they didn't panic and are doing just fine now with Brissett.

I believe this team can find their own Birssett. We just need to let it play out and see what the plan is at QB going forward.  I am not ready to write Pace & Nagy off just yet.  We still have a good team overall and I believe this is fixable.  Let Nagy take full charge on finding a QB this off season that is good enough to run the offense and we'll see what happens.  I don't think there are any better options right now.

I don;t believe firing Pace after this season is the answer.  Let he and Nagy try to figure it out for next season and if it doesn't work out then you can at least say they were given a fair shot..  

[dll2000]

29 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I feel for yah, @dll2000.  Not enough to let you welch on our bet, but I do feel for you.

Tell yah what, beat the Vikes for me, again, and that bet is off.  That work for yah?

You already won the bet.  You can collect whenever.   This is why I don't bet. 

But yeah that's fine.  

 

[WindyCity]

4 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

Dude I think you are blowing things out of proportion a bit.

Yes it does not look good right now but just look at a team like the Colts. It could have been a disaster for them too after Luck retired but they didn't panic and are doing just fine now with Brissett.

I believe this team can find their own Birssett. We just need to let it play out and see what the plan is at QB going forward.  I am not ready to write Pace & Nagy off just yet.  We still have a good team overall and I believe this is fixable.  Let Nagy take full charge on finding a QB this off season that is good enough to run the offense and we'll see what happens.  I don't think there are any better options right now.

I don;t believe firing Pace after this season is the answer.  Let he and Nagy try to figure it out for next season and if it doesn't work out then you can at least say they were given a fair shot..  

You have 0 factual reasons to believe that.

The Colts All Pro QB retired and they survived because they have a good GM who had a 2nd good QB on the roster.

The Bears GM has put 0 good QBs on the roster. In fact he made an all in move at QB with conviction, and drafted the 1 guy out of 3 who is not good. That is a spectacular failure at the most important position in football.

 

I think you are not taking how monumental a failure Trubisky is and how big a set back it is for this team seriously enough.

[topwop1]

10 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

You have 0 factual reasons to believe that.

The Colts All Pro QB retired and they survived because they have a good GM who had a 2nd good QB on the roster.

The Bears GM has put 0 good QBs on the roster. In fact he made an all in move at QB with conviction, and drafted the 1 guy out of 3 who is not good. That is a spectacular failure at the most important position in football.

 

I think you are not taking how monumental a failure Trubisky is and how big a set back it is for this team seriously enough.

They only have Brissett because they were forced to make a trade for him when Luck missed all of 2017, before that they had Scott Tolzien who is terrible.

Yes we all get how they passed on Watson and Mahomes. Why we going to continue to beat that drum?  We cannot reverse it or change the past.  Only losers continue to dwell on things like that. Time to move on and see if this can be salvaged.

Bears will now be forced to make a move for another QB.  I'm willing to give Nagy a chance to pick another guy.  The first step is realizing that it is not going to work with what you have and signs are pointing to them acknowledging that so that is a start.

Edited October 29, 2019 by topwop1

[WindyCity]

Just now, topwop1 said:

They only have Brissett because they were forced to make a trade for him when Luck missed all of 2017, before that they had Scott Tolzien who is terrible.

Yes we all get how they passed on Watson and Mahomes. Why we going to continue to beat that drum?  We cannot reverse it or change the past.  Only loser continue to dwell on things like that. Time to move on and see if this can be salvaged.

Bears will now be forced to make a move for another QB.  I'm willing to give Nagy a chance to pick another guy.

 

 

I am also willing to give Nagy a chance with a real QB.

The Watson and Mahomes thing is relevant because it adds to the enormity of Pace's misevaluation. It wasn't a bad QB year, it was an exceptional QB year and Pace managed to pick the bust. It is like going to the grocery store and there are 3 apples and you pick the one rotten one. He had a 66% chance to get it right and he failed.

Trubisky busting is not a toe stub. It is a crippling move. We should start treating it as such.

 

The Bears will just go get another QB. They have been doing that for my entire life.

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

2 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

They only have Brissett because they were forced to make a trade for him when Luck missed all of 2017, before that they had Scott Tolzien who is terrible.

Yes we all get how they passed on Watson and Mahomes. Why we going to continue to beat that drum?  We cannot reverse it or change the past.  Only loser continue to dwell on things like that. Time to move on and see if this can be salvaged.

Bears will now be forced to make a move for another QB.  I'm willing to give Nagy a chance to pick another guy.

 

 

I like to spend an hour every day thinking about it, right before I look up the price of the price of Apple stock in 02, and after I check out pictures of how hot the girl I dumped freshman year turned out to be.  Keeps centered and focused on success.

[dll2000]

46 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

This is a complete GMing Disaster

-Your hand picked, traded up for, conviction QB, will be on every biggest draft misses special produced for 20 years.

-Your hand picked coach is melting down.

-Your 2018 rookie class has not taken a step forward.

-Your 2017 boutique TE pick [Shaheen] is a bust.

-Your 8 million/season TE has disappeared into a mysterious groin injury.

-His high priced OL has under performed.

I think obviously the QB miss is huge.  It is not quite passing on Jordan to select Bowie huge, but still really huge.

Think about being Portland GM for a minute though.   Jordan was a skinny athletic jumping bean with an okay jumper.  He didn't become great until he developed that jumper later in his NBA career, even Dean Smith said that time and again.  Clyde Drexler was a superstar already playing same position.

It was an era dominated by the big man, not the guard as well.   You needed a good center or a great front line to win titles was conventional wisdom in those days.

It made logical sense.  Only guy at time who was saying Portland was nuts for passing on Jordan was Bobby Knight who coached him in Olympics and saw first hand what a psycho Jordan was for winning.    Knight told David Letterman that he spoke to Portland GM on phone, who was a friend, and told him to take Jordan.  GM said, "I got Drexler, I need a center."  Knight said, "play Jordan at center then."

But you see it wasn't an illogical move.  It just turned out disastrous.   

Pace was swinging for fences.  Mahomes was a strong armed QB coming from a long line of strong armed QBs coming from a long line of Mike Leach system QBs that busted out in NFL after 1 year.   Watson was an inaccurate scrambler playing on stacked teams.

Trubisky was a strong armed, smart, humble, accurate QB with athletic ability.   It was easy to fall in love.  You knew he was a project, but one that you could see hitting.

Shaheen was a potential pick that didn't pan.  I think he likes to take those gambles on small school or injured guys, but screwed up here using a 2nd for it.  

Burton was a need and was familiar with system, he over paid, but he had to fill the position.  Pace didn't know he was mental.   Nor could he anticipate whatever is wrong with Roquan Smith.  Everyone at Georgia wanted to have his baby they had nothing but great things to say.

I think it would be tough to say on paper that your O line in 2019 was going to suck as bad as it has.   I think the fault lies that it was apparent that was case about 1.5 weeks into padded camp and nothing was done.  It was seen as an aberration or a result of a supremely great D line that they wouldn't be facing in regular season.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dll2000]

Just like Steelers passed on Dan Marino.

Terry Bradshaw is one of most overrated QBs in NFL history.  Steelers knew they won their titles in the trenches O line and D line.  Joe Greene and co. was reason for Steelers success and dynasty.

So with that thinking they passed on Marino in draft when they needed a QB and took best DL on their board who busted because he got hurt or never would have been good anyway.  Who knows.   

It wasn't bad thinking.  It just didn't work out.  Perhaps if that DL was Reggie White or someone like that nobody would have ever cared, but Rooney went to his death bed complaining about passing on Marino.

 

[WindyCity]

12 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said:

I like to spend an hour every day thinking about it, right before I look up the price of the price of Apple stock in 02, and after I check out pictures of how hot the girl I dumped freshman year turned out to be.  Keeps centered and focused on success.

I like to look at all options when assessing whether the right decisions were made.

If you had 3 crappy options then making a bad decision is likely and almost a given.

If you have 2/3 good options and make the only bad option available, then you are an idiot.

[topwop1]

3 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

I like to look at all options when assessing whether the right decisions were made.

If you had 3 crappy options then making a bad decision is likely and almost a given.

If you have 2/3 good options and make the only bad option available, then you are an idiot.

The same thing can be said right now for John Dorsey taking Baker Mayfield #1 overall.  Is he a bad GM or an idiot?  I don't think so.  He worked in some good organizations in GB and KC and had a hand in drafting both Rodgers and Mahomes.

Sometimes you just miss.  Btw this is not me in any way declaring Mayfield is a bust but right now it's looking like another Trubisky situation for the Browns.

[WindyCity]

7 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

The same thing can be said right now for John Dorsey taking Baker Mayfield #1 overall.  Is he a bad GM or an idiot?  I don't think so.  He worked in some good organizations in GB and KC and had a hand in drafting both Rodgers and Mahomes.

Sometimes you just miss.  Btw this is not me in any way declaring Mayfield is a bust but right now it's looking like another Trubisky situation for the Browns.

Now we are comparing ourselves to the Browns?

If the best comparisons we can make for Pace is that he has put himself in the same situation as the Browns and Jags then he should probably be fired.

 

Missing on a top 10 QB is crippling to a team. It is not simply something that you bounce back from. I would expect if Mayfield does bust out that it very well could cost Dorsey his job.