The MMA Thread | Jones-Miocic officially set for UFC 309 at MSG in November

[GSUeagles14]

2 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

Any of his last 3 I suppose? idk, but its not like Colby's resume is all that great either and just recently lost to Usman

Nate Diaz isn’t top 10, rda was already old and in the wrong division and Gunnar Nelson (really???). And sure, colbys ain’t great either but it’s likely a tick better and he put on one of the best fights ever that he possibly was two min short of winning.

[JaguarCrazy2832]

2 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

Nate Diaz isn’t top 10, rda was already old and in the wrong division and Gunnar Nelson (really???). And sure, colbys ain’t great either but it’s likely a tick better and he put on one of the best fights ever that he possibly was two min short of winning.

That only tick is a washed TWood though, lets not act like Colby beat anyone of note either

The fact you use the phrase "likely a tick better" though definitely means its close enough for you to calm down lol

It was a great fight and id definitely tune in but like you said...we're talking about a tick of difference. Give me the more fresh matchup, the one that we havent seen since 2015 rather than the one we saw 18 months ago...

[GSUeagles14]

34 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

That only tick is a washed TWood though, lets not act like Colby beat anyone of note either

The fact you use the phrase "likely a tick better" though definitely means its close enough for you to calm down lol

It was a great fight and id definitely tune in but like you said...we're talking about a tick of difference. Give me the more fresh matchup, the one that we havent seen since 2015 rather than the one we saw 18 months ago...

Huh? You’re solely comparing Colby and Leon’s past opponents. Colbys history is better and as i said we’ve already seen a historic fight that absolutely deserves a rematch.

 

wonderboy deserves it more by a mile, and quite frankly chiesas is in the mix. Leon cherry picked fights, dodged anyone that could beat him and simply doesn’t inspire much confidence he can be competitive. 

 

[JaguarCrazy2832]

1 hour ago, GSUeagles14 said:

Huh? You’re solely comparing Colby and Leon’s past opponents. Colbys history is better and as i said we’ve already seen a historic fight that absolutely deserves a rematch.

 

wonderboy deserves it more by a mile, and quite frankly chiesas is in the mix. Leon cherry picked fights, dodged anyone that could beat him and simply doesn’t inspire much confidence he can be competitive. 

 

How is that any different than what Colby has done? Colby didnt want the Leon fight. Colby took the Woodley fight after Leon couldn't make it happen 

[GSUeagles14]

53 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

How is that any different than what Colby has done? Colby didnt want the Leon fight. Colby took the Woodley fight after Leon couldn't make it happen 

this isnt complicated, because, again, Colby just fought in possibly a top 3 fight ever. An immediate rematch would have been completely justified. He almost shouldnt of had to fight again. On top of that, hes a star that will sell ppvs by himself.  Leon has no case for a fight over Colby. 

A few guys have a case over Leon though. WOnderboy, Luque, heck, Id love to see Chiesa vs Leon. Luque seems to be taking the road that the UFC likes to give to up and coming title challengers. Which makes sense, hes an exciting fighter, finishes people (8 finished in his last 10 fights) and has visibly improved over the last couple years. 

[Soggust]

2 hours ago, GSUeagles14 said:

this isnt complicated, because, again, Colby just fought in possibly a top 3 fight ever. An immediate rematch would have been completely justified. He almost shouldnt of had to fight again. On top of that, hes a star that will sell ppvs by himself.  Leon has no case for a fight over Colby. 

A few guys have a case over Leon though. WOnderboy, Luque, heck, Id love to see Chiesa vs Leon. Luque seems to be taking the road that the UFC likes to give to up and coming title challengers. Which makes sense, hes an exciting fighter, finishes people (8 finished in his last 10 fights) and has visibly improved over the last couple years. 

But obviously, simply having a great fight doesn't guarantee you a rematch (especially when you were TKO'd) and I'm not sure I have seen anything that suggests Colby is "a star that will sell ppvs by himself". Not sure what the numbers for UFC 245 were, because they don't release them anymore, but prior to that he doesn't seem to have been a very big draw.

I am fine with either Colby or Edwards vs Usman next though, honestly. I think whoever isn't fighting Usman should either wait or fight Jorge (and both have good stories to do so). You definitely lost me on Wonderboy and Luque having cases over Leon. I love Wonderboy but he's 2-2 in his last 4 (even though he was robbed vs Till) and was KO'd by a guy not even in the promotion anymore. I don't think Luque's resume is all that much better than Edwards (besides the finish rate you eluded to, which is fair) and his last two losses were literally to Wonderboy and Edwards lol. Also, Luque is fighting Chiesa at 265 so it's moot anyway.

[GSUeagles14]

1 hour ago, Soggust said:

But obviously, simply having a great fight doesn't guarantee you a rematch (especially when you were TKO'd) and I'm not sure I have seen anything that suggests Colby is "a star that will sell ppvs by himself". Not sure what the numbers for UFC 245 were, because they don't release them anymore, but prior to that he doesn't seem to have been a very big draw.

I am fine with either Colby or Edwards vs Usman next though, honestly. I think whoever isn't fighting Usman should either wait or fight Jorge (and both have good stories to do so). You definitely lost me on Wonderboy and Luque having cases over Leon. I love Wonderboy but he's 2-2 in his last 4 (even though he was robbed vs Till) and was KO'd by a guy not even in the promotion anymore. I don't think Luque's resume is all that much better than Edwards (besides the finish rate you eluded to, which is fair) and his last two losses were literally to Wonderboy and Edwards lol. Also, Luque is fighting Chiesa at 265 so it's moot anyway.

UFc Covington vs Woodley got almost 1.1 million views, which is his most recent fight. Id argue that hes gotten even more famous over the last 2 years and that jump in viewership certainly paints a picture. Colby Covington is undeniably a star, that doesnt mean he can sell but hes significantly more well known than edwards. And I never said it guaranteed a rematch, but fughts like that have gotten ones in the past and no one should argue about seeing the fight again. 

 

Colbys already next, thats confirmed. The question was is Leon after that. Thankfully this isnt boxing and the UFC understands that everyone will lose occasionally. Wonderboy just dominated two of their bigger prospects, has a name, and everyone knows how good he is. I dont care that he got upset 2+ years ago by pettis. and while Luques resume might not be better in terms of opponent, he finishes guys, which we know the UFC likes. And I really, really dont care about a loss from 2017. Hes had 16 fights in the UFC, 3 losses and 13 finishes. That would mean out of 14 wins, hes only allowed it to go to decision once. Edwards has 11 wins and 3 finishes. Not really the same.

[Soggust]

39 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

UFc Covington vs Woodley got almost 1.1 million views, which is his most recent fight. Id argue that hes gotten even more famous over the last 2 years and that jump in viewership certainly paints a picture. Colby Covington is undeniably a star, that doesnt mean he can sell but hes significantly more well known than edwards. And I never said it guaranteed a rematch, but fughts like that have gotten ones in the past and no one should argue about seeing the fight again. 

 

Colbys already next, thats confirmed. The question was is Leon after that. Thankfully this isnt boxing and the UFC understands that everyone will lose occasionally. Wonderboy just dominated two of their bigger prospects, has a name, and everyone knows how good he is. I dont care that he got upset 2+ years ago by pettis. and while Luques resume might not be better in terms of opponent, he finishes guys, which we know the UFC likes. And I really, really dont care about a loss from 2017. Hes had 16 fights in the UFC, 3 losses and 13 finishes. That would mean out of 14 wins, hes only allowed it to go to decision once. Edwards has 11 wins and 3 finishes. Not really the same.

You sound like Dana White and not a snobby fan concerned about the integrity of the rankings, so I imagine you're probably closer to an accurate prediction, but I certainly disagree with the logic (again, I'm fine with Colby vs Usman bc it's been declared basically since Burns lost). I just don't think Edwards needs another fight for a title shot if he wants to wait until after.

[GSUeagles14]

8 minutes ago, Soggust said:

You sound like Dana White and not a snobby fan concerned about the integrity of the rankings, so I imagine you're probably closer to an accurate prediction, but I certainly disagree with the logic (again, I'm fine with Colby vs Usman bc it's been declared basically since Burns lost). I just don't think Edwards needs another fight for a title shot if he wants to wait until after.

huh? edwards is 3, wonderboy is 4, luque is 5. is there really that big of a difference?

[Soggust]

2 hours ago, GSUeagles14 said:

huh? edwards is 3, wonderboy is 4, luque is 5. is there really that big of a difference?

Yeah. A 10 fight undefeated streak is vastly more deserving than either of their specific resumes, regardless of finish rate or marketability. I don't think any of the points you mentioned in defense of them is even remotely close to trumping his streak - unless you are Dana White and trying to sell tickets instead of preserve the 'integrity of the rankings' (which I understand is BS and not the way the UFC runs, I'm just being idealistic).

[FinneasGage]

i think the most impressive thing (im prone to hyperbole but at least top 5) a fighter's done in the past decade is cormier not getting KO'd by prime rumble on two occasions. sucks we never got to see rumble take on bones. 

[GSUeagles14]

8 hours ago, Soggust said:

Yeah. A 10 fight undefeated streak is vastly more deserving than either of their specific resumes, regardless of finish rate or marketability. I don't think any of the points you mentioned in defense of them is even remotely close to trumping his streak - unless you are Dana White and trying to sell tickets instead of preserve the 'integrity of the rankings' (which I understand is BS and not the way the UFC runs, I'm just being idealistic).

As I already pointed out, the three guys in debate are literally ranked 3-5. Preserving the "integrity of the rankings" doesnt really apply here since, for the third time, they are ranked so closely together. No one would say the rankings are meaningless in the 4th ranked guy gets a shot over the 3rd ranked guy. And the 10 fight undefeated streak is solely your opinion, perfectly acceptable to weigh in quality of opponent and quality of performance. 

[JaguarCrazy2832]

Since we love to talk about Nate Diaz, how he has cardio for days and hear jokes about him going 6 rounds, 10 rounds etc. Doesnt that make you wonder why he doesnt put it on earlier in the fight? The cardio is there but it just seems like he almost has too much left in the tank. Not saying he would've beat Leon but its one that always was in my mind when I was in Cross Country, you never want to finish the race with gas in the tank and I feel like Diaz just never unloads until its too late

[JaguarCrazy2832]

Does that Flyweight championship fight go against Figgy if it was Garbrandt in there? Same weight cut issues and everything? That would've been a very interesting what-if scenario 

[Soggust]

1 minute ago, GSUeagles14 said:

As I already pointed out, the three guys in debate are literally ranked 3-5. Preserving the "integrity of the rankings" doesnt really apply here since, for the third time, they are ranked so closely together. No one would say the rankings are meaningless in the 4th ranked guy gets a shot over the 3rd ranked guy. And the 10 fight undefeated streak is solely your opinion, perfectly acceptable to weigh in quality of opponent and quality of performance. 

But they would, if there was a vast difference in resumes between the two - as there is in this case. 

You can argue that it's just my opinion, and that's fair (as is yours). But I would certainly expect the majority of educated fans to agree that a 10 fight undefeated streak is more valuable than being:

• 2-2 in last four and 3-3 in last 6 (including 2 failed title shots including one of the most notoriously boring fights in UFC Title Fight history)
• KO'd by a guy who is no longer in the promotion 3 fights ago

Your response to this is literally:

• Wonderboy has a big name. 
• Wonderboy is coming off two DECISIONS over "prospects".
• Meh, they are close in the rankings.

I'm just going to have to agree to disagree here, because that's so far outside the realm of reasonableness for me, it's just not worth debating.

To me, this is basically just saying "Well, there's a case to jump Edwards because I like Wonderboy more and he's close in rankings", which is a fair perspective in reality because fans sell tickets, but I don't think it's fair in an idealistic vacuum comparing resumes - that's all I'm saying.

And I really like Wonderboy, so I don't want to disparage him anymore here, but I just don't see how anyone could reasonably suggest that he is ready to jump Edwards without another win or two.