Training Camp Battles

[Deadpulse]

 

Damien is taking advantage of no Sony and no Lamar

 

Byrd is capitalizing on his experience catching balls from Cam

[Deadpulse]

https://www.clnsmedia.com/lazars-patriots-camp-notebook-dugger-asiasi-and-harris-off-to-great-starts-at-pats-camp/

Some solid hits from camp:

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New England’s quarterback competition remains a dead-heat in terms of reps, but my sense after watching two practices is that the Pats find themselves in an interesting conundrum. 

On the one hand, Jarrett Stidham and Brian Hoyer have a much better feel for the base passing concepts and timing of the offense than Cam Newton. But on the other hand, we’ve seen Pats skill players struggle against the league’s best secondary at times, and the offense might need Newton’s mobility as a playmaking weapon to open things up. 

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Stidham finished practice strong after a rough start. He threw three interceptions, two on passes intended for Damiere Byrd, and one for Devin Ross.

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s for Newton, it’s great to see him bring energy every practice even though he’s in a competition. His ball is coming out with plenty of zip, and physically, he looks good. But he’s still holding onto the ball and looks like someone that’s slowing down his process because he’s mentally trying to grasp the offense.

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We are still waiting to see N’Keal Harry pop on the practice field. He looks leaner, and his feet are moving quicker. Plus, he’s much more violent in his releases at the line and fought through contact on a deep curl nicely to make a catch on JC Jackson. However, the explosive plays through the air aren’t there yet. He’s still struggling to run away from the Pats starting secondary and hasn’t gotten the chance to make contested grabs down the field.

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Damien Harris continues to stack good days together and might be New England’s best skill player through two days. 

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Start the training camp hype train for rookie tight end Devin Asiasi. He’s heavily involved in practice, caught a few balls up the seam on Tuesday and one crosser over the middle, and was greeted by the entire tight end group including coach Nick Caley for a great pass set on a max protect play-action drop-back. Asiasi is doing it all, quickly, and the quarterbacks are loving targeting him between the numbers.

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Deatrich Wise got some run today as an edge setter in New England’s base defense, and he even got some love from Bill Belichick on an excellent run stop. If he can continue to stack plays like that together, he’ll be in the mix for early-down work in the defensive line rotation. 

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Josh Uche continues to be heavily involved and is rotating through the various linebacker spots. He made a nice play to shoot the gap and force the runner into the pile. There’s some explosiveness there that pops when they let him come forward. 

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Pats top pick Kyle Dugger is having a very impressive start to camp. Dugger’s interception in seven-on-seven’s came with him in centerfield at free safety. He saw Stidham loading up to throw the bomb, found Byrd, and arrived early enough to make it look like he was fielding a punt. Although the interception was nice, Dugger had an excellent run fit during 11-on-11s that would’ve been a flashy tackle if it was a live tackling rep. His versatility and athleticism are on full display. Best rookie in camp so far. 

 

[Hunter2_1]

- Makes sense that Stidham is looking better in terms of base timing etc, but fully expect Cam to improve and start taking JS's reps more consistently. Cam (at his best) can break a game open, and with a lack of talent, we could use that. 

- Great news about Harris

- By now I'd have hoped N'Keal would more than just 'shrug' but that is subjective and he's probably just 'doing his job....'

"He’s still struggling to run away from the Pats starting secondary" - even Tyreek Hill struggled at times. I'd be dissapointed if N'Keal was blowing apart our one elite unit

- Uche in various LB spots - called it.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Hunter2_1

[m haynes]

https://www.nfl.com/videos/arizona-state-wide-receiver-n-keal-harry-s-2019-nfl-scouting-combine-work-422567

Every time I watch this, I cry! I know don't watch it. 😊 Harry has no speed/twitch in his lower body. He runs like a duck and there is no way he lives up to his 1st RD status. I keep reading he working on speed and losing weight. I would go in the opposite direction. I would add weight and use him as a H-Back/TE.  They are still questioning a 1st RD pick. That has to tell you something !

IMO if you watch this, there is no way you see a 1st RD WR.

On the other hand, I'm excited with Pats rookie TE Devin Asiasi..  I thought he was the best TE in the draft. He's a steal in the 3rd RD. Watch any tape on him and his skills jump out.

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Start the training camp hype train for rookie tight end Devin Asiasi. He’s heavily involved in practice, caught a few balls up the seam on Tuesday and one crosser over the middle, and was greeted by the entire tight end group including coach Nick Caley for a great pass set on a max protect play-action drop-back. Asiasi is doing it all, quickly, and the quarterbacks are loving targeting him between the numbers. He also caught a touchdown late in practice from Newton on the goal line. We’ll see if it translates into production during the season, but Asiasi is off to a great start.

https://www.clnsmedia.com/lazars-patriots-camp-notebook-dugger-asiasi-and-harris-off-to-great-starts-at-pats-camp/

[Hunter2_1]

1 hour ago, m haynes said:

https://www.nfl.com/videos/arizona-state-wide-receiver-n-keal-harry-s-2019-nfl-scouting-combine-work-422567

Every time I watch this, I cry! I know don't watch it. 😊 Harry has no speed/twitch in his lower body. He runs like a duck and there is no way he lives up to his 1st RD status. I keep reading he working on speed and losing weight. I would go in the opposite direction. I would add weight and use him as a H-Back/TE.  They are still questioning a 1st RD pick. That has to tell you something !

IMO if you watch this, there is no way you see a 1st RD WR.

On the other hand, I'm excited with Pats rookie TE Devin Asiasi..  I thought he was the best TE in the draft. He's a steal in the 3rd RD. Watch any tape on him and his skills jump out.

https://www.clnsmedia.com/lazars-patriots-camp-notebook-dugger-asiasi-and-harris-off-to-great-starts-at-pats-camp/

When we drafted him I was happy with the pick because I thought he'd be used in situations where he would simply box out defenders. Run him over the middle and just jump in front of LBs/NCB and they can't do anything about it because he's so big and strong. I also thought we'd use him in screens a lot because he's a very good catch and run type receiver (well he was in Zona).

But, we didn't really use him like that. We used him a lot on timing routes. So...I dunno where we stand with him. I think he SHOULD be a nightmare to defend if running across the face of coverage. It's clear he hasn't got the burns to play like a typical X. 

I'll judge him on this season, I think. 

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Hunter2_1

[Deadpulse]

14 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

When we drafted him I was happy with the pick because I thought he'd be used in situations where he would simply box out defenders. Run him over the middle and just jump in front of LBs/NCB and they can't do anything about it because he's so big and strong. I also thought we'd use him in screens a lot because he's a very good catch and run type receiver (well he was in Zona).

But, we didn't really use him like that. We used him a lot on timing routes. So...I dunno where we stand with him. I think he SHOULD be a nightmare to defend if running across the face of coverage. It's clear he hasn't got the burns to play like a typical X. 

I'll judge him on this season, I think. 

 

The entire Tom Brady offense is completely predicated on timing routes and read option routes. It's a big reason why talented WRs tend to flame out here. This will probably all change if Cam is under center. 

[m haynes]

56 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

When we drafted him I was happy with the pick because I thought he'd be used in situations where he would simply box out defenders. Run him over the middle and just jump in front of LBs/NCB and they can't do anything about it because he's so big and strong. I also thought we'd use him in screens a lot because he's a very good catch and run type receiver (well he was in Zona).

But, we didn't really use him like that. We used him a lot on timing routes. So...I dunno where we stand with him. I think he SHOULD be a nightmare to defend if running across the face of coverage. It's clear he hasn't got the burns to play like a typical X. 

I'll judge him on this season, I think. 

 

I think you are right on the money on the way to use him however it has to be a match up with a LB. CB and Safeties are to quick. He can't use his size on them. All they need to do is give him a cushion and close.

Aaron Hernandez  6-2, 250lb  This is the way I would go with Harry.

[m haynes]

49 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

why talented WRs tend to flame out here.

I'm not sure if this is true. I know the names your talking about however they were on their last legs,  not in their prime. In 20 years I can only think of few Outside WR. Branch, Moss that were high profile players that excelled.

[DoleINGout]

Glad to see Dugger doing well

[Deadpulse]

23 minutes ago, m haynes said:

I'm not sure if this is true. I know the names your talking about however they were on their last legs,  not in their prime. In 20 years I can only think of few Outside WR. Branch, Moss that were high profile players that excelled.

Im not just talking about the Ochocincos, Torry Holt, and Reggie Waynes of the world. I am also not even just talking about proven talent. The lack of WR development is most attributed to the system we have been running. 

[m haynes]

2 hours ago, Deadpulse said:

Im not just talking about the Ochocincos, Torry Holt, and Reggie Waynes of the world. I am also not even just talking about proven talent. The lack of WR development is most attributed to the system we have been running. 

IMO There's couple of factors come into play with Pats WR. 

1. The type they look for that position. Size and blocking is part of makeup, which I can't stand. Yes it's great to have these traits however,  I want speed and quickness, did I mentioned speed. 😁

2. They don't put much stock in the position, its almost an after thought. I was shocked they took a WR and a RB in the 1st RD. I hate WR or RB in the 1st RD. There is only one reason I would take a RB in RD 1,  and that is a RB with WR skills.  Christian McCaffrey and Clyde Edwards-Helaire ( who will be a star) not freaking Sony!!!!!! Boy would I fire that scout. hey BB take Sony over Chubbs!!!! Yikes. 

3. Taking a guy from a small school that has no clue what a route tree means. Bethel Johnson, Brandon Tate,Taylor Price, Aaron Dobson. I look at big schools that run a Pro type offenses, I don't look at teams like Georgia Tech (run wish bone) when I need a WR.

[Deadpulse]

30 minutes ago, m haynes said:

IMO There's couple of factors come into play with Pats WR. 

1. The type they look for that position. Size and blocking is part of makeup, which I can't stand. Yes it's great to have these traits however,  I want speed and quickness, did I mentioned speed. 😁

2. They don't put much stock in the position, its almost an after thought. I was shocked they took a WR and a RB in the 1st RD. I hate WR or RB in the 1st RD. There is only one reason I would take a RB in RD 1,  and that is a RB with WR skills.  Christian McCaffrey and Clyde Edwards-Helaire ( who will be a star) not freaking Sony!!!!!! Boy would I fire that scout. hey BB take Sony over Chubbs!!!! Yikes. 

3. Taking a guy from a small school that has no clue what a route tree means. Bethel Johnson, Brandon Tate,Taylor Price, Aaron Dobson. I look at big schools that run a Pro type offenses, I don't look at teams like Georgia Tech (run wish bone) when I need a WR.

1. There are plenty of WR they have brought in that don't fit the size and blocking trait. They spent a 1st on Cooks for gods sake. Lloyd was never an adept blocker. They traded for Chad who was not a blocker. 

 

2. I think this is false. There are plenty of examples of them putting an onus on the WR position. You can go all the way back to 2002 when they took Branch in round 2. Do we get into years like last year and 2006 and 2010 where our WR corp drops? Yes every team has turnover like this. However, after down years there is typically a concerted effort to retool at the position. This year is the only outlier, and I point to Tom leaving creating that situation.

 

3. Rookies are expected to learn. If you are only taking guys who run pro style offenses in CFB and have experience with such a route tree you are gonna miss on some all time great players. Hell, Randy Moss didnt work in a pro style offense at Marshall. If you want to place blame, its not the scouts for suggesting small school or non-pro style offense program players but the WR coaches who try and fail to teach rookies the NFL play style. 

[Hunter2_1]

16 hours ago, Deadpulse said:

Im not just talking about the Ochocincos, Torry Holt, and Reggie Waynes of the world. I am also not even just talking about proven talent. The lack of WR development is most attributed to the system we have been running. 

Dobson and Jackson etc?

[Hunter2_1]

Quarterback performance: Jarrett Stidham 2 of 6 with 2 INTs (11-on-11s); Cam Newton 7 of 13 (11-on-11s), 3 of 4 (7-on-7s); Brian Hoyer 7 of 12 (11-on-11s), 0 of 4 with 1 INT (7-on-7s)

Jarrett Stidham had a rough 11-on-11 period, throwing a pair of interceptions and also missing easy passes to James White and Devin Asiasi. The first of his picks came when the second-year man was unable to get the football to Devin Ross: Myles Bryant was able to take advantage of an underthrown ball to pick it off. The second interception, meanwhile, was caught by Justin Bethel on another off-target throw. Stidham had some good moments early on, but his turnovers are staring to add up while his accuracy was not up to par.

Cam Newton, on the other hand, appeared to be more comfortable in his third full-pads practice as a Patriot. Not only did he end the session as the lone quarterback without an interception in team drills, he also appeared to be more decisive with his decision making — something that has been a problem for him earlier this week. He did not necessarily stand out, but he was the top quarterback on the field today.

Quarterback reps were split more unequally today as compared to the last three sessions: Newton and Brian Hoyer saw more action and attempted 17 and 16 passes in team drills, respectively, while Stidham had a comparatively quiet morning and threw just six total passes versus a live defense. Quarterbacks were again inconsistent, with Newton probably the least uneven of the pack.

Coming off arguably his best practice since joining the Patriots, Damiere Byrd continued to build momentum in the race for the team’s wide receiver spots on Thursday. During one-on-ones, for example, he was able to register wins against both J.C. Jackson and Jason McCourty.

 

 

It's only camp, but Stidham has been cheeks.

[Deadpulse]

I dont see the benefit from starting Stidham, even if he is the QB with the most potential. Id rather have him continue to sit for a full season and continue to get better holding a clipboard. I am a big proponent of sitting before starting.