Who will have the best career?

[HTTRDynasty]

4 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

No problem. Let's not forget Andrew Thomas, Cee Dee Lamb, or Delpit as well other targets of mine as well. 

Why stop there?  I'm sure if you take all the prospects in the draft as your targets, you'll find at least three HOFers.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by HTTRDynasty

[Skins212689]

Just now, HTTRDynasty said:

Why stop there?  I'm sure if you take all the prospects in the draft as your targets, you'll find at least three HOFers.

I'm a man of my word and those are the target's I would take over just Chase Young to fill the many wholes this team has. 1 more name Austin Jackson. Don't know much about Wirfs from Iowa but I know Beckon from Louisville has been getting praise as well. Put it this way I would find Trent Williams replacement in the two trade sceneriors I would accept for the #2 pick. 

[naptownskinsfan]

1 hour ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Look at the collective lines they were on. Bosa is on a dominate line. LT was on one. Deacon Jones was on one. The greats have support. They arnt one man gangs.

Clowney had JJ but for years 1 or the other wasnt healthy. And with an All Timer like JJ, outside maybe someone like Deacon Jones. Hes the hardest in the world to get pressure there in front of to take the stat point.

2018 SF ranked 2nd in Pressure %. Then they added Bosa. So he can get those stats easier than those without such a great supporting cast. If Chase goes out and piles stats, that means the rest of the Redskins 3rd ranked Pressure % line is doing their job same as the year before to allow him that freedom.

The problem with what you are saying with pressure percentage is that things are changing going from a 3-4 to a 4-3 defense.  The importance of the defensive line is the #1 thing for the defense that Del Rio is installing, and roles are going to change.  We also don't know how the coaching staff views that kind of change, and whether or not they have any scenarios lined up to trade anyone to acquire more picks- since everyone seems to be so focused on the Young vs Tua debate (and with everyone being sent home, it's hard for sources to leak those types of rumors.)  Every top 4-3 team from the previous season has a lot invested into their defensive lines, moreso than other positions.  It's also become one of the most important things to do since teams are limited with how they can cover receivers anyone.  

Having two top 10 talents, including a generational type player in Young, as bookends for the coming decade is huge for this team.  We haven't had that kind of talent since Gibbs 1.0.  

[PARROTHEAD]

40 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

The problem with what you are saying with pressure percentage is that things are changing going from a 3-4 to a 4-3 defense.  The importance of the defensive line is the #1 thing for the defense that Del Rio is installing, and roles are going to change.  We also don't know how the coaching staff views that kind of change, and whether or not they have any scenarios lined up to trade anyone to acquire more picks- since everyone seems to be so focused on the Young vs Tua debate (and with everyone being sent home, it's hard for sources to leak those types of rumors.)  Every top 4-3 team from the previous season has a lot invested into their defensive lines, moreso than other positions.  It's also become one of the most important things to do since teams are limited with how they can cover receivers anyone.  

Having two top 10 talents, including a generational type player in Young, as bookends for the coming decade is huge for this team.  We haven't had that kind of talent since Gibbs 1.0.  

I dont know. Im not seeing much of an issue. Sweat on the outside. The 2 Bamers with the Hokie rotating on the inside. Then add Chase on the other end. It doesnt sound to much different than the situation that Bosa walked into with SF. To add. Over half the time between Sweat and Kerrigan. One was dropping back in coverage. With the 4-3, Sweat will be applying steady pressure every play to bookend Chase.

Factor it all together. Skins were 24th in the league in % of plays blitzed. Over half the plays either Sweat, Kerrigan or whoever else played that outside spot was dropping back into coverage. Still ranked 3rd in pressure %. That tells you the guys in the middle are getting the job done. If we were 10th or 12th I could agree with you a bit more. But being 3rd tells me we have the talent we need.

[naptownskinsfan]

5 minutes ago, PARROTHEAD said:

I dont know. Im not seeing much of an issue. Sweat on the outside. The 2 Bamers with the Hokie rotating on the inside. Then add Chase on the other end. It doesnt sound to much different than the situation that Bosa walked into with SF. To add. Over half the time between Sweat and Kerrigan. One was dropping back in coverage. With the 4-3, Sweat will be applying steady pressure every play to bookend Chase.

Factor it all together. Skins were 24th in the league in % of plays blitzed. Over half the plays either Sweat, Kerrigan or whoever else played that outside spot was dropping back into coverage. Still ranked 3rd in pressure %. That tells you the guys in the middle are getting the job done. If we were 10th or 12th I could agree with you a bit more. But being 3rd tells me we have the talent we need.

You aren't wrong with your thoughts.  However, you've got to look at things from Rivera's shoes.  He is starting this five year plan now, Looking at who is going to be here long-term, and who fits the system he is ultimately putting into place.  As I outlined a few pages ago (maybe in a different thread, I'm not sure) the time on contract for some of those guys are running out.  Looking at a 5 year plan, which is what Rivera is likely doing, and Chase Young makes the most sense.  This is a team that's been really bad for a long time.  Even those guys who we like on the defensive line may not be the players that we think we have.  

[turtle28]

6 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Why stop there?  I'm sure if you take all the prospects in the draft as your targets, you'll find at least three HOFers.

Man, if every prospect got into the Hall of Fame off of pre draft hype Heath Shuler to Desmond Howard and Michael Westbrook would’ve been Montana to Rice & Taylor. How’d that pan out? Haha 😂 

[turtle28]

8 hours ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Look at the collective lines they were on. Bosa is on a dominate line. LT was on one. Deacon Jones was on one. The greats have support. They arnt one man gangs.

Clowney had JJ but for years 1 or the other wasnt healthy. And with an All Timer like JJ, outside maybe someone like Deacon Jones. Hes the hardest in the world to get pressure there in front of to take the stat point.

2018 SF ranked 2nd in Pressure %. Then they added Bosa. So he can get those stats easier than those without such a great supporting cast. If Chase goes out and piles stats, that means the rest of the Redskins 3rd ranked Pressure % line is doing their job same as the year before to allow him that freedom.

There’s also the fact which a lot of people overlook, while Watt does get double teamed more, it’s also true that it has never really mattered for guys like him and Aaron Donald bc they’re going to get theirs, they are just that dominant. Guys like Watt and Donald are going to take stats away from their teammates bc they’re so elite and they’ll get to the QB a step or half a step faster than their teammates. 

We all can agree Clowney isn’t an elite pass rusher, he doesn’t have enough pass rush moves and he doesn’t have an elite first step - heck the guy only had 3 sacks his junior year at South Carolina - but again, he makes other plays and causes disruption in almost every play and you don’t really realize that until you WATCH HIM PLAY THE GAMES! Go back and watch his game vs Phila last playoffs, he was dominant, all over the freakin field disrupting that Eagles offense and Eagles OL which is again, arguably the best in the NFL.

Also, I think most would agree that Clowney’s knee injuries as a college junior that led him to tearing his ACL as a rookie cost him to lose a step. In the Texans defense though, the top of the 2014 draft was one that had one of the most questions in NFL history.

Do you take a chance on an injured Clowney with all that talent? He only had 3 sacks as a junior bc of his knee issues after 13 as a sophomore.

Greg Robinson, Blake Bortles? Lmao!! Potential there but they’ve never reached it.

Sammy Watkins had been the most consistent out of the top 5 but Watkins never struck me as an elite WR. In this years draft he’d be behind Jeudy, Lamb & Ruggs and probably go in the late teens or early 20s.

Khalil Mack was the one, but the discussions were all over the place with him bc while he showed the talent - even against teams like Ohio State - being from Buffalo questioned if he could be that dominant consistently in the NFL. I certainly questioned it and I was wrong about him. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by turtle28

[Skins212689]

So are people expecting Chase Young to be more like Clowney or Watt? 

[HTTRDynasty]

I agree with @turtle28 about Clowney, to an extent. He looks like the most disruptive force in the league at times. For example, I recently watched the first 49ers vs Seahawks game from last year, and Clowney was EVERYWHERE. He had at least 7 plays that should have been sacks, but only ended up with 1 I think. He just seems to have really bad luck when it comes to converting pressures to sacks, but he does create a lot of clean-up sacks for his teammates. 
 

Clowney was also dominant in the games I watched versus Philly and GB in the playoffs last year. His main issue seems to be inconsistency. Because if he played like that at all times, he would have already been signed by now and would have several All Pros under his belt.
 

The 49ers game I referred to was a prime time game, same with the playoff games. He’s a guy who is extra motivated playing in front of a national audience. He just needs to force himself to make it a consistent motivation if he wants to live up to his draft hype and get the contract he’s seeking. 

[Doc Draper]

1 hour ago, Skins212689 said:

So are people expecting Chase Young to be more like Clowney or Watt? 

He plays more like clowney. I think his best comp is Kearse 

[PARROTHEAD]

19 minutes ago, Doc Draper said:

He plays more like clowney. I think his best comp is Kearse 

Im rolling with this guy.

[Skins212689]

1 hour ago, Doc Draper said:

He plays more like clowney. I think his best comp is Kearse 

I hope so, just will have to go after the QB's ankles to make that tackle. This is a penalty these days. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Skins212689

[Doc Draper]

So true. Now that there is a long term contract let’s see if Goodell will understand some famous words modified just a bit 

 

Gracchus: .Nfl fans are the mob. Conjure magic for them and they'll be distracted. Charge them outrageous prices and still they'll roar. The beating heart of Nfl fans is not the pristine passing play or politically correct social issues, it's the field of the stadiums. Bring them violence and blood and they will love him for it.

 

[naptownskinsfan]

1 hour ago, Doc Draper said:

So true. Now that there is a long term contract let’s see if Goodell will understand some famous words modified just a bit 

 

Gracchus: .Nfl fans are the mob. Conjure magic for them and they'll be distracted. Charge them outrageous prices and still they'll roar. The beating heart of Nfl fans is not the pristine passing play or politically correct social issues, it's the field of the stadiums. Bring them violence and blood and they will love him for it.

 

Win the crowd.