List your order of general managers from best to worst.

[JAF-N72EX]

Go.

[WindyCity]

My Criteria

-Address the QB position

-Consistent playoff appearances

-Drafting above average, not flawless, but better than average.

 

Tier 1: GMs that have hit all 3 in my opinion.

Bill Belichek

Howie Roseman

Jon Schneider

Micky Loomis

Kevin Colbert

Eric DeCosta

Brett Veach

Tier 2: GMs that have hit on 2/3 in my opinion

John Elway

-Consistent winning [2 Super Bowls] and drafts well, QB work has been not great.

Jon Robinson

-Multiple playoff runs with wins, good drafts, saved the Mariota mess, but I do not count that as a long term solution.

Kris Speilman

-No long term QB.

Jerry Jones

-No consistent winning, but stole a QB and drafts well.

Thomas Dimitroff

-QB, consistently competitive, drafting has fallen off a bit

Brandon Beane

-Consistently competitive, good drafts, jury is way out on the QB.

John Lynch

-Solid QB, appears on the verge of consistent winning and outside of 2017 has drafted really well.

 

This is where I think Pace steps into the conversation, but I would put these guys over him still.

Chris Ballard

Tom Telesco

Ryan Pace

Duke Tobin

 

15th-17th

Edited May 16, 2020 by WindyCity

[WindyCity]

There are a few GMs that I am not sure how to rank as they have not been on the job very long or have not had to address the QB spot.

Guntekunst will be defined by Jordan Love.

Joe Douglas has not been around long enough.

Chris Grier just drafted his future and grade this year.

[dll2000]

I can’t even name more than 6-10 off top of my head, much less know all of their doings in depth.

A good answer would take days of research. 

But its an interesting question.

By what are you measuring it and what weight does each thing garner?

If it’s W’s and L’s as heaviest then its Belichick hands down.  Yet Belichick is often bad in talent acquisition and drafting.

If it’s drafting than that is easier, but if that isn’t translating to great teams overall then you have to downgrade that accomplishment some.

If it’s free agents same as drafting.

What about team profits and efficiency and management of operation and staff?  That matters to teams.

What about coaching selections? 

 

[dll2000]

Also how much is luck?  I mean Belichick took Brady at end of draft so that is a lot of luck, BUT he developed him and then had courage to go with him over a former number one overall pick who was basically a prototype of an NFL QB.   So its a combination of being a bad GM and an amazingly good coach. 

How many late round QBs get virtually ignored by coaches?  I mean everyone who is a QB in NFL looks pretty much same casually throwing a football in drills.  They all have good arms.  They all look great throwing routes.   How are you identifying if guys can play live?  How are you developing? 

Probably been a lot of GMs who drafted a mid to late round QB and we never heard from him again.  What if those guys were with Belichick who clearly has a better system to developing QBs lower on depth chart than other NFL teams?

But it is also on GM to pick coach.  So part of that is his fault if his talent isn’t being developed.  But how many GMs will tell a coach he doesn’t like the way they set up practice?  To do it different?  How many know a better way?  

How many are in their dark little rooms just watching college and other teams tape for player talent and that’s about it?  We don’t really know a lot of information about how different guys do things to properly answer the question.

 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by dll2000

[WindyCity]

3 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Also how much is luck?  I mean Belichick took Brady at end of draft so that is a lot of luck, BUT he developed him and then had courage to go with him over a former number one overall pick who was basically a prototype of an NFL QB.   So its a combination of being a bad GM and an amazingly good coach. 

How many late round QBs get virtually ignored by coaches?  I mean everyone who is a QB in NFL looks pretty much same casually throwing a football in drills.  They all have good arms.  They all look great throwing routes.   How are you identifying if guys can play live?  How are you developing? 

Probably been a lot of GMs who drafted a mid to late round QB and we never heard from him again.  What if those guys were with Belichick who clearly has a better system to developing QBs lower on depth chart than other NFL teams?

But it is also on GM to pick coach.  So part of that is his fault if his talent isn’t being developed.  But how many GMs will tell a coach he doesn’t like the way they set up practice?  To do it different?  How many know a better way?  

How many are in their dark little rooms just watching college and other teams tape for player talent and that’s about it?  We don’t really know a lot of information about how different guys do things to properly answer the question.

 

 

 

Luck does factor into a lot of it.

Imagine if the Brown or 49ers had picked Trubisky, the Bears would have fallen into Mahomes.

[DABEARSLCF04]

Everyone knows Phil Emrey is #1

[Madmike90]

2 minutes ago, DABEARSLCF04 said:

Everyone knows Phil Emrey is #1

The shocking thing is Emery still has a job 😂

[dll2000]

7 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Luck does factor into a lot of it.

Imagine if the Brown or 49ers had picked Trubisky, the Bears would have fallen into Mahomes.

Maybe.  And maybe they just skip QB and wait until 2018.  

Also 49ers fell into Jimmy G from a pissed off Belichick, so they didn’t have to expend a ton of draft capital on a QB.  Then QB got hurt so they got yet another top pick who turned into one best players in league out of the gate.  

I mean people laugh and praise 49ers that they shafted Bears and Bears drafted a bust, but they drafted Solomon Thomas who turned into a bust.  And they also passed on Mahomes which no one bashes them for.  But they then got Bosa the next year who put them over the top and that is probably why they get a pass.    

49ers looking like great GMing, but they have had a ton of luck and super high draft picks from a lot of terrible seasons.  

Edited May 16, 2020 by dll2000

[WindyCity]

1 minute ago, dll2000 said:

Maybe.  And maybe they just skip QB and wait until 2018.  

Also 49ers fell into Jimmy G from a pissed off Belichick, so they didn’t have to expend a ton of draft capital on a QB.  Then QB got hurt so they got yet another top pick who turned into one best players in league out of the gate.  

I mean people laugh and praise 49ers that they shafted Bears and Bears drafted a bust, but they drafted Solomon Thomas who turned into a bust.  And they also passed on Mahomes which no one bashes them for.  But they then got Bosa the next year who put them over the top and that is probably why they get a pass.    

49ers looking like great GMing, but they have had a ton of luck and super high draft picks from a lot of terrible seasons.  

I am saying the draft is determined about who gets picked a head of you,

There is obvious luck in involved, especially the later you get in the draft. 

[WindyCity]

2 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

The shocking thing is Emery still has a job 😂

He was an absolute trainwreck.

Somehow he drafted 2 guys who have been All Pros in their careers, which I think is a strong argument for luck.

[dll2000]

8 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Luck does factor into a lot of it.

Imagine if the Brown or 49ers had picked Trubisky, the Bears would have fallen into Mahomes.

Also entirely possible, in alternate Universe, had Browns or even Bears took Mahomes he turns into a bust and everyone is laughing about the Mahomes pick.

I mean by a lot of reports Mahomes was really bad early and a light bulb came on about the end of his 2nd training camp.  

[WindyCity]

1 minute ago, dll2000 said:

Also entirely possible, in alternate Universe, had Browns or even Bears took Mahomes he turns into a bust and everyone is laughing about the Mahomes pick.

I mean by a lot of reports Mahomes was really bad early and a light bulb came on about the end of his 2nd training camp.  

I think his incredible talent could have survived the Bears organization QB incompetence.

[dll2000]

7 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

I think his incredible talent could have survived the Bears organization QB incompetence.

Probably true, but we’ll never know. 

He would have spent first year with Fox backing up Glennon and getting virtually no practice reps until Glennon gets hurt into the season.  Then it would be all hand offs.

2nd year would have been really his first year overall and first year in Reid/Nagy system, there is no Reid there along with a gaggle of Reid trained under coaches to help, its just Nagy and a bunch of new guys he also has to teach offense to.   Also, I think it is pretty fair to say that Nagy is not as good as Reid anyway.

He probably starts out really bad.  A lot of people wanted to say, I told ya so about Leech system guys, so he would be getting bashed constantly by certain members of media and with a bad start many would jump on that bandwagon.

Who knows what happens from there? 

I think he succeeds regardless.  But we’ll never know for sure.  Situations matter. 

Edited May 16, 2020 by dll2000

[WindyCity]

1 minute ago, dll2000 said:

Probably true, but we’ll never know. 

He would have spent first year with Fox backing up Glennon and getting virtually no practice reps until Glennon gets hurt into the season.  Then it would be all hand offs.

2nd year would have been really his first year overall and first year in Reid/Nagy system, there is no Reid there along with a gaggle of Reid trained under coaches to help, its just Nagy and a bunch of new guys he also has to teach offense to.   Also, I think it is pretty fair to say that Nagy is not as good as Reid anyway.

He probably starts out really bad.  A lot of people wanted to say, I told ya so about Leech system guys, so he would be getting bashed constantly by certain members of media and with a bad start many would jump on that bandwagon.

Who knows what happens from there? 

I think he succeeds regardless.  But we’ll never know for sure.  Situations matter. 

That is a very nice breakdown of Pace's failure of a development plan for a QB.