Final Play - Texans v Pats

[Apollo Stallion]

Can we just sticky this.  Game on the line.  Kareem Jackson lazy shuffle step - eyes in wrong zone - lets Cooks run right past him into end zone in prevent.  I could post the other 5 painful times the Texans secondary got destroyed, but they are all versions of the same thing. 

Common themes:

1) Kareem Jackson - lazy, slow, stupid. Making same mistakes in coverage he was 8 years ago.  Is effective in the slot/short-zone and run support, but the second he is isolated in man coverage or cover deep routes he is toast and EVERY OC knows it.

2) Corey Moore - lacks the speed, range, cover skills to be anything more than an in the box safety/special teamer, yet we actually made him a starting safety on purpose. There is no planet in which it makes any sense EVER to have Corey Moore as deep safety and Brady/Cooks destroyed him for 44 yarder early and winning TD late.

Coaching can only get you so far. Johnthan Davis was out there covering #1 & #2 WRs against the G.O.A.T. with 3 practices.  Johnathan Joseph can't cover both Hogan and Cooks at the same time. Hal didn't pick up Hogan and he got an ez TD.  Davis/Moore couldn't cover him and Cooks burned us for a bomb.  Kareem/Moore couldn't cover Cooks and he won the game.  Much like the offensive line, there is no possible way a competent personnel man could not see how removing a few critical cogs would cause these units to collapse and not understand that along with QB (which he bungled in historic fashion last year) the two units that will tank a season are the o-line and secondary. 

Sorry - meant to post in Pats thread.  Titans passing offense ain't exactly the Pats, so I don't expect a full on roasting, but then again KJ25 got fooled by an Alex Erickson move vs. Bengals sooo...(AS)

I'm actually going to split this into a new topic - it's a great Xs and Os conversation, and deserves it's own arena to talk about.

- ET

 

[OzzyTexan]

27 minutes ago, Apollo Stallion said:

Can we just sticky this.  Game on the line.  Kareem Jackson lazy shuffle step - eyes in wrong zone - lets Cooks run right past him into end zone in prevent.  I could post the other 5 painful times the Texans secondary got destroyed, but they are all versions of the same thing. 

 

 

Looks like cover 2. Kareem does his job just fine he can't chase the go route or the RB is wide open for a first down and get out of bounds to stop the clock. This play isn't on Kareem at all... Corey Moore has good position and makes a good break on the ball but instead of just pushing him out of bounds attacks the ball and misses. 

[ET80]

 

54 minutes ago, OzzyTexan said:

Looks like cover 2. Kareem does his job just fine he can't chase the go route or the RB is wide open for a first down and get out of bounds to stop the clock. This play isn't on Kareem at all... Corey Moore has good position and makes a good break on the ball but instead of just pushing him out of bounds attacks the ball and misses. 

After watching it again, yeah. The four "first level" DBs were holding a zone across the 10 along with the LB as the middle 5th guy (Jonathan Joseph on the far side let Chris Hogan go the same way Kareem let Cooks go, but Andre Hal quickly filled the gap). Corey Moore simply did not get there, and came with the same intensity I do when I tackle my kids in a wrestling match.

Kareem has his issues, but that play wasn't on him.

[Apollo Stallion]

Nope.  Prevent - as in keep the play in front of you - nothing beats you deep - game on the line - only a TD can beat you. Gilchrist and Pleasant are there to cover short/middle zones, Moore and Hal deep middle, Joseph and Jackson have the boundaries.  Only two CORNER-backs are on the field and go routes from Hogan and Cooks outside are their responsibilities. Pats flooded zones all day and KJ and JJ are paid to be the ones to know what to do and stick with the primary threat, not the scrub safeties.  Joseph is 50 yards away on the opposite sideline and breaks on the ball faster than Jackson who knows he's been fooled (again) and flat gives up.  Making it even worse is that Cooks bobbled the catch and the slightest contact even late could have affected him completing the catch.  2 point conversion on the next play Jackson gave up again, not even putting up a token effort on Cooks. Y

Yes, Moore is 100% the weakEST link as he is too slow to be anywhere outside the box and was late getting over when Cooks burned them for 40 yards earlier, but that is exactly why Jackson can't be shuffle stepping (a move that gets you benched in HIGH SCHOOL football) while one of the fastest receivers in the NFL runs past you to the pylon.  Understand, the reason we even play so much zone this year is because unlike last year where we could play Cover 1 with JJ and AJ hanging with #1/#2 WRs and funneling inside for safety help, Kareem Jackson is so prone to getting destroyed deep on the outside we spend most of the time in Cover 4.   Jackson is such a coverage liability he even screws up plays he's not involved with as the safeties are so accustomed to doubling down into Jackson's zone they cheat out of their own which contributed to the Hogan clusterfrack.  Bad slow safety breaking discipline to help out lazy undisciplined CB and you have exactly my point.  AJ Bouye's ability to cover man to man let the secondary operate it's peak with Demps getting opportunistic picks and Hal helping shut down opposing #1's.  Kareem is so bad outside, we had scrub Johnthan Banks out there despite being with us for all of 3 practices while Kareem was inside covering slow old fart Amedola.

Been watching this idiot drift between being the human first/last/only career day for teams 4th/5th option on offense to leading the league in penalty yards back to getting torched and the only thing that is more maddening is that people see him make a few big hits on RBs or blitz the QB and think he's a solid player while ignoring the fact he's a cornerback that can't cover WIDE receivers. So done with players on this team who continue to be relied upon despite not being able to execute basic levels of the job description, like offensive lineman who can't pass protect or receivers who can't run the damn route tree.  QBs who throw pick sixes and RBs who fumble get run out of town - we must stop tolerating the positional equivalents because they are no less debilitating.    

[OzzyTexan]

4 hours ago, Apollo Stallion said:

Nope.  Prevent - as in keep the play in front of you - nothing beats you deep - game on the line - only a TD can beat you. Gilchrist and Pleasant are there to cover short/middle zones, Moore and Hal deep middle, Joseph and Jackson have the boundaries.  Only two CORNER-backs are on the field and go routes from Hogan and Cooks outside are their responsibilities. Pats flooded zones all day and KJ and JJ are paid to be the ones to know what to do and stick with the primary threat, not the scrub safeties.  Joseph is 50 yards away on the opposite sideline and breaks on the ball faster than Jackson who knows he's been fooled (again) and flat gives up.  Making it even worse is that Cooks bobbled the catch and the slightest contact even late could have affected him completing the catch.  2 point conversion on the next play Jackson gave up again, not even putting up a token effort on Cooks. Y

Yes, Moore is 100% the weakEST link as he is too slow to be anywhere outside the box and was late getting over when Cooks burned them for 40 yards earlier, but that is exactly why Jackson can't be shuffle stepping (a move that gets you benched in HIGH SCHOOL football) while one of the fastest receivers in the NFL runs past you to the pylon.  Understand, the reason we even play so much zone this year is because unlike last year where we could play Cover 1 with JJ and AJ hanging with #1/#2 WRs and funneling inside for safety help, Kareem Jackson is so prone to getting destroyed deep on the outside we spend most of the time in Cover 4.   Jackson is such a coverage liability he even screws up plays he's not involved with as the safeties are so accustomed to doubling down into Jackson's zone they cheat out of their own which contributed to the Hogan clusterfrack.  Bad slow safety breaking discipline to help out lazy undisciplined CB and you have exactly my point.  AJ Bouye's ability to cover man to man let the secondary operate it's peak with Demps getting opportunistic picks and Hal helping shut down opposing #1's.  Kareem is so bad outside, we had scrub Johnthan Banks out there despite being with us for all of 3 practices while Kareem was inside covering slow old fart Amedola.

Been watching this idiot drift between being the human first/last/only career day for teams 4th/5th option on offense to leading the league in penalty yards back to getting torched and the only thing that is more maddening is that people see him make a few big hits on RBs or blitz the QB and think he's a solid player while ignoring the fact he's a cornerback that can't cover WIDE receivers. So done with players on this team who continue to be relied upon despite not being able to execute basic levels of the job description, like offensive lineman who can't pass protect or receivers who can't run the damn route tree.  QBs who throw pick sixes and RBs who fumble get run out of town - we must stop tolerating the positional equivalents because they are no less debilitating.    

I think your assuming prevent because they needed a touchdown to win. The clip is telling a different story. I think generally you only run prevent for hail mary's at the end of half or game.... I agree with some of what you said about Kareem and I think the texans also realize his struggles on the outside. They don't want him on the outside covering number one receivers either because as you mention he has proven he cannot do it. Thats why we see him more in the slot. Whats the one thing he does quite well for a corner? tackle and thats why they got him in the slot where he can help in run fits or blitz of the edge. He also gets burnt by quick guys in the slot and thats why I think he is better suited as a safety but with our current CB depth he will be staying there. There are worse corners in this league and thats why the texans have kept him around... As for Corey Moore I have not seen his speed being a big problem for him. Sometimes you see him take bad angles and he seems prone to 'almost plays.' He is still a young player who has exceeded expectations as an undrafted rookie. And last season was the starting safety for the number 1 defense in the league. Neither Moore or Hal played well last week.

[ET80]

6 hours ago, Apollo Stallion said:

Nope.  Prevent - as in keep the play in front of you - nothing beats you deep - game on the line - only a TD can beat you.

Given the location of the ball, time left on clock and personnel, I can confidently state that was not a prevent look (DeAndre Hopkins is on the prevent team as the middle safety/jump man - much like how Gronk was on the field for our final attempt).

If that was a prevent look - then Vrabel and RAC are the issue, and need to be fired immediately. Beyond the Hopkins part, calling prevent within your own 50 with more than 10 seconds on the clock against an offense that is famous for the "option routes" were trying so desperately to emulate, a prevent call in THAT situation is basically giving the game up. If that was prevent, and Kareem DOES drop, then the slot on the seam (Amendola) breaks his route, Brady completes the pass, Amendola takes it out of bounds at the 10 with a good 15-20 seconds left. 

You do not, do not, do not call prevent on that side of the 50 with double digit seconds on the clock. That's not even a HS coach mistake, that's a YMCA rec league coach mistake.

[ET80]

The more I watch it, the more I see what Kareem's assignment was - he was "hi/lo" on coverage, and isn't going to break - part to make sure Amendola doesn't break his route to the sideline for completion + out of bounds, part to keep James White in bounds if Brady checks down. 

Joseph had identical responsibility on the other side, checking Hogan on the deep route, and watching Gronk on both the Amendola and White type routes (because Gronk is the one threat that can't really be schemed against - even if he shows block on the snap, he can still beat the defense anywhere on the field). 

Corey Moore lacked killer instinct on the play - he needs to assume that his teammates will pay whatever fine he'll gets, and obliterate Cooks once he has the play in his sights.

[jch1911]

(1) Should not have been in this situation if Moore makes the pick prior (but DB hands vs. WR hands... so meh)

(2) It looked like a panic / younger player mistake by Moore. If he sees Cooks in the air and sees the ball, he can simply wait for the ball to arrive and use the boundary as another defender  (push Cooks OB).  I think his base instinct of "go for the ball" kicked it rather than playing the situation wisely.  That being said, I am not sure (outside of Joseph) any of our other DBs wouldn't have done the same thing.

[Pastor Dillon]

I think the coverage wasnt terrible. Moore was just a 1/2 foot from making a huge play. thats a simple case of the best QB to ever play the game putting the ball in the perfect spot. We simply got beat on that play, we didnt lose on that play.