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AngusMcFife

Post Draft Roster Review

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One other thought that I was thinking during the draft; the Ravens organization and the Patriots organization... get a lot of credit for their team building strengths. The Carolina Panthers coach also seems to get a lot of credit on that front.

I found it interesting that each of those teams seemed (last I checked) to really be making a concerted effort to go with really building the defense as a priority over the offensive picks.

It made me think to how in training camp the defense is generally always ahead of where the offense is at that point.

With a potentially shortened season/preseason... perhaps these teams that specialize in strategy all felt like the best idea was to build defense first and foremost to truly give themselves an advantage this season. 

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4 hours ago, wackywabbit said:

Also, what's to stop us from moving Patrick Queen or Malik Harrison or Chuck Clark or Deshon Elliot on the end of the line and telling them to run around the tackle.

Yeah I thinks it's pretty clear that having a great edge rusher is not really important to the defense, it's more about versatile LBs who can rush the passer and either cover (Queen) or play downhill (Harrison).  

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9 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

One other thought that I was thinking during the draft; the Ravens organization and the Patriots organization... get a lot of credit for their team building strengths. The Carolina Panthers coach also seems to get a lot of credit on that front.

I found it interesting that each of those teams seemed (last I checked) to really be making a concerted effort to go with really building the defense as a priority over the offensive picks.

It made me think to how in training camp the defense is generally always ahead of where the offense is at that point.

With a potentially shortened season/preseason... perhaps these teams that specialize in strategy all felt like the best idea was to build defense first and foremost to truly give themselves an advantage this season. 

Not sure I agree completely here. 
we had five picks on offense and five on defense. Further, they nearly alternated over the course of the draft. 
 

1: LB

2: RB

3: DL

3: WR

3: LB

3: OL

4: OL

5: DL

6: WR

7: S

maybe a slight lean toward defense by virtue of the first round pick, but seemed like a very balanced approach/result for the most part. 

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14 hours ago, BareYourTeeth said:

Yup. Jacob Breeland, Michael Divinity, and Nigel Warrior are a few other notable guys with good chances.

Didn't realize we picked him up as an UDFA. Literally mocked him to us with the last pick of the draft in virtually every single mock I did this offseason. Easily my favorite tight end prospect in a largely underwhelming class. Think he has a great chance to stick around as our 3rd TE. 

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I doubt many agree with me here, but I liked the third day of the draft much more than the previous days. The first round is looong, and I can't understand the emphasis on stuff not related to football. This year it was specifically oriented towards if players had experienced some sort of tragedy.

Round 4-7 had a lot more football talk going on, relevant interview with coaches and talks about players, what they did well, what scouts and coaches saw with a player. I wish that was the format for the hole draft.

Have them broadcast round 1-2 on thursday, round 3-4 on friday and round 5-7 on saturday.

 

Anyways, recapping the ravens draft by rounds and players, I think they surprised us a little by ignoring cornerback and edge as a whole, but adding McPhee again, and we have a decent platoon of players at the edge position. Tight end was also ignored until UDFA time and we didn't get a true backup at tackle. We were most aggressive by double dipping at linebacker. Depending on who you ask, its a position where rotation is what brings value and we really addressed it that way.

1. rd. Patrick Queen, LB: We stayed put and got the consensus best linebacker in the draft. While he may only have 1 accumulated season worth of games, the speed, athleticism, the highlights at 20 years old is worth taking a gamble on.

2. rd. J.K. Dobbins, RB: I think I have made my point clear - I don't see the value in adding RB that early and I don't see Dobbins as such an amazing talent that we could not pass him up. Gus Edwards is on pace for a 4 year, 3.000 yards career with the Ravens. Dobbins has to exceed that. If he does that, then it is still better than drafting a Terrence Cody, Kamalei Correa, Arthur Brown etc. I doubt we get a bust here. I simply question value

2. rd. Justin Madubuike, DT: This is where the fun begins and I doubt anyone can complain. When we have to sub Brandon Williams out, this is the guy we put in. A rotational player at first, the only question I have is the comments from Bob McGinn, that had scouts tell him, that Madubuike wasn't that tough and commited. Time will tell if there is anything to that criticism

3. rd. Justin Jefferson, WR: We got speed and we got hands and we got YAC. If we want to do and end around, this is the guy for the job. If he was a bit more elusive, smooth and sudden, he would go higher, but his stiffness is obvious and we will have to see if that becomes a problem

3. rd. Malik Harrison, LB: If we want to play with two linebackers on the field, we don't get a better pair to supplement each other than Queen and Harrison. A bit suprising to me that we double dipped, but I can see this work very well

3. rd. Tyre Phillips, OG: Knew nothing of him, but we needed IOL and he was one of the tackle to guard converts the coaching staff has talked about. Seems like a people mover and he will have to battle it out with the rest

4. rd. Ben Bredeson, OG: We double dipped as we should. I had preferred others at the position or that we went with a Darnell Mooney, but we got more oline depth.

5. rd. Broderick Washington, DT: Knew nothing about him, but we need to get younger on defensive line and we now have 4 veterans in Ellis, Campbell, Williams and Wolfe and 3 young ones in Mack, Madubuike and Washington. Thats a healthy group up front

6. rd. James Proche, WR: Certainly fit what we want in a sure handed pass catcher, very productive. He can't separate, but he can get the ball and will thrive as a chainmover and on backside throws. He apparently has some injury concerns, so it will be interesting to see what happens here

7. rd. Geno Stone, S: Great great pick. Instant core special teamer and if we use him the right way, we have a very cerebral, instinctive safety. That worked well for us with Clark

UDFA. Jacob Breeland, TE: The only guy I have actually chosen in mock drafts for us this year. The talent is nice, but broke his leg and has somewhat been forgotten. I could see him being the guy that keep our UDFA streak alive

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38 minutes ago, Danand said:

 

UDFA. Jacob Breeland, TE: The only guy I have actually chosen in mock drafts for us this year. The talent is nice, but broke his leg and has somewhat been forgotten. I could see him being the guy that keep our UDFA streak alive

His numbers at Oregon are fairly impressive, particularly given the shortened senior season. Those yards per catch are great. Not always the easiest to compare, but they dwarf Cole Kmet’s averages. Also, same number of TD despite the shortened season. 
 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jacob-breeland-1.html

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Here's an early prediction of how the roster will shake out. 

OFFENSE (23): 

QB (2): Lamar, McSorely. 

RB (4): Dobbins, Ingram, Edwards, Hill

WR (6): Hollywood, Snead, Boykin, Scott, Duvernay, Proche

TE (3): Boyle, Andrews, Breeland

OT (3): Stanley, Brown, A. Smith

IOL (5) : Bozeman, Powers, Mekari, Bredeson, T. Phillips

PUP: Skura

Notable cuts: RGIII, C. Moore, D. Thomas

 

DEFENSE (27): 

DT (3): Williams, Ellis, Mack

DL (5): Wolfe, Campbell, Ricard, Madubuike, Washington

EDGE (4): Judon, Bowser, Ferguson, Ward

ILB (4): Queen, Harrison, Fort, Alaka

CB (6): Humphrey, Peters, Smith, Young, Marshall, Averett

S (5): Thomas, Clark, Elliot, Levine, Stone

Notable cuts: Ryan, Board

 

ST (3): Morgan, Koch, Tucker

 

In this scenario it is imbalanced to the defense, but Ricard plays on offense too. The defensive groupings that are somewhat fat are DL/DT, S, and WR. I don't see us going in to the season with 8 DL total but could be wrong. 5 safeties are a lot, but are helpful in ST. So I'd guess if an unmentioned UDFA balls out during camp he has a chance to make the roster regardless of position. 

Players who have to earn a roster spot: Scott, Breeland, Mack, Ellis, Alaka, Stone, Elliot

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This is the same roster I have with McPhee added. Haven't they adjusted the roster size already so we have more room for players?

Also, Ricard can count towards both as he is the fullback and probably the emergency backup for Boyle as an inline blocker

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8 minutes ago, Danand said:

This is the same roster I have with McPhee added. Haven't they adjusted the roster size already so we have more room for players?

Also, Ricard can count towards both as he is the fullback and probably the emergency backup for Boyle as an inline blocker

Kinda.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001106247/article/nfl-players-approve-cba-impact-on-league-in-2020-and-beyond

Quote

Teams are also getting bigger. The active roster on game day will go from 46 to 48 players, and one of the extra players has to be an offensive lineman. Practice squads will also expand, to 12 players in 2020 and 2021, and to 14 starting in 2022. Two practice-squad players each week can be elevated to the team's active roster, meaning that the roster during the week will effectively be 55. That, the league hopes, will help spread out the wear and tear players incur from the 17th game.

So it's still 53, but two guys from the practice squad can come up every week. 

Not mentioned in that paragraph is teams are required to carry at least 8 offensive linemen on the game day roster now. It must have been 7 before, I had never realized there was a floor. Makes sense though. With that in mind teams carrying 9 or 10 offensive linemen will probably be the norm. 

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3 hours ago, sp6488 said:

Not sure I agree completely here. 
we had five picks on offense and five on defense. Further, they nearly alternated over the course of the draft. 
 

1: LB

2: RB

3: DL

3: WR

3: LB

3: OL

—————

4: OL

5: DL

6: WR

7: S

maybe a slight lean toward defense by virtue of the first round pick, but seemed like a very balanced approach/result for the most part. 

Not that the last day of the draft isn’t important, especially with our squad... but the vast majority of year one (CV19 influenced season) impact talents will come from the first two days of the draft.

We got 3/5 with defense. What’s more RB is the one position on offense noted for historically having the shortest learning curve in the NFL. So really I don’t count that as antithesis to the point I was making.

We went with 4/5 positions that could have shorter learning curves. Again my point isn’t that offense wasn’t “valuable” this draft, but that the team and it’s draft strategy may have been influenced by wanting to get an early advantage by prioritizing positions with a quicker learning curves. I’m sure the talent of the players drafted played the biggest part, but especially when you consider a decision such as Denzel Mims vs JK Dobbins... if you think Mims year one impact could be further hindered by a limited offseason to build chemistry with Lamar, that would make the decision to go with a RB even easier... a guy who can come in and very quickly have an impact on the explosiveness of the rushing attack to give the offense another gear of consistent speed.

But back to defense, those front 7 players can each be given specific roles that they excel at early to allow them to excel schematically and perform well in games, while not having to overwhelm them with too much.

Where’s going OL early, you’d rather have the protections be handled by seasons vets when prep time is a factor. You’d also rather have WRs who know the ins and outs of your offense already and have built a chemistry already with your QB.

Even the WRs that we did take were special teams specialized options with Duvernay having been a pretty good Kick returner and Proche a quality punt returner. They can come in and excel in those roles early until they can be relied upon within the offense by virtue of having the playbook down and chemistry built within the offense on the field.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, AngusMcFife said:

Here's an early prediction of how the roster will shake out. 

OFFENSE (24): 

QB (3): Lamar, RG3, McSorely. 

RB (4): Dobbins, Ingram, Hill, Ricard

WR (5): Hollywood, Snead, Boykin, Duvernay, Proche

TE (3): Boyle, Andrews, Breeland

OT (3): Stanley, Brown Jr, A. Smith

IOL (6) : Bozeman, Powers, Mekari, Bredeson, T. Phillips, Skura

Notable cuts: Scott, C. Moore, D. Thomas

Notable trades: Edwards

DEFENSE (26): 

DT (2): Williams, Mack

DL (4): Wolfe, Campbell, Madubuike, Washington

EDGE (4): Judon, Bowser, Ferguson, Ward

ILB (4): Queen, Harrison, Fort, Alaka, Ryan

CB (6): Humphrey, Peters, Smith, Young, Marshall, Averett

S (5): Thomas, Clark, Elliot, Levine, Stone

Notable cuts: Board, Jelly

 

ST (3): Morgan, Koch, Tucker

I made some slight adjustments to make my prediction as well. I kept Ryan (for now) and got rid of Jelly. Feel 7 players along the DL (when including Ricard) is enough bodies, especially when Washington doubles as a DT and Ward doubles as a 3T in terms of their versatility. I kept Ryan only because of his special teams experience to guide the young guys on those special teams units... but he’s the first up if we decide to add a cap casualty from another team or something.

Got rid of Jaleel Scott, he should be able to make a depleted roster possibly, but for us he’s clearly not talented enough to see the field over Boykin... let’s not forget that while Scott had a good preseason, Boykin looked to be on another level from him in preseason. Then there’s no way he beats out Proche, Duvernay, and Snead for a roster spot... and because Proche and Duvernay are special teams specialists he won’t beat them out for the active roster.

So if I’m running a team with a running QB would I rather have a)  backup WR with no gameday impact or b) a third QB that has proven they can win games in case of injuries pile up? The answer is simple. No way Scott makes the roster over McSorely (and RG3... feel RG3 is a lock considering McSorely has no league experience in cultivating wins, while RG3 led the team to a win against the Steelers last season in their must win game).

Beyond that, I like the list you have. Just slight difference in opinion. Ryan will have to bring it on special teams though to unseat Jelly, but especially with all those young ILBs the team may value having another veteran LB in those LB meeting rooms.

Oh and I think after a camp injury or other teams having disappointing units that don’t impress after the first couple preseason games... they trade Gus Edwards for a 5th round pick to said team, perhaps a conditional 4th round pick depending on his playing time and production.

Edited by diamondbull424

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3 hours ago, Danand said:

I doubt many agree with me here, but I liked the third day of the draft much more than the previous days. The first round is looong, and I can't understand the emphasis on stuff not related to football. This year it was specifically oriented towards if players had experienced some sort of tragedy.

Round 4-7 had a lot more football talk going on, relevant interview with coaches and talks about players, what they did well, what scouts and coaches saw with a player. I wish that was the format for the hole draft.

Have them broadcast round 1-2 on thursday, round 3-4 on friday and round 5-7 on saturday.

 

I agree with you and had a similar thought. It’s more boring in that the players aren’t as exciting and generally after the 5th round I start to relax a bit more and am not as attentive, but they get rid of all the talking heads like Kurt Warner and Michael Irvin and it’s just draft specialists talking football.

FWIW CBS on their coverage of the draft that I saw on Day Two seemed to be more player focused throughout the draft than ESPN’s coverage. For instance here’s an example of their coverage.

Thats like 3-4 minutes of just talking about what Devin Duvernay might do for the Ravens.

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2 hours ago, coordinator0 said:

Kinda.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001106247/article/nfl-players-approve-cba-impact-on-league-in-2020-and-beyond

So it's still 53, but two guys from the practice squad can come up every week. 

Not mentioned in that paragraph is teams are required to carry at least 8 offensive linemen on the game day roster now. It must have been 7 before, I had never realized there was a floor. Makes sense though. With that in mind teams carrying 9 or 10 offensive linemen will probably be the norm. 

The Ravens won't keep an OL on the roster if he's not a legit NFL player though. Now I'm seeing 9 legit OL including Skura, who could be a PUP candidate. TBH I wish we didn't cut Greg Senat last year and let the Chiefs scoop him up. 

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16 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

The Ravens won't keep an OL on the roster if he's not a legit NFL player though. Now I'm seeing 9 legit OL including Skura, who could be a PUP candidate. TBH I wish we didn't cut Greg Senat last year and let the Chiefs scoop him up. 

Yeah the Ravens are at 9 for now if Skura is able to go the first week. It was more of a general observation. 

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1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said:

I made some slight adjustments to make my prediction as well. I kept Ryan (for now) and got rid of Jelly. Feel 7 players along the DL (when including Ricard) is enough bodies, especially when Washington doubles as a DT and Ward doubles as a 3T in terms of their versatility.

Yes I think there will be a position battle between Ellis and Mack. If Mack doesn't perform during camp he could easily be cut. Haven't seen Mack do much of anything yet. But he's young and under control, so he has that going for him.

Quote

I kept Ryan only because of his special teams experience to guide the young guys on those special teams units... but he’s the first up if we decide to add a cap casualty from another team or something.

The ILB battle is another one to watch. Any one of Ryan, Board, Alaka could make the team or be cut. It's all about performance (and injury, possibly). 

Quote

Got rid of Jaleel Scott, he should be able to make a depleted roster possibly, but for us he’s clearly not talented enough to see the field over Boykin... let’s not forget that while Scott had a good preseason, Boykin looked to be on another level from him in preseason. Then there’s no way he beats out Proche, Duvernay, and Snead for a roster spot... and because Proche and Duvernay are special teams specialists he won’t beat them out for the active roster.

The Ravens did choose to keep Scott on the 53 man roster all of last year, so they must think somewhat highly of him. Boykin was okay last year but only caught 13 balls. If Scott outperforms Boykin during training camp, that would put the coaches in an interesting position. 

Also I love the potential of Duvernay and Proche, but if either one is not picking things up in training camp and gets dinged, they could be a IR-stash candidate. Not all rookie WRs are ready for the NFL. 

Quote

So if I’m running a team with a running QB would I rather have a)  backup WR with no gameday impact or b) a third QB that has proven they can win games in case of injuries pile up? The answer is simple. No way Scott makes the roster over McSorely (and RG3... feel RG3 is a lock considering McSorely has no league experience in cultivating wins, while RG3 led the team to a win against the Steelers last season in their must win game).

I wasn't impressed with RGIII's play last year, and I think he's somewhat self-centered. He didn't protect himself running either, he could easily injure himself. I just don't see the point in keeping him. If McSorely regresses we can send him to the practice squad and keep RGIII. Keeping 3 QBs on the roster is unnecessary since we don't need a developmental QB. We just need one guy who can step in and perform if Lamar goes down.

 

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