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naptownskinsfan

Rivera: It takes 3-5 years to build a culture

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4 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

Is Snyder going to be patient enough to see this through?  

Yes, recent history says yes and Joe Gibbs will tell Snyder he needs to give Ron 5 years to change the culture where we look like a perennial playoff team.

Let's not forget, Shanahan got 4 years & bc he didn't protect his star rookie QB and took a D that was top 10 for 5 of the previous 6 years before he became HC, switched schemes, didn't invest enough in the D and turned it into one of the worst D’s in the NFL this past decade, he was fired after 4 years and didn't get a 5th.

Bruce Allen got a decade to try to help Shanahan and then Jay build a perennial winner last decade.

Jay got 6 years to do so.

So yeah, I think Ron gets his entire contract.

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Ron gets his entire contract. That goes without saying. I mean unless he goes winless in 5 seasons and the lockerroom is in mutiny, the guy is getting all 5 years.

Now, to the subject. 3-5 years to change a culture? 

As someone who has done it before in business, it can be done quicker. But in sports, this sounds about right.

You break it down

Year 1 - you're new. Most of them aren't. They are used to the old way. You will get some people buying in. And some that won't. You will see some people excelling in your system where they didn't before. And vice versa. This is the separating the wheat from the chaff period. In the meantime, the battle rhythm is set (as are changes) in terms of the organization, command structure, communications, mission statement (*), etc... This is the "Storming" period.

Don't expect a ton of wins in year 1 but if you can get them and strike lighting in a bottle, then that's good. But it's also good to suck this year and then get a high draft pick.

Year 2 - You've separated as many of the people who were either going to be a problem or not perform well under your new system. Now you can focus on "Norming". You'll now have two rookie classes and two free agent classes that have taken root in your team and only know your system in Washington. As such, something that was "new" in Year 1, is now the "norm" and is "expected". 

Here's where I'm expecting at LEAST 7-9 in terms of the record.

Year 3 - Our "Performing" period. 3 rookie classes. 3 Free Agencies. You are now in Year 3 and should have completely overhauled not only the roster but pretty much everyone in Redskins Park who does not have an eye on the mission statement (*). By now, your system is the only system the team has either had or the veterans that are still here are now used to running it via muscle memory.

I expect not less than 8-8 this season.

Years 4-5 -  is year 3 but better. These are where you see the team make leaps in bounds in terms of starting strong and finishing strong. Dominating other teams. I expect 9-7 in these years would be looked on as failure.

 

(*) EVERYWHERE I take over, if we do not have a mission statement, I quickly find out what the contract says we're supposed to do and I make one up. 

Now, I KNOW that you guys have heard about them and are probably rolling your eyes. But I swear they work. I took over on a contract once where IBM/Deloitte lost the contract. I was running that task order along with a number of others. And we won the work. I was familiar with the work and the client and so I knew why the incumbent lost the re-bid. It's because they lost sight of what they were there to do. 

So I quickly devised a mission statement and wrote it on the whiteboard in the team room. I then had each member repeat it to me. I told them that I would be asking them in a week what the mission statement was. So next week when I was in the office, I flipped the whiteboard over to hide it. And then proceeded to ask them all in the meeting what it was. And even if they got one word wrong in the mission statement, I considered them getting it wrong. The ones who got it right? I took them to a nice lunch.

Thereafter, if I was in a meeting...even if we were talking about something else, I would randomly ask the question out of the blue. "Hey, Tyler (or whomever I wanted to call on), what is our mission statement?"

They'd have to repeat it back to me...word for word. If they got it right? I bought lunch. Got it wrong? They had to live with the embarrassment. They started getting smart and printing it out at their desks and pinning it to their cubicle walls. Or printing it out and taping it to the underside of their badge holders.  I didn't mind them "cheating" because they were adapting and making sure they got it right.

Why did I do this pedantic thing (and yes it is VERY pedantic)? Because I wanted them to realize that EVERYTHING they did had an ultimately singular purpose. And EVERYTHING they did contributed to that purpose. So if they were doing anything that was not contributing to that purpose, then they needed to stop doing it and then, if they couldn't figure out how to proceed (**), ask their Project Manager (or me) for direction.

The result for that contract was that in 2 years, my company won the re-bid (first incumbent ever to do that with that agency) and continued for another 7 years winning re-bid after re-bid (I left them last year to take a more Executive position elsewhere). Because we never lost sight of the goal

 

(**) another thing I preach is ownership of your work. I treat everyone like they are managers. They are managers of their work/work-streams. They are professionals and I treat them as such. So up to a certain point, I encourage them making decisions. I lay out how far they can go in that realm of decision making (just can't speak for the company at a contract level - that's me), but if they want to yell "stop" and make sure things get stopped because they see a problem? I'm all for it. 

Anyway...back to Redskins...the team needs this. The Mission is to win the Super Bowl. Anything...and I do mean ANYTHING, that does not line up with that mission, needs to stop. Or leave town.

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@Thaiphoon Positive reinforcement. It almost always works better than negative reinforcement. Taking them to lunch if they were able to repeat the mission statement was a great idea.

Not exactly the same thing, but the best way to potty train a puppy is positive reinforcement. If they go to the bathroom in the house tell them no, but then show them where to go. Put a string and a bell on the door go outside, teach them to ring it, they will bc it’s fun and makes a noise. Give them a treat when they ring it. When they go to the bathroom outside, give them a treat when they come in. Then, combine the two. I trained two dogs this way, learned it from my best friend who spent $ going to dog training school for his puppy a decade ago. 
 

Also, you want to teach a dog tricks, do the same thing. When they do the trick, give them a treat and they’ll learn to do it faster.

Edited by turtle28

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@Thaiphoon great post and I agree with it.  

We had a bit of a culture crisis- in general, we found that people had a good working knowledge of the company's mission and goals, but there wasn't consistent verbiage to go along with it. We had a group of graduate students from the Naval Academy come and assess things (one of them was a sponsor-student of the owner) so we trusted them to come in and help us with that.  

We immediately came up with a business card bi-fold that has the mission and values of the organization on it, and it is given to each team member when they are hired and onboarded.  We also started doing orientations the same across all of the locations and enforced our leaders to use that card during all of their meetings with the team.  Now it is so ingrained that the leaders don't need that card, and every time we talk about the mission and values, they've got it.  

We absolutely worked some people out during that time, too.  But the increased talent we attracted, and the positive energy coming from the team, made it all worth it. 

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I can understand this first year being a bad year, but after that I expect wins.

I expect 8 wins or more by year 2 and playoffs by year 3.  You guys and your low expectations kill me.  This is the nfl.  Teams go from crap to playoffs every year.  We don't have 5 years to wait.  Win!  

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2 hours ago, offbyone said:

I can understand this first year being a bad year, but after that I expect wins.

I expect 8 wins or more by year 2 and playoffs by year 3.  You guys and your low expectations kill me.  This is the nfl.  Teams go from crap to playoffs every year.  We don't have 5 years to wait.  Win!  

I think you are severely underestimating how bad this roster is, after the neglect it went through under Bruce Allen and his career .357 winning percentage.  On top of the very real application of installing a new culture, one which is a complete 180 from the previous one.  We are going to 100% accountability from probably 25% with Club Jay.  

To do this right is going to take a very long time. 

Other teams who have turned things around quickly have a much better roster to work with, and don't have to make the changes that we have to make. 

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11 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

I think you are severely underestimating how bad this roster is, after the neglect it went through under Bruce Allen and his career .357 winning percentage.  On top of the very real application of installing a new culture, one which is a complete 180 from the previous one.  We are going to 100% accountability from probably 25% with Club Jay.  

To do this right is going to take a very long time. 

Other teams who have turned things around quickly have a much better roster to work with, and don't have to make the changes that we have to make. 

Not sure I agree that our roster is really bad. Unproven doesn’t necessarily mean  bad. Young and talented w/ potential doesn’t mean we have a bad roster. Ron came here because he liked the young talent that had been acquired - mostly by Kyle - through the draft the previous 3 years and he liked that he’d have the #2 pick in the draft and probably be able to draft and build his defense around Chase Young and a lot of other good young talented on the DL which again, he was inheriting.
 

Let's not forget, after being down in the first quarter vs Ron’s Panthers late last season, this young roster - before it added Chase Young - outplayed his Panthers for the next 3 quarters. Ron witnessed that first hand and liked what he saw out of our young roster.

1. We have a question mark at QB but only bc we have a young developing QB - who’s technically still a rookie in terms of games played - but a lot of the league has that same question w/ their young QBs who haven’t started or only have for a few years and have had ups and downs.

2. We have great depth at RB. A Hall of Fame RB who surprisingly shows no signs of slowing down in his mid 30s. We have two RBs behind him that have first round talent but have been injured, admiditly a question mark bc of that but when healthy, Guice & Love are studs. I can’t imagine both of them being injured  all year this year. We added a younger  version of CT in McKissic for 3rd downs. Then, we have a Swiss Army knife in our rookie Gibson who looks like a guy who when you get him the ball in space - whether as a RB or receiver - can take it to the house any touch like Terry, Sims Jr or a healthy Love.

3. We definitely have a question mark at LT but outside of that our OL is on par with most teams.

4. TE - admittedly major question marks. We’re all just hoping one of which, Rogers, Thomas, Moss, Hentges or Sprinkle can be a serviceable starter this year. I think one of them will emerge to be at least avg. Yes, we want more but no roster is ever perfect especially when you lose two great pass receiving TEs in one offseason (Reed & Davis).

5. Our WR corps is very young but it does have potential. Terry looked like a #1 last year. Sims Jr looked like a great  slot slot WR the second half of last year and Harmon looks like a reliable possession WR who made & can make tough catches in traffic, he proved that potential. AGG, Cam Sims, Quinn and the UDFA’s all have potential, we just haven’t seen it in the NFL yet - and from Quinn we’ve seen potential but not consistently. Terry, Sims & Harmon are not an awful top 3 WR corps. 

6. Our DL’s potential is the best in the NFL.

7. Our LB corps is admitidly a lot like TE & LT. We have major questions. We have 2 vets who are likely two of our starters to start the year at MLB & SLB (Bostic & TDavis). Davis is definitely past his prime but he can be serviceable at the worst as a SLB and he can be a great mentor for our young LBs. SDH has looked like a starter at either MLB or WLB the last two years - when he’s gotten snaps - Manusky just wanted to play other guys. I’ve said it for two years, SDH should be starting, or at least be playing most of the nickel snaps at WILB/WLB/dime LB. We have Holcomb who has a lot of talent too but needs to improve in taking on & shedding blocks & in coverage, but he was just a rookie so, presumably he can improve. We then have Foster who has All-Pro talent but yes, injures are a major question mark but maybe he proves it, if he does & plays WLB at a high level, our LB corps could be good. We have Anderson who if he can improve some in coverage with help from TDavis, Rivera, DelRio & Mills, can possibly develop into a good starting SLB for next year. Then, we have JHC & Hudson who have potential to be developed into better linebackers by Rivera, DelRio & Mills.

8. We have talent at corner. Our top 3 are on par with most of the league. We don’t have a definite #1 but our top 3 all are #2 types. It’s true, Darby & Moreau need to stay healthy though. Moreland and Stroman have potential to be top 3 corners on our team or another team someday too, and may continue to prove it again this year.

9. At safety we have an All-Pro caliber SS and a FS coming off an injury but he was starting to prove he was the answer at FS in Pitt but he got injured last year. He’s really athletic and has potential to develop into a good FS but needs more development. We have decent depth behind them with Everette and Apke.

I’m not trying to say this roster is going to compete for the playoffs or the division but it’s young with potential and could produce an average season this year w/ 6-8 wins.

Edited by turtle28

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@turtle28 I respect your viewpoints, but I just think you are viewing the roster through very "burgundy and gold" colored glasses, when instead it's actually a very "maroon and black" roster.  

QB- I agree with your take.  

RB- We have good depth right now, but we certainly aren't keeping everybody.  Someone is going to be the odd man out.  This unit I would rank "above average" 

WR- Our top 3 might not be awful, but they are close to the bottom of the NFL.  Below average unit.  

TE- Might be the worst unit in the NFL currently.  And I've also defended them to not overspend/overdraft this position this year too, but you can't dress up a turd.  

OL- LT is a big hole still until someone steps up.  We have a competition at LG between a draft pick and a guy who couldn't hold down a starting job.  Our center is slightly above average, our RG is pretty damn good but can't stay healthy and our RT is solidly average.  So all in all, the unit as a whole is a smidge below average. 

DL- the strength of the team, no one would disagree.  Maybe one of the best units in the NFL.  

LB- Maybe not as bad as TE, but this unit is pretty close.  Definitely below average.  

CB- This is a push to average.  I don't disagree very much with your take on this, but our highest paid (and best) corner right now is a slot guy.  

S- Collins is a very good box safety.  Davis struggles with injury and that is why he is behind in development.  Shaky depth behind Davis too, because Apke falls into the behind in development category as well.  I'd say like OL, this is slightly below average.  

So we have one unit that is elite (DL), one unit that is above average (RB) and one unit that ranks average (CB).  The rest are slightly below average to near the bottom of the NFL.  

Five wins max.  Chances are we are picking 1-2 again.  Picking in the top five is an absolutely surefire prediction.  I'd love to be wrong.  

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@naptownskinsfan Honestly, what you wrote and what I wrote isn't that different. It's semantics. I'm saying we have these young guys developing, trying to prove themselves and that could be a good thing, if not this year, then in a year or two.

For one, if you think our top 5 RBs are average what's a good one? Do we need to have an All-Po and a pro bowler backing them up for it to be a good backfield?

You’re saying our roster is awful on paper for this season. Paper is never reality. In years past our roster has looked better on paper bc of overpaid vets and underperformed.

For once, we have an extremely young roster with potential that may overperform on the field. This forum has been asking for this for over a decade. And personally, I find it very frustrating that those who have been calling for this kind of roster for over a decade are now complaining about it.

Edited by turtle28

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13 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

I think you are severely underestimating how bad this roster is, after the neglect it went through under Bruce Allen and his career .357 winning percentage.  On top of the very real application of installing a new culture, one which is a complete 180 from the previous one.  We are going to 100% accountability from probably 25% with Club Jay.  

To do this right is going to take a very long time. 

Other teams who have turned things around quickly have a much better roster to work with, and don't have to make the changes that we have to make. 

I don't think our roster is bad at all.  We have a lot of question marks and some unproven talent but not much in terms of outright bad units. 

Other than a handful of teams, the majority of NFL teams have weak spots on the roster.  You can't expect above average talent from top to bottom.  We can't keep using our roster as an excuse for not winning.  I feel like we have been talking about remaking our roster for a decade now.  In that time it has remade itself a couple times since every several years the majority of the roster turns over naturally.  This is the nfl.  The roster is always turning over.  Rivera apparently thinks our roster is pretty good or he would have spent money in free agency.  

 

 

 

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Just now, offbyone said:

I don't think our roster is bad at all.  We have a lot of question marks and some unproven talent but not much in terms of outright bad units. 

Other than a handful of teams, the majority of NFL teams have weak spots on the roster.  You can't expect above average talent from top to bottom.  We can't keep using our roster as an excuse for not winning.  I feel like we have been talking about remaking our roster for a decade now.  In that time it has remade itself a couple times since every several years the majority of the roster turns over naturally.  This is the nfl.  The roster is always turning over.  Rivera apparently thinks our roster is pretty good or he would have spent money in free agency.  

 

 

 

For the past decade, our winning percentage is .357.  The rosters have always been bad except for a couple of years.  

Rivera has a free pass this year to start installing the culture.  You start with this group, and you weed out the guys who aren't with the program.  In two years, I bet half of this roster will be gone.  By year 3, we are probably looking at .500 or greater.  

There is a lot of work to be done and many people are underestimating how long it's going to take.  

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39 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

@naptownskinsfan Honestly, what you wrote and what I wrote isn't that different. It's semantics. I'm saying we have these young guys developing, trying to prove themselves and that could be a good thing, if not this year, then in a year or two.

For one, if you think our top 5 RBs are average what's a good one? Do we need to have an All-Po and a pro bowler backing them up for it to be a good backfield?

You’re saying our roster is awful on paper for this season. Paper is never reality. In years past our roster has looked better on paper bc of overpaid vets and underperformed.

For once, we have an extremely young roster with potential that may overperform on the field. This forum has been asking for this for over a decade. And personally, I find it very frustrating that those who have been calling for this kind of roster for over a decade are now complaining about it.

I said our running backs as a group are above average.  

True, paper isn't a reality, but this is year one of a badly needed culture reset and rebuild.  It's going to be ugly, and a lot of the guys along for the ride Week 1 this year may not be around in Year 3..  But we're going to come out on the other side better for it.

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