Dome Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 Just now, Yin-Yang said: The bubble butt is worth the $11M alone. I shouldn’t say I hate Peat. That’s not fair. his versatility to play LT at a serviceable level has saved us a few times. but if all goes according to plan and he’s a starter at G for 16 game’s he’s probably being overpaid and he’s always hurt, which is not ideal for a guy you’re paying more for because he’s a backup for another injury prone guy but saying I hate Peat isn’t fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 Just now, Dome said: I shouldn’t say I hate Peat. That’s not fair. his versatility to play LT at a serviceable level has saved us a few times. but if all goes according to plan and he’s a starter at G for 16 game’s he’s probably being overpaid and he’s always hurt, which is not ideal for a guy you’re paying more for because he’s a backup for another injury prone guy but saying I hate Peat isn’t fair. Mayock will take him. And it’s okay to hate players on your team for weird reasons. I despised the lard known as LeGarrette Blount, even when he went for 1100 yards and 18 TDs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: Mayock will take him. And it’s okay to hate players on your team for weird reasons. I despised the lard known as LeGarrette Blount, even when he went for 1100 yards and 18 TDs. I honestly don’t like Kamara all that much. He seems moody and mentally unreliable. Slippery AF though 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, Dome said: I honestly don’t like Kamara all that much. He seems moody and mentally unreliable. Slippery AF though Is he the best RB in the league tho? Dunno, been thinking of making a thread for it 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 7 hours ago, Dome said: Like I said, you've got the wrong guy. You're barking up the wrong tree. @Dome, my issue is here: On 5/9/2020 at 12:39 AM, MookieMonstah said: I mean it’s telling that the Saints couldn’t even get a conditional 7th for the guy. 22 hours ago, Dome said: I’ve agreed with mookies take since the beginning of the thread, yes. THIS is where I have issue. Pre draft, it's "Warford needs to take a pay cut, team needs to find Warford's replacement in a year - but hey, he's still one of the 24 starters on the roster" logic. Now, it's "if nobody was offering a 7th round pick, it's pretty telling" as if he's suddenly devalued by other franchises because of anything he did on the field. His "devaluation" has everything to do with the direction taken by the Saints in the draft - nothing more. Making an assumption that NOT trading him tells us anything about him is incredibly short-sighted, both by other examples of other players with value who were released without being traded over the years as well as initial views of Warford before his replacement plan was created. I like to think I've illustrated this as sufficiently as possible. If you don't agree, I fear we're at an impasse. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, ET80 said: @Dome, my issue is here: THIS is where I have issue. Pre draft, it's "Warford needs to take a pay cut, team needs to find Warford's replacement in a year - but hey, he's still one of the 24 starters on the roster" logic. Now, it's "if nobody was offering a 7th round pick, it's pretty telling" as if he's suddenly devalued by other franchises because of anything he did on the field. His "devaluation" has everything to do with the direction taken by the Saints in the draft - nothing more. Making an assumption that NOT trading him tells us anything about him is incredibly short-sighted, both by other examples of other players with value who were released without being traded over the years as well as initial views of Warford before his replacement plan was created. I like to think I've illustrated this as sufficiently as possible. If you don't agree, I fear we're at an impasse. I think you’re overstating the difference between wanting someone to take a paycut then disappear next year, compared to how you feel if they end up getting cut a year earlier than that. I don’t think those ideas are nearly as far apart as you do. Being content with a guy who wasn’t an a giant issue player isn’t the same as endorsing them. That said... I absolutely believe it’s telling nobody traded for him. Is it the end all be all that perfectly demonstrates everything you need to know about him? No, definitely not. But do I think a team would’ve traded a late pick for him if they viewed him as more than an OK player with some fairly major question marks? Yes, I do. Thats what the lack of trade tells me. That teams are ultimately OK missing out on Warford. That teams don’t necessarily view Warford as a guy who can come in and put them over the top. That teams don’t believe he’s a big enough upgrade to be worth giving up even a peanuts pick. If there was a team out there that had that kind of faith in Warford’s abilities they would’ve found a way to fit his $8.5m into their budget. People can make comps to Revis or Manning if they wish, but we all know the comps aren’t really all that similar. Trying to evoke names like Revis or Manning like their situations are comparable to Warford’s requires a significantly larger amount of mental gymnastics than assuming teams didn’t trade for him because they aren’t all that stoked on him. Cam Newton and Andy Dalton were better comps. Edited May 12, 2020 by Dome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 18 minutes ago, Dome said: Thats what the lack of trade tells me. Can you unequivocally tell me the Saints were shopping him? A lot of teams will release a vet vs cutting him to give them choice on who they sign with and for how much they sign for. It's a sign of respect to the player, it's something that can alleviate tension between the locker room and FO. (Tyrann Mathieu comes to mind on this, although I'm sure there are other examples). Can you definitively take that off the table? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 19 minutes ago, Dome said: I think you’re overstating the difference between wanting someone to take a paycut then disappear next year, compared to how you feel if they end up getting cut a year earlier than that. I don’t think those ideas are nearly as far apart as you do. Being content with a guy who wasn’t an a giant issue player isn’t the same as endorsing them. I think you are vastly underselling it. I agree there is some correlation, but not as much as you're trying to illustrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, ET80 said: Can you unequivocally tell me the Saints were shopping him? A lot of teams will release a vet vs cutting him to give them choice on who they sign with and for how much they sign for. Can you definitively take that off the table? Definitively not definitive... but a strong case with 3 points to back it up. 1) All 31 teams knew he was available. You’ve already pointed out that everyone knew he wasn’t going to be a Saint and that torpedoed his value. If any of those teams had good feeling about him being a key piece to their core, that would’ve been the time to bring him in for a 7th. Apparently he wasn’t on anyone’s radar at that time, at least not on their radar as a guy they were willing to part with a 7th for. 2) Sean Payton is petty as hell. He called a fullback he didn’t like during the mans wedding rehearsal to tell him he’d been cut. Sean Payton was incredibly pissed at Warford’s performance down the stretch last year, and anyone with eyes can see how abysmal he was in the playoffs. Payton isn’t doing anything for Warford out of respect right now. If he could’ve got a pick out of him he would have. 3) After the draft Sean Payton said Warford would compete for his job, exactly like the Panthers saying they still viewed Cam as a starter to drive up his trade value. Why would Payton say he’s going to have to compete for his job if his plan was to cut him outright for cap saving? It was a last ditch effort to pump up his value, just like the Panthers talking about Cam Newton. Edited May 12, 2020 by Dome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, ET80 said: I think you are vastly underselling it. I agree there is some correlation, but not as much as you're trying to illustrate. Youve never had a guy get cut or moved from the Texans and been like “that’s fine, he was whatever” even though you weren’t pounding the table that he be released or traded before that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 19 minutes ago, Dome said: Youve never had a guy get cut or moved from the Texans and been like “that’s fine, he was whatever” even though you weren’t pounding the table that he be released or traded before that? Nope. I'm pretty up front with that, I don't even entertain things such as restructures or other steps to keep guys on roster. If someone's gotta go, they gotta go. (I'm a Texans fan, so I have to be prepared for anyone getting moved at any time, for any reason - save for Watson, Watt, Cunningham and Tunsil, it's all fair game). 21 minutes ago, Dome said: Definitively not definitive... but a strong case with 3 points to back it up. 1) All 31 teams knew he was available. You’ve already pointed out that everyone knew he wasn’t going to be a Saint and that torpedoed his value. If any of those teams had good feeling about him being a key piece to their core, that would’ve been the time to bring him in for a 7th. Apparently he wasn’t on anyone’s radar at that time, at least not on their radar as a guy they were willing to part with a 7th for. 2) Sean Payton is petty as hell. He called a fullback he didn’t like during the mans wedding rehearsal to tell him he’d been cut. Sean Payton was incredibly pissed at Warford’s performance down the stretch last year, and anyone with eyes can see how abysmal he was in the playoffs. Payton isn’t doing anything for Warford out of respect right now. If he could’ve got a pick out of him he would have. 3) After the draft Sean Payton said Warford would compete for his job, exactly like the Panthers saying they still viewed Cam as a starter to drive up his trade value. Why would Payton say he’s going to have to compete for his job if his plan was to cut him outright for cap saving? It was a last ditch effort to pump up his value, just like the Panthers talking about Cam Newton. I can acknowledge #3, I don't know any better on #2, but I'll take your word for it - but we've covered #1, nobody had to do anything because everyone knew they'd get a shot at Warford without giving up a pick, and with the opportunity to get him at less than $8.5mm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, ET80 said: Nope. I'm pretty up front with that, I don't even entertain things such as restructures or other steps to keep guys on roster. If someone's gotta go, they gotta go. This reply doesn’t even make sense in relation to what I was asking. Never mind, this is not getting us anywhere, maybe I wasn’t clear with what I was asking. It’s not important. Quote I can acknowledge #3, I don't know any better on #2, but I'll take your word for it - but we've covered #1, nobody had to do anything because everyone knew they'd get a shot at Warford without giving up a pick, and with the opportunity to get him at less than $8.5mm. So I’m 2 for 3 without any more fight? I’ll take it... ”A shot at Warford” If teams felt he was a good player, $8.5m isn’t that much to pay him. He’s reportedly asking for $7m per year now. So a 7th round pick and maybe $1-3m is what teams weren’t willing to give up. That was the threshold where they decided “ok, he’s not worth that much, we can risk losing him if it means we’ll save that money” One team will get him, and people will say “See, told you he was wanted!” but they’ll ignore however other many teams missed out on him and are OK with that. Edited May 12, 2020 by Dome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 (edited) On 5/8/2020 at 1:43 PM, sdrawkcab321 said: Why? I get he’s going to be a FA after the year but don’t they need someone to block this year?? This team can draft and evaluate OL with the best of them. As stated, they drafted Ruiz in the first round so they shouldn't miss a beat. Jealous, not going to lie! Edited May 12, 2020 by J-ALL-DAY 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: This team can draft and evaluate OL with the best of them. As stated, they drafted Ruiz in the first round so they shouldn't miss a beat. Jealous, not going to lie! Nick Easton keeps his job as a backup to all 3 IOL spots as well, which I think gets overlooked. He started at G last year and looked pretty serviceable too, and before that looked like a serviceable (maybe, from what I remember Vikings fans saying) center in Minnesota. So if Ruiz doesn’t pan out as a Day 1 starter we’re not sitting here with a gaping hole on our line, we’ve got a guy with starting experience ready to step up if need be. Really happy with our line moving forward. Some young QB is going to step into an awesome situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Dome said: "A shot at Warford” If teams felt he was a good player, $8.5m isn’t that much to pay him. He’s reportedly asking for $7m per year now. So a 7th round pick and maybe $1-3m is what teams weren’t willing to give up. That was the threshold where they decided “ok, he’s not worth that much, we can risk losing him if it means we’ll save that money” You and I are thinking about the money part differently. Think about it like this - you're buying a car. You have $25,000 budgeted for this purchase. You walk into a dealership, see a car you like, a $30,000 car. Do you pay that price or negotiate down to your budget? If you can't negotiate the price down, do you go outside your budget or do you look for another alternative - look at a used model, or another vehicle or even stick it out in your current car? $8.5mm might seem reasonable for a G (and it is) but if I'm only allocating $6.5mm to that position, there's no reason I should overpay, even if it's a reasonable deal. It's still over my budget, and it would be irresponsible for me to pursue at that cost - especially when I know I can wait it out, offer a deal in line with budget and not lose any additional capital in the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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