Lions @Vikings

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

10 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I dont think he is that versatile because he is really bad at RT.  We paid him hoping he oculd be a RT bt he is a better RG.  The problem is the staff is still trying to plug him at RT.  

And I agree we overpaid him.  Yes he got less than Glasnow but Glasnow had multiple years as a starter and was higher rated.  Vatati had less than 16 games started in his career and had bounced all over the line.  He was a backup OL that we paid solid starter money for.  Maybe others were in on him but if thats the case, find something different.  Crosby has been better as a RT, and would have been far cheaper as a starter.  

What? Vaitai has literally started 26 games in his career so far. With 6 started this year, that puts him at 20 starts when we signed him.

He was a backup OL because the two OTs in front of him, Lane Johnson and Jason Peters, were both elite players. When he played, he was decent. He's not "really bad" at RT; again, he's a good run-blocker. That's part of playing that position. He will never be a great pass-protector, but that doesn't make a "really bad" player... unless you ask that player to pass-block on 70%+ of his snaps. (Crosby is "far cheaper as a starter" right now. We just happen to have a strong run-blocking OG next to him, and for less than what Glasgow would've demanded.)

Quinn and Patricia wanted to build a running game, so bringing in a OG/OT that is a strong run-blocker makes a lot of sense. If Crosby falters, or gets hurt, Vaitai can slide to RT, and our 8th overall TE can help chip in the passing game. He's a much better option at RT than what we have behind Crosby.

[Sllim Pickens]

1 hour ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

What? Vaitai has literally started 26 games in his career so far. With 6 started this year, that puts him at 20 starts when we signed him.

He was a backup OL because the two OTs in front of him, Lane Johnson and Jason Peters, were both elite players. When he played, he was decent. He's not "really bad" at RT; again, he's a good run-blocker. That's part of playing that position. He will never be a great pass-protector, but that doesn't make a "really bad" player... unless you ask that player to pass-block on 70%+ of his snaps. (Crosby is "far cheaper as a starter" right now. We just happen to have a strong run-blocking OG next to him, and for less than what Glasgow would've demanded.)

Quinn and Patricia wanted to build a running game, so bringing in a OG/OT that is a strong run-blocker makes a lot of sense. If Crosby falters, or gets hurt, Vaitai can slide to RT, and our 8th overall TE can help chip in the passing game. He's a much better option at RT than what we have behind Crosby.

We attempt to pass the ball on 60+% of the plays.  Which means Vaitai is struggling over half the time and thats if he is perfect in the run game.  He has allowed 5 sacks so far this year which is crazy given he has played RT for only about 5 games.  

Prior to this year he had an awful stretch in 2017 when he was playing LT which was the most snaps he got in a season of his career by double.  In 2018 and 2019 he was average as a rotational spot starter and we paid him to be more than the rotational piece he is.  I get they wanted to add to the run game.  I get that that is Vaitai's strength, but you cant ignore his glaring weakness and pay him only for his strength.  If they signed him to play RG, fine, but it was still an overpay for a career backup who had some decent games over the years but was overall nothing special.  

And yes he is better than anything behind Crosby at RT, but you dont pay a backup nearly 10M a year and expect to win.  

[Nnivolcm]

11 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Well, we did have film on Vaitai, and, so far, he's right in line with where the analytics sites had him: good against the run, can struggle in protection.

I love the versatility. We paid less than Glasgow for a guy that can play OG or OT, and play reasonably well. I don't think the versatility can be understated.

Glasgow has shown he can excel as a guard and a center. That's better versatility than being a good run blocking guard and a garbage tackle imo. 

Edited November 13, 2020 by Nnivolcm

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

1 hour ago, Nnivolcm said:

Glasgow has shown he can excel as a guard and a center. That's better versatility than being a good run blocking guard and a garbage tackle imo. 

Garbage tackle? This isn't a serious post.

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

19 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

We attempt to pass the ball on 60+% of the plays.  Which means Vaitai is struggling over half the time and thats if he is perfect in the run game.  He has allowed 5 sacks so far this year which is crazy given he has played RT for only about 5 games.  

Prior to this year he had an awful stretch in 2017 when he was playing LT which was the most snaps he got in a season of his career by double.  In 2018 and 2019 he was average as a rotational spot starter and we paid him to be more than the rotational piece he is.  I get they wanted to add to the run game.  I get that that is Vaitai's strength, but you cant ignore his glaring weakness and pay him only for his strength.  If they signed him to play RG, fine, but it was still an overpay for a career backup who had some decent games over the years but was overall nothing special.  

And yes he is better than anything behind Crosby at RT, but you dont pay a backup nearly 10M a year and expect to win.  

We're at 61%, and not all of those are 7 step drops. That's not a terrible situation for a run-blocking RT.

And, point? They couldn't see the future when they signed Vaitai. They thought that, after devoting significant resources to the running game, they'd actually be able to run the ball. They didn't think that their defense would be absolutely awful at times, forcing us to pass more than they wanted to.

Yep, Vaitai struggled at LT. This shouldn't shock anyone. He was only a "career backup" because the players in front of him we're All Pro players. We've been over this. You know it. I don't know why you keep saying it.

If Vaitai continues to perform the way he has at OG, he was a great signing.

Edited November 13, 2020 by TL-TwoWinsAway

[Nnivolcm]

11 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Garbage tackle? This isn't a serious post.

Considering the price, and being outplayed by Crosby, it's a serious post. 

[Sllim Pickens]

3 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

We're at 61%, and not all of those are 7 step drops. That's not a terrible situation for a run-blocking RT.

And, point? They couldn't see the future when they signed Vaitai. They thought that, after devoting significant resources to the running game, they'd actually be able to run the ball. They didn't think that their defense would be absolutely awful at times, forcing us to pass more than they wanted to.

Yep, Vaitai struggled at LT. This shouldn't shock anyone. He was only a "career backup" because the players in front of him we're All Pro players. We've been over this. You know it. I don't know why you keep saying it.

If Vaitai continues to perform the way he has at OG, he was a great signing.

I dont care why he was a backup, he was always a backup period.  And his starts were underwhelming, especially on a pass first team.  And we signed him as though he was an above average starting RT.  No matter how you spin it, it was an overpay for what he had proven.  And its showing up in his play this year that he is probably the worst value at RT in the league.  

If they move him to RG, and keep him there, he is closer to worth his value.  But again, he isn't versatile, he is a one dimensional lineman that needs a lot of help to not be a negative asset to the team.