First 2020 Post - How Long Do We Stick With Patricia

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

1 minute ago, Karnage84 said:

Stafford was on a roll with a 139 consecutive start streak up until last year. He was the locked in, guaranteed starter. So you aren't going to get guys coming in who see a potential crack and want an opportunity. Otherwise you're usually going to have to pay to get someone as a decent backup. The Cam Newton/Jameis Winston type deals aren't the usual. There is a part of me that does understand not wanting to invest in someone that is likely to never see the field but I also do blame him for leaving the team that exposed if/when he did go down. 

While the two guys are very closely tied and linked, I do think that ownership needs to answer the question for themselves and for us as fans. Is this a coaching issue, a personnel issue or both? If you get rid of Patricia now then you can make a clear distinction between the guys Quinn has brought to the coaching staff and the kind of plays they're making on the field. 

Yeah, but I don't think anyone can argue that the unknown Driskel and Blough gave us a better chance to win than a number of more expensive backup options.

And, I kinda agree: I don't really want them to spend relevant resources on a backup QB. If Stafford goes down, I don't see us winning games, and I'd rather just throw a young guy out there and work towards a higher pick.

But... if we're going to blame Patricia for losing without Stafford (and I don't, but many do), we have to also blame Quinn for not putting a better backup on the roster. It has to be both or neither, in my opinion.

[diehardlionfan]

I thought this was interesting.

https://lionswire.usatoday.com/2020/10/05/former-lions-players-are-hammering-matt-patricia-over-post-game-quote/?utm_source=lionswire&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=pos1headline

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

3 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said:

I thought this was interesting.

https://lionswire.usatoday.com/2020/10/05/former-lions-players-are-hammering-matt-patricia-over-post-game-quote/?utm_source=lionswire&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=pos1headline

Yeah, I didn't take Patricia's comments that way when I first heard them.

"Many are taking it as criticism of Caldwell's team, and I see that, but that's not what I thought when I first heard it.

Defensive coaches tend to have scheme preferences. Patricia won multiple Super Bowls as a defensive coordinator of a very specific defense. Naturally, he's going to believe that such a defense is the most effective form. Quinn reinforced this notion when he admitted that, during his first two drafts, he was "drafting guys with skillsets that he was largely unfamiliar with", and that he was glad to bring Patricia on-board because he's "more familiar with those types of players".

Knowing this, it's undeniable that Patricia wanted to revamp the defense. His moves so far clearly haven't had the desired effect, and I think that's what he's alluding to: revamping a defense is a big task, and he's still trying to do that."

[SimbaWho]

On 10/6/2020 at 5:35 AM, Nnivolcm said:

This is the best argument I've heard for making a move now, I just don't know if it's possible to get the GM you want mid season while most of the candidates are employed by other teams and can't spare the time to go through the hiring process. 

If you go with a interim GM you have to go with one who knows his job is to sell sell sell. 

Yeah, I get that you can't talk to guys that are actually hired by teams, but not every candidate,(I assume), is hired by a team. They have time, and yeah, any interim GM does know they're job. I mean I doubt they get the privilege to make major moves, but anyone on a 1 year expiring deal would be game for a new GM.  

Anyone as interim GM is likely within the organization already so, they should know the players, etc.

There are legit guys though Lions can move to get a rebuild started well. WR Marvin Jones(3rd-5th), OL Joe Dahl(3rd-5th), DE Romeo Okwara(7th), LB Jarrad Davis(7th). Trading one or two of those guys for picks would be a huge deal. 

Edited October 7, 2020 by SimbaWho

[diehardlionfan]

On 10/7/2020 at 9:20 AM, SimbaWho said:

Yeah, I get that you can't talk to guys that are actually hired by teams, but not every candidate,(I assume), is hired by a team. They have time, and yeah, any interim GM does know they're job. I mean I doubt they get the privilege to make major moves, but anyone on a 1 year expiring deal would be game for a new GM.  

Anyone as interim GM is likely within the organization already so, they should know the players, etc.

There are legit guys though Lions can move to get a rebuild started well. WR Marvin Jones(3rd-5th), OL Joe Dahl(3rd-5th), DE Romeo Okwara(7th), LB Jarrad Davis(7th). Trading one or two of those guys for picks would be a huge deal. 

The Lions would probably have to include picks to move some of their guys. 

[SimbaWho]

On 10/10/2020 at 1:00 PM, diehardlionfan said:

The Lions would probably have to include picks to move some of their guys. 

Really, out of those names? I mean I'd package Okwara/Davis together for a 7th even from... idk someone like Dallas or another team dying for defense and in the playoff run/chase still. 

Dahl/Jones seem like easy moves if a GM wants to move them.

Don't really have to hit home runs if you're an interim Gm, you've just gotta do something to give the new GM tools to use... and maybe ownership approval. You'll be considered a success for an interim hire and maybe get legit looks at other positions/organizations. 

[BigC421/]

So Travis Fulgham......😓

[diehardlionfan]

1 hour ago, SimbaWho said:

Really, out of those names? I mean I'd package Okwara/Davis together for a 7th even from... idk someone like Dallas or another team dying for defense and in the playoff run/chase still. 

Dahl/Jones seem like easy moves if a GM wants to move them.

Don't really have to hit home runs if you're an interim Gm, you've just gotta do something to give the new GM tools to use... and maybe ownership approval. You'll be considered a success for an interim hire and maybe get legit looks at other positions/organizations. 

It was a tongue in cheek remark. My way of commenting on the lack of talent.

I was just looking at the steps Mike Mayock and Gruden have made on the Raiders roster. I watched them play KC today, 

The difference in the Raiders rebuild compared to the Lions is night and day. 

I agree an interim GM doesn’t have to hit home runs. Adding picks, cap space, guys on last year contracts can all be of benefit. At the same time it has to be a measured approach.

 

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

2 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said:

It was a tongue in cheek remark. My way of commenting on the lack of talent.

I was just looking at the steps Mike Mayock and Gruden have made on the Raiders roster. I watched them play KC today, 

The difference in the Raiders rebuild compared to the Lions is night and day. 

I agree an interim GM doesn’t have to hit home runs. Adding picks, cap space, guys on last year contracts can all be of benefit. At the same time it has to be a measured approach.

 

See, I don't really disagree, but I remember our Week 4 game against the Chiefs in 2019, where we essentially outplayed them, a 4 down Mahomes scramble was the difference between us winning that game, and how our fanbase was saying the exact same thing about Quinn and Patricia. That was just last year...

[diehardlionfan]

1 hour ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

See, I don't really disagree, but I remember our Week 4 game against the Chiefs in 2019, where we essentially outplayed them, a 4 down Mahomes scramble was the difference between us winning that game, and how our fanbase was saying the exact same thing about Quinn and Patricia. That was just last year...

I love/hate that game. It was the game that made me a Coleman fan. Kerryon Johnson had the best game of his career. Both teams couldn’t hold on to the ball and it featured that wonky fumble, recovery TD by the Chiefs.

The team played with far more confidence and swagger at that point. It sure would be nice to have better DT’s.

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

1 minute ago, diehardlionfan said:

I love/hate that game. It was the game that made me a Coleman fan. Kerryon Johnson had the best game of his career. Both teams couldn’t hold on to the ball and it featured that wonky fumble, recovery TD by the Chiefs.

The team played with far more confidence and swagger at that point. It sure would be nice to have better DT’s.

I completely agree! I don't know why they've allowed us to get so weak up the middle. I mean, this defense thrived when they traded for Snacks. It shouldn't be a surprise that being strong up front is key.

(It also makes me wonder if Patricia really wanted Derrick Brown, and for that reason.)

[diehardlionfan]

6 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I completely agree! I don't know why they've allowed us to get so weak up the middle. I mean, this defense thrived when they traded for Snacks. It shouldn't be a surprise that being strong up front is key.

(It also makes me wonder if Patricia really wanted Derrick Brown, and for that reason.)

It does make you wonder. It’s just such a glaring weakness.