whodatworm23 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Its not often... extremely rarely a superstar franchise quarterback just entering his prime is possibly available via trade. Let's play a little game. Imagine your Mickey Loomis, what would you be willing to give up to acquire DeSean Watson? Trade offer must be semi realistic. Matt Stafford just went for 2 1st rounders a 3rd rounder and a young solid starting quarterback who was a former #1 overall pick so Watson will be really expensive. My offer: Offer has been revised below... First off, I think It will take a ransom to aquire Watson. The Saints have few assets. Sure this is a lot and I'm sure Watson would prefer to play with Thomas but the Saints have the roster to overcome this trade with Watson on board. The Saints organization is well run and Sean Payton has proven time and again that he will find receivers that fit his system. Also, teams with 100 million dollar receivers typically don't win titles. Thomas is disgruntled a little and this trade could humble him a bit. Still a great players and a value of (IMO) a 1st and 3rd round pick. Peat is still a pro-bowl offensive lineman thats still young and signed longterm with guard/tackle flexibility. He'd be an instant starter for Houston and one of their better offensive lineman day one. Now given... this would be my best offer. I'd try to get him cheaper but if push came to shove this is the max I'd be willing to offer. What about you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 After the Stafford trade likely set the market, there's likely no way I'm trading for Watson at this point...Unless by some miracle the Texans take something like 2 first rounds picks and a conditional 3rd round pick maybe throw in Lattimore (as much as I loved the Lattimore draft pick at the time, in hindsight it sure would be nice to have Watson right now). Once we start talking this many high draft picks/players, I'd be more inclined to move up for a Mac Jones or even a Zach Wilson for significantly less. I think the Texans would ask far more than it would take to land those guys. Watson is an excellent QB that is bordering on elite, but I don't think I sell the entire farm for him. I certainly wouldn't be a fan of getting rid of a WR in his prime that is quite possibly the best in the game that recently won Offensive Player of the Year. I'll be shocked if Thomas doesn't bounce back next year with his mentality to prove his doubters wrong. I liken it a lot to the Kamara situation last year where Saints fans were calling him out and saying we shouldn't pay him and all that jazz...Then comes back healthy this year, and puts up one of the best seasons by a RB in franchise history. Seems counter productive to get this top QB and then trade away his top target...Would probably feel like deja vu for him lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodatworm23 Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 I think my thing with Watson is that I do view him as elite, especially if being coached by Sean Payton in the Saints system. At only 25 years old, Watson would only be 28 by the time the Saints get out from under the cost of this trade. Losing Thomas would be hard but the Saints always seem to find their next receiver when they need to. Peat is a throw in starter with youth and upside on the o-line. Watson would be in a very different offense, even without Thomas he would have a better coach, o-line, running back. Then the Saints could focus on the receiver position but it wouldn't be bare. I'd rather be looking for a new #1 receiver than a new franchise quarterback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodatworm23 Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 So a Houston reporter is reporting that the Texans want 2 1st, 2 2nd and 2 young DEFENSIVE starters to start conversations about a Watson trade so I will revise my offer to the following... lol My revised offer: 2021 1st round pick 2021 3rd round comp pick 2022 1st round pick 2022 2nd round pick CB Marshon Lattimore DE Marcus Davenport LG Andrus Peat This offer gives the Texans two young defensive starters along with the 2 first there reportedly asking for. Just 1 2nd rounder plus a 3rd rounder and a throw in starting young offensive lineman with a 2nd round value. Sucks losing Lattimore but that means we can resign Hendrickson by shipping out Davenport. Here's another reason to consider giving up the picks... Loomis was speaking the other day on the Covid restrictions and how it prevents scouts from doing their job the way their use to making prospect evaluation much harder these days. Covid restrictions will likely still exist into next off-season so trading picks over the next two years for a young franchise quarterback might be seen as a smarter move and may have had a factor in the Rams thinking in the Stafford deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Part of the Stafford/Goff trade was the fact that the Rams got off of Goffs horrible contract. It was more like 1 1st round pick for Stafford and a 1st + 3rd to eat Goffs contract but it also just so happens to help the Lions to not have to immediately draft a QB but if they did they could let him sit for a year or two before getting rid of Goff for good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Iowa Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) Send them MT. We'd be fine. Our offense was ranked #2 this season (better than previous years) without MT for a huge chunk of time, and without Brees for a big chunk. Can you imagine Watson's production if he's only sacked about 20 times instead of 50 or 60? Trade 2021 1st round pick (basically drafting a QB with experience) 2021 3rd round comp pick Michael Thomas (1st & 2nd round value) 2022 3rd round pick Marcus Davenport (mid draft value, or just to get rid of him and put that money into Hendrickson) Andrus Peat (1st & 3rd round value) That's about 7 picks worth of value, with 1st rounds or value of 1st rounds. Of course, our 1st are the poor man's 2nd, so maybe throw in another for good measure. Who cares, it's worth it. Make a play for Allen Robinson. It'd be cheaper, and he's snagging balls at a high level on a crappy team. Even Corey Davis or Will Fuller (current team mate of Watson) would be a great asset(s). Edit: I don't want to see us get rid of Lattimore. He's going to have a new coach next year, but likely a familiar system (provided we retain Dennis Allen). I think Lattimore can be coached into the production we saw from him his rookie season. We saw flashes of it late this season, and I think he's due for a rebound. Aaron Glenn just wasn't a good D-backs coach for us. Edited February 1, 2021 by Mid Iowa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 This offense has been rolling just about every year with all sorts of different personnel at the skill positions. You don’t need a top WR to win, but you do need a top QB or a generationally good defense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 24 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said: This offense has been rolling just about every year with all sorts of different personnel at the skill positions. You don’t need a top WR to win, but you do need a top QB or a generationally good defense. Pretty sure we were rolling just fine with Bridgewater and Hill as well. There are several ways to approach most rosters. A) Draft a franchise QB on a rookie contract and win a Super Bowl while you can spend money on the OL/Skill positions/Defense (See Seattle's Run) B) Pay a franchise QB what they're worth and hope they can make up for what you have to sacrifice on the OL/Skill/Defense (See Seattle now) C) Pay a franchise QB and hope that they can help you overcome your shortcomings where you have to sacrifice (See KC) D) Get a good QB on a reasonable deal with an OL/Skill/Defense around him to make his job easier (Tampa Bay/2019 49ers) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 4 minutes ago, Raves said: Pretty sure we were rolling just fine with Bridgewater and Hill as well. There are several ways to approach most rosters. A) Draft a franchise QB on a rookie contract and win a Super Bowl while you can spend money on the OL/Skill positions/Defense (See Seattle's Run) B) Pay a franchise QB what they're worth and hope they can make up for what you have to sacrifice on the OL/Skill/Defense (See Seattle now) C) Pay a franchise QB and hope that they can help you overcome your shortcomings where you have to sacrifice (See KC) D) Get a good QB on a reasonable deal with an OL/Skill/Defense around him to make his job easier (Tampa Bay/2019 49ers) We were winning as a team, the offense wasn’t anything to write home about. They hovered around 15th by every measure during Bridgewater’s term, and averaged a full TD less during Taysom turn. In any case, I’m talking about winning a super bowl. If you want to win one with an average QB, you better have a special defense. In all cases, having a top WR doesn’t correlate anywhere close as well as having a top QB, a top defense, or both preferably. Look at the Packers, had Favre and Rodgers, but also the number 1 ranked defense both years. The Pats have consistently had Brady and a top 1-5 defense, Manning had great defenses both years, Wilson had the best defense of this era, Big Ben has the top defense both years. KC has Mahomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 8 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said: We were winning as a team, the offense wasn’t anything to write home about. They hovered around 15th by every measure during Bridgewater’s term, and averaged a full TD less during Taysom turn. In any case, I’m talking about winning a super bowl. If you want to win one with an average QB, you better have a special defense. In all cases, having a top WR doesn’t correlate anywhere close as well as having a top QB, a top defense, or both preferably. Look at the Packers, had Favre and Rodgers, but also the number 1 ranked defense both years. The Pats have consistently had Brady and a top 1-5 defense, Manning had great defenses both years, Wilson had the best defense of this era, Big Ben has the top defense both years. KC has Mahomes. Saints defense is pretty good, not quite #1 but pretty good, probably in the 3-10 range when healthy. With that they just need an above average QB with good weapons to win a Super Bowl. I mean Nick Foles won one didn't he? No one will have Mahomes or close to it outside of KC. Now here's a question for you, do you think the Saints are closer to winning the Super Bowl with Watson instead of MT, with Winston that plays on the level of '06 Brees which was better than what Winston has played but not an unrealistic jump and MT on the team, or trading away MT for multiple picks allowing them to lock-up key defensive players and drafting a 1st round QB like Fields/Lance/Wilson/Jones along with using the added picks from MT to further solidify the defense/OL, possibly still using Hill/Winston as a stop gap for the rookie QB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 13 minutes ago, Raves said: Saints defense is pretty good, not quite #1 but pretty good, probably in the 3-10 range when healthy. With that they just need an above average QB with good weapons to win a Super Bowl. I mean Nick Foles won one didn't he? No one will have Mahomes or close to it outside of KC. Now here's a question for you, do you think the Saints are closer to winning the Super Bowl with Watson instead of MT, with Winston that plays on the level of '06 Brees which was better than what Winston has played but not an unrealistic jump and MT on the team, or trading away MT for multiple picks allowing them to lock-up key defensive players and drafting a 1st round QB like Fields/Lance/Wilson/Jones along with using the added picks from MT to further solidify the defense/OL, possibly still using Hill/Winston as a stop gap for the rookie QB? Thats a hard question to answer. If Winston can play at that level and continue progressing throughout his prime, I maybe take that option. But it’s hard to turn Watson down if the trade presented itself, he’s just too good. In both cases, whatever decision I made would be based on my faith in the QB playing at a high level rather than trying all that hard to keep Thomas. I don’t mean to say he’s not a great player and can’t help a team win a Super Bowl, he certainly can do that. I just value QB so much higher. Saints defense has been a hard one to rank. They’re inconsistent throughout the season, with peaks as high as number 1, and valleys in the twenties. They’re generally maybe top 5 in the postseason which is great, although still prone to making boneheaded plays and don’t really take over the game like an elite defense, unless they’re playing Trubisky. Its a defense that could win a Super Bowl, but old man Brees just couldn’t get it done. And it snot all on him, but a large part of it is. I don’t think Taysom or Jameis would have gotten it done either though, at least not this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodatworm23 Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 44 minutes ago, Raves said: Pretty sure we were rolling just fine with Bridgewater and Hill as well. There are several ways to approach most rosters. A) Draft a franchise QB on a rookie contract and win a Super Bowl while you can spend money on the OL/Skill positions/Defense (See Seattle's Run) B) Pay a franchise QB what they're worth and hope they can make up for what you have to sacrifice on the OL/Skill/Defense (See Seattle now) C) Pay a franchise QB and hope that they can help you overcome your shortcomings where you have to sacrifice (See KC) D) Get a good QB on a reasonable deal with an OL/Skill/Defense around him to make his job easier (Tampa Bay/2019 49ers) We were rolling but were we gonna win a championship with either??? I watched those games, both Teddy and Hill benifited greatly from the defense playing out their minds. The only exception was Teddy vs the Buccaneers. At no point did I think with either "boy, this team has got it now" what I did think was "boy, I hope the defense can keep playing like this till Brees gets back". Now if your goal is to just win games then sure... but if your goal is to win a Superbowl you better not settle at the quarterback position. I do agree that either a great quarterback or a generational defense will win you a title, everything else is outliers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said: Thats a hard question to answer. If Winston can play at that level and continue progressing throughout his prime, I maybe take that option. But it’s hard to turn Watson down if the trade presented itself, he’s just too good. In both cases, whatever decision I made would be based on my faith in the QB playing at a high level rather than trying all that hard to keep Thomas. I don’t mean to say he’s not a great player and can’t help a team win a Super Bowl, he certainly can do that. I just value QB so much higher. Saints defense has been a hard one to rank. They’re inconsistent throughout the season, with peaks as high as number 1, and valleys in the twenties. They’re generally maybe top 5 in the postseason which is great, although still prone to making boneheaded plays and don’t really take over the game like an elite defense, unless they’re playing Trubisky. Its a defense that could win a Super Bowl, but old man Brees just couldn’t get it done. And it snot all on him, but a large part of it is. I don’t think Taysom or Jameis would have gotten it done either though, at least not this year. As much as I love MT, I think I would pick my last option personally. Trade #1: Saints get: #18, #39 Miami gets: Michael Thomas Miami gets an elite WR to pair with Tua and they can still spend the #3 pick on Sewell instead, or even still take someone like Chase and give him an elite pairing of WRs. Trade #2: Saints get: #13 Chargers get: Terron Armstead, #39 (From Miami/MT trade) #13-Jaycee Horn, CB #18-Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, LB #28-Jalen Mayfield-OT Get a young CB to replace Jenkins who will be a cap casualty, get a rangy LBer to pair with Davis, and get a new RT and have Ramzcyk move to LT. Roll with Winston this year look to draft a QB next year or even in the 2nd/3rd round with someone like Kyle Trask. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 20 hours ago, whodatworm23 said: We were rolling but were we gonna win a championship with either??? I watched those games, both Teddy and Hill benifited greatly from the defense playing out their minds. The only exception was Teddy vs the Buccaneers. At no point did I think with either "boy, this team has got it now" what I did think was "boy, I hope the defense can keep playing like this till Brees gets back". Now if your goal is to just win games then sure... but if your goal is to win a Superbowl you better not settle at the quarterback position. I do agree that either a great quarterback or a generational defense will win you a title, everything else is outliers. Yes, and of the few exceptions I can think of, all upped their game tremendously in the postseason. Foles and Flacco both played at an MVP level head and shoulders better than they normally would. Eli upped his game considerably, but his defenses straight up started dominating in the postseason. They held the 07 Pats to 14 points, demolished the 15-1 Packers in 2011, and **** out the Falcons, all on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodatworm23 Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share Posted February 2, 2021 37 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said: Yes, and of the few exceptions I can think of, all upped their game tremendously in the postseason. Foles and Flacco both played at an MVP level head and shoulders better than they normally would. Eli upped his game considerably, but his defenses straight up started dominating in the postseason. They held the 07 Pats to 14 points, demolished the 15-1 Packers in 2011, and **** out the Falcons, all on the road. Flacco, Foles and Eli all used their games but... Ravens... hell of a overall defense, Suggs was a terror! Eagles... us against the world mindset Giants... pass rush was just downright wicked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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