Inside Linebacker ... IT IS TIME

[AlexGreen#20]

27 minutes ago, Joe said:

That play alone is why we needed to fire Pettine, extend Kenny, and overhaul the DL and ILB position...

See above. Fackrell.

[packfanfb]

On 1/27/2020 at 11:55 AM, Outpost31 said:

And Littleton sucks.  A little easy to be ILB when you know that there won’t be a single play in the game where Donald isn’t doubled.  He ain’t getting that luxury here, and if he came here and Blake went there you’d be thinking, “Damn, Blake got leg transplants cuz he fast.”

Meh. You're off on this. Littleton makes a ton of plays, including several in the passing game that have zero to do with Donald. Not sure how one could say otherwise, it's clear as day. Martinez simply can't make those types of plays. It's why 32 GMs would agree unanimously that Littleton is the better player. He'd be a major upgrade at the position for us, but he might be too expensive. I wouldn't pay him Smith/Mosley money and he might get there. He's really the only FA ILB who interests me. I'd maybe look at Trevathan on a cheaper deal given his veteran experience and pair him with a top draft pick at the other spot. 

[MacReady]

Just now, packfanfb said:

Meh. You're off on this. Littleton makes a ton of plays, including several in the passing game that have zero to do with Donald. Not sure how one could say otherwise, it's clear as day. Martinez simply can't make those types of plays. It's why 32 GMs would agree unanimously that Littleton is the better player. He'd be a major upgrade at the position for us, but he might be too expensive. I wouldn't pay him Smith/Mosley money and he might get there. He's really the only FA ILB who interests me. I'd maybe look at Trevathan on a cheaper deal given his veteran experience and pair him with a top draft pick at the other spot. 

Lol you don't know WTF you're talking about.  You literally said you wanted Littleton to add speed he's literally no faster than Martinez whatsoever.  You really need to shut up about it because you've been proven wrong about "bad" plays by Martinez so many times you can't even keep count because every time AG embarrasses you on one of your stupid complains you disappear. 

Littleton is crap. 

Wade Philips has gotten a pro bowl or all-pro ILB in every single team he's been the defensive coordinator for and you don't think that's significant?  Lol. 

You're ****ing wrong and if Littleton was here and Martine was there you'd be whining about not having Martinez, who just flies around and makes plays everywhere that have nothing to do with Donald. 

Littleton had ONE more tackle for loss than Martinez.
Littleton had ONE more interception than Martinez.
HALF more sacks.
TWO more QB hits.

You don't know WTF you're talking about. 

You think Littleton is magically more athletic than Martinez but you're out of your damn mind because he's not. 

Martinez had a better 40 time.
A single inch separates their vertical.
A single inch separates their broad jump.
Martinez had a better 3 cone by .13 seconds.
Martinez had a better 20 yard shuttle by .12 seconds.

AND MARTINEZ IS 10 POUNDS HEAVIER THAN LITTLETON.

You don't know what in the hell you are talking about.  Littleton is not faster than Martinez.  He is not quicker than Martinez.  He is not especially better than Martinez.  If their roles and expectations were switched, Littleton would be trash and Martinez would be all-pro.

If Martinez had been a Ram  last year and Littleton a Packer, Martinez would be primed for a huge payday this offseason.

You need to quit. 

 

[MacReady]

I'm not even ****ing defending Martinez.  I don't like him either.  But seriously people need to STFU about these crap/average ILBs who they think is better because they saw a highlight. 

[Packerraymond]

7 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Lol you don't know WTF you're talking about.  You literally said you wanted Littleton to add speed he's literally no faster than Martinez whatsoever.  You really need to shut up about it because you've been proven wrong about "bad" plays by Martinez so many times you can't even keep count because every time AG embarrasses you on one of your stupid complains you disappear. 

Littleton is crap. 

Wade Philips has gotten a pro bowl or all-pro ILB in every single team he's been the defensive coordinator for and you don't think that's significant?  Lol. 

You're ****ing wrong and if Littleton was here and Martine was there you'd be whining about not having Martinez, who just flies around and makes plays everywhere that have nothing to do with Donald. 

Littleton had ONE more tackle for loss than Martinez.
Littleton had ONE more interception than Martinez.
HALF more sacks.
TWO more QB hits.

You don't know WTF you're talking about. 

You think Littleton is magically more athletic than Martinez but you're out of your damn mind because he's not. 

Martinez had a better 40 time.
A single inch separates their vertical.
A single inch separates their broad jump.
Martinez had a better 3 cone by .13 seconds.
Martinez had a better 20 yard shuttle by .12 seconds.

AND MARTINEZ IS 10 POUNDS HEAVIER THAN LITTLETON.

You don't know what in the hell you are talking about.  Littleton is not faster than Martinez.  He is not quicker than Martinez.  He is not especially better than Martinez.  If their roles and expectations were switched, Littleton would be trash and Martinez would be all-pro.

If Martinez had been a Ram  last year and Littleton a Packer, Martinez would be primed for a huge payday this offseason.

You need to quit. 

 

Littleton moves better on the football field than Martinez, end of story. Don't care what their shorts numbers were.

That said, I'm not paying big money to a position that largely is determined by what goes on in front of you. ILB is the RB of the defense, with the caveat that they have the mic in their helmet to relay the plays.

No big money to ILBs. Pay the big guys and magically your ILBs will look better.

[MacReady]

Just now, Packerraymond said:

Littleton moves better on the football field than Martinez, end of story. Don't care what their shorts numbers were.

That said, I'm not paying big money to a position that largely is determined by what goes on in front of you. ILB is the RB of the defense, with the caveat that they have the mic in their helmet to relay the plays.

No big money to ILBs. Pay the big guys and magically your ILBs will look better.

Please don't act like moving on the football field better has any significance when comparing the coordinators.  Things change when you're expected to juggle all the responsibilities the way Martinez does while literally being asked to juggle.  I literally saw Martinez juggling on the field he has that many responsibilities. 

You're basically agreeing with me here though, so I won't be too rough on you. 

I'm just going to continue being rough on the guy who was pissed all 4 times that we didn't sign Zach Brown after he was cut all 4 times.  He was literally complaining about not having signed Brown instead of the Eagles three weeks after he had been cut by the Eagles, signed by the Cardinals and cut by the Cardinals.  Lol. 

[Packerraymond]

1 minute ago, Outpost31 said:

Please don't act like moving on the football field better has any significance when comparing the coordinators.  Things change when you're expected to juggle all the responsibilities the way Martinez does while literally being asked to juggle.  I literally saw Martinez juggling on the field he has that many responsibilities. 

You're basically agreeing with me here though, so I won't be too rough on you. 

I'm just going to continue being rough on the guy who was pissed all 4 times that we didn't sign Zach Brown after he was cut all 4 times.  He was literally complaining about not having signed Brown instead of the Eagles three weeks after he had been cut by the Eagles, signed by the Cardinals and cut by the Cardinals.  Lol. 

Littleton would certainly be better in pass game situations here, run game, I think it's even. Depends on the DL in front of you. I just wouldn't take Littleton's Combine numbers and say he isn't the athlete Blake is. He's clearly a more fluid mover and that helps him in space. Blake has some solid numbers but he's very clearly not the same mover in pads that his numbers show.

[MacReady]

Just now, Packerraymond said:

Littleton would certainly be better in pass game situations here, run game, I think it's even. Depends on the DL in front of you. I just wouldn't take Littleton's Combine numbers and say he isn't the athlete Blake is. He's clearly a more fluid mover and that helps him in space. Blake has some solid numbers but he's very clearly not the same mover in pads that his numbers show.

It's negligible.  Wasn't trying to suggest Martinez is unquestionably the better athlete, but that Littleton is not the super duper fast elite ILB Martinez is. 

The most important part of those numbers is that Martinez did it carrying 10 more pounds.  Littleton is at 228.  You think someone at 228 is going to come in and take on untouched blockers any better than Martinez does? 

[Packerraymond]

21 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

It's negligible.  Wasn't trying to suggest Martinez is unquestionably the better athlete, but that Littleton is not the super duper fast elite ILB Martinez is. 

The most important part of those numbers is that Martinez did it carrying 10 more pounds.  Littleton is at 228.  You think someone at 228 is going to come in and take on untouched blockers any better than Martinez does? 

No ILB is going to take on unblocked 320 pounders. That's a recipe for bad run defense. That's most of our problem to begin with.

[MacReady]

Just now, Packerraymond said:

No ILB is going to take on unblocked 320 pounders. That's a recipe for bad run defense. That's most of our problem to begin with.

Let's put Rashan back there.  Hightower sometimes plays EDGE, why not Rashan sometimes playing ILB?  Brilliant. 

[Packerraymond]

17 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Let's put Rashan back there.  Hightower sometimes plays EDGE, why not Rashan sometimes playing ILB?  Brilliant. 

You want small, fast players back there who can flow to the ball freely. Back in the 90s-mid 2000s NFL Kwon Alexander, Lavante David, Devin Bush type LBs would never have been desired. Now it's all any defensive coordinator wants. Right now we have a mix over an overly complicated run fit scheme and mediocre to bad front 7 players trying to execute it. 

[packfanfb]

2 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

I'm not even ****ing defending Martinez.  I don't like him either.  But seriously people need to STFU about these crap/average ILBs who they think is better because they saw a highlight. 

You literally have no idea what you're talking about. That's why you keep talking about Martinez's 40 time and just being loud and using capital letters per usual. You talk about Littleton having Donald like Martinez didn't have Clark...the guy who statistically outperformed Donald in the second half the season in every category. But you didn't bring that up because you have some affinity for defending Martinez. If you don't want a guy like Littleton because of the money just say so...that's the argument you're looking for here, not the one you keep repeating involving combine numbers from 5+ years ago. 

This whole conversation started with me simply saying Littleton is my FA crush and you ran in tagging me with "Littleton is crap because he has Aaron Donald" and "Martinez is good because he's never played with any good defensive lineman and he's faster than Littleton." Let's just ignore Littleton's superior stats including 22 PD in the last 2 years compared to 5 for Martinez. I guess that was just Donald too. 

Edited February 1, 2020 by packfanfb

[Skippy]

4 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

We've already established Fackrell blew contain on that. Martinez not making up for Fackrell's screw up by making a superstar play doesn't make that his fault. 

Fackrell blew it; Martinez still should have easily have been able to make that play with a 2 yard loss at the minimum, instead he whiffs completely. Our last safety #25 I think missed what should have been a tackle at the 4 yard line as well. Amos and Savage did nothing to help on that play as well. 

[Packerraymond]

2 minutes ago, Skippy said:

Fackrell blew it; Martinez still should have easily have been able to make that play with a 2 yard loss at the minimum, instead he whiffs completely. Our last safety #25 I think missed what should have been a tackle at the 4 yard line as well. Amos and Savage did nothing to help on that play as well. 

Here are the ILBs that could make that play, Kuechly, Wagner, David, Jaylon Smith, Kendricks.

This is real football, not Madden. Calling that an easy plays shows you don't know what an easy play is. Big money ILBs make that play. Blake is not that.

[MacReady]

Lol.  Clark statistically outperformed Donald.  But only in second half of season.

Superior passes defended stats. 

Passes defended

Watch his ****ing highlights and tell me if that's impressive play or benefitting from others.  He's literally just sitting in the middle of the ****ing field on one of those pass defenses you're raving about.  45 second mark.  Highlight before that he runs untouched and gets a sack.  pLayMakERS.

Play after that it's a ball tipped and he runs under it.  Impressive being where the ball gets tipped to. 

I literally LOL'd at the next play.  Derek Carr literally throws it directly to him.  Lol.  He's not doing anything impressive other than being there and Carr literally throws it directly to him.  Lol.  Watch it.  1:19 in the video.  Lololol.  Soooooo impressive. 

The play after that he's on his RB, sure, but the ball hits his back.  He gets one of those fantastic passes defended stats for that.  Lol.  Ooooooh passes defended. 

Play after that he has a nice leap and knocks a Wilson pass away.  This is not a coverage PD, he hits it at the line by jumping.  Bravo. 

Two plays after this (he chased Wilson into a throwaway), he gets an interception on an underthrown ball. 

Play after that is literally the first play in this entire video where I felt he made a nice play. 

So yeah, it must be nice to have all these plays go your way for Littleton. 

@packfanfb, please show me where Littleton isn't exactly what I said.  Benefitting from others on his team.  This entire video is him lucking into things with a couple nice plays, granted. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ8hQ5jW5RI

Next one is Blake's. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0-LnnPxoaE

They're the same player separated by negligible athleticism boost by Littleton. 

He's not what you think he is. 

As far as your super duper Passes Defended, Blake Martinez had 8 in 2017.  Dom's last year.  Littleton's career high is 13.  That's not some massive difference.  It's scheme and what's in front of them.  Prove me wrong. 

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by Outpost31