Bobby816 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 It’s a requirement for anyone in our FO to completely ignore offense Round 1. If an offensive player is brought up in scouting and meetings, you’re fired in the spot. How dare you bring up quality draft picks on offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetfan8178 Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 I just need one of you who absolutely insist that Petty and Hack have no shot to ever be an NFL QB and to not waste our time on them to explain how you know this? Was Brady a "sure thing" I mean if we can all tell then how is it that Ryan Leaf didnt pan out? Or Jamarcus Russell? Is it the crystal ball that tells a coach that a guy like Russelll Wilson will be better than his 75th pick? You don't know unless you develop them and let them play. If the physical tools are there the rest is coaching. Look at what Case Keenum is doing in Minnesota. I realize we needed to develop other players and Mccown has done that for us but our 3 biggest needs for the last 8 years are still our 3 biggest needs so who really cares. Every year its the same crap... QB, Pass Rusher and OL... We drafted 2 young QB's who have talent and physical ability and they have ridden the bench and never gotten a fair chance to play. So what happens next year? We trade the house to draft Rosen and then Mccown comes back and wins the starting job in camp on some BS again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doumeyer Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 12 minutes ago, jetfan8178 said: I just need one of you who absolutely insist that Petty and Hack have no shot to ever be an NFL QB and to not waste our time on them to explain how you know this? Was Brady a "sure thing" I mean if we can all tell then how is it that Ryan Leaf didnt pan out? Or Jamarcus Russell? Is it the crystal ball that tells a coach that a guy like Russelll Wilson will be better than his 75th pick? You don't know unless you develop them and let them play. If the physical tools are there the rest is coaching. Look at what Case Keenum is doing in Minnesota. I realize we needed to develop other players and Mccown has done that for us but our 3 biggest needs for the last 8 years are still our 3 biggest needs so who really cares. Every year its the same crap... QB, Pass Rusher and OL... We drafted 2 young QB's who have talent and physical ability and they have ridden the bench and never gotten a fair chance to play. So what happens next year? We trade the house to draft Rosen and then Mccown comes back and wins the starting job in camp on some BS again... Sorry I left you off my list but you also are 100% correct. Outstanding post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDotNova Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 1 hour ago, jetfan8178 said: I just need one of you who absolutely insist that Petty and Hack have no shot to ever be an NFL QB and to not waste our time on them to explain how you know this? Was Brady a "sure thing" I mean if we can all tell then how is it that Ryan Leaf didnt pan out? Or Jamarcus Russell? Is it the crystal ball that tells a coach that a guy like Russelll Wilson will be better than his 75th pick? You don't know unless you develop them and let them play. If the physical tools are there the rest is coaching. Look at what Case Keenum is doing in Minnesota. I realize we needed to develop other players and Mccown has done that for us but our 3 biggest needs for the last 8 years are still our 3 biggest needs so who really cares. Every year its the same crap... QB, Pass Rusher and OL... We drafted 2 young QB's who have talent and physical ability and they have ridden the bench and never gotten a fair chance to play. So what happens next year? We trade the house to draft Rosen and then Mccown comes back and wins the starting job in camp on some BS again... This is why we need to play these young QBs. While we are not mathematically out of the playoffs, there's a <1% chance we make the playoffs. This is suppose to be a year where are young players get to prove their worth. To see which ones we can build on going forward. I've been ok with McCown to this point, but let's move on. The worse thing that can happen is both young QBs bomb and we get a top 5 pick. I can't see young players like ASJ, Robby, Lee, the safeties etc, complaining about other young players getting opportunities when they themselves were giving a chance to prove their worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 2 hours ago, jetfan8178 said: I just need one of you who absolutely insist that Petty and Hack have no shot to ever be an NFL QB and to not waste our time on them to explain how you know this? Was Brady a "sure thing" I mean if we can all tell then how is it that Ryan Leaf didnt pan out? Or Jamarcus Russell? Is it the crystal ball that tells a coach that a guy like Russelll Wilson will be better than his 75th pick? You don't know unless you develop them and let them play. If the physical tools are there the rest is coaching. Look at what Case Keenum is doing in Minnesota. I realize we needed to develop other players and Mccown has done that for us but our 3 biggest needs for the last 8 years are still our 3 biggest needs so who really cares. Every year its the same crap... QB, Pass Rusher and OL... We drafted 2 young QB's who have talent and physical ability and they have ridden the bench and never gotten a fair chance to play. So what happens next year? We trade the house to draft Rosen and then Mccown comes back and wins the starting job in camp on some BS again... You hit the nail on the head. Opportunity and patience with that opportunity is all these QBs need sometimes. With that comes confidence and then you get a franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doumeyer Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 49 minutes ago, Bobby816 said: You hit the nail on the head. Opportunity and patience with that opportunity is all these QBs need sometimes. With that comes confidence and then you get a franchise QB. I agree, why the last four or five post on this subject are all in agreement, and the FO is going in a different direction. We have to put the real blame on our owner Mr. Johnson. Our owner is a nice man, but he is so weak he seems to have no input in the teams operation. Even now he turn the team operation over to his younger brother Christopher, who was the shipping clerk at Johnson & Johnson in New Brunswick, NJ. It is owners like this why there should be 100% inheritance tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 1 minute ago, doumeyer said: I agree, why the last four or five post on this subject are all in agreement, and the FO is going in a different direction. We have to put the real blame on our owner Mr. Johnson. Our owner is a nice man, but he is so weak he seems to have no input in the teams operation. Even now he turn the team operation over to his younger brother, who was the shipping clerk at Johnson & Johnson in New Brunswick, NJ. The biggest issue with our owner and FO is that the last time we were good was our back to back AFCCG’s. And to be quite honest those teams weren’t good. We backed into the playoffs both years and got hot in the playoffs both years for a couple games. And why was that team good? Defense. So they’ve decided to go defense ever since then hardcore. And the problem with that is the rules have changed since then. The NFL is catered to offense. So we literally are the only team repeatedly spending high draft picks and cap space still on the side of the ball that the nfl is trying to get away from. Until they realize that. This franchise will be a bottom team every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockice_8 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 4 hours ago, Bobby816 said: It’s a requirement for anyone in our FO to completely ignore offense Round 1. If an offensive player is brought up in scouting and meetings, you’re fired in the spot. How dare you bring up quality draft picks on offense. This idea that you need 1st round talent at the skill positions is just not true. Most of the league leaders at WR and RB are not even from round 1. If we are looking for round 1 offensive talent it should be at QB and OL, not WR, RB, or TE. Every once and a while there is a generational talent like Julio/Calvin at WR but I would bet most GM's regret going WR early like Cooper/Watkins. RB is a position I wouldn't even consider for a team like us who have so many other major holes at key spots like QB, LT, Pass Rusher and CB. As for the QB situation I love the optimism with patience and everything but what is likely to happen is the opposite. Hack will come in crash and burn horribly like Peterman while Bowles loses the locker room and his job. I just don't understand why we want to watch that train wreck so bad outside of helping the tank. Hack is so far away from taking the job from a 38 year old career backup yet people are still pretending that he might actually be the future. Again all that does is help the tank only because expecting good QB play is funny. Think Peterman and Lynch were bad Hack is on that level right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doumeyer Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said: This idea that you need 1st round talent at the skill positions is just not true. Most of the league leaders at WR and RB are not even from round 1. If we are looking for round 1 offensive talent it should be at QB and OL, not WR, RB, or TE. Every once and a while there is a generational talent like Julio/Calvin at WR but I would bet most GM's regret going WR early like Cooper/Watkins. RB is a position I wouldn't even consider for a team like us who have so many other major holes at key spots like QB, LT, Pass Rusher and CB. As for the QB situation I love the optimism with patience and everything but what is likely to happen is the opposite. Hack will come in crash and burn horribly like Peterman while Bowles loses the locker room and his job. I just don't understand why we want to watch that train wreck so bad outside of helping the tank. Hack is so far away from taking the job from a 38 year old career backup yet people are still pretending that he might actually be the future. Again all that does is help the tank only because expecting good QB play is funny. Think Peterman and Lynch were bad Hack is on that level right now. Sorry I don't buy what you are saying. Cooper was doing fine till Carr, went down. Just two games ago he had well over 200 yards pass receiving and two TD's in one game. And Watkins has caught 5 TD's Passes and is averaging 17.5 yards per catch. And wasn't Watkins the same the same guy who catch 11 passes in one game and knocked us out of the playoffs all by him self, and the guy guarding him that day was our 20 million dollar CB. Yes that is the same game that Bowles never made and adjustments to offset Watkins, when it was obvious that Revis was no match for Watkins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockice_8 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, Bobby816 said: The biggest issue with our owner and FO is that the last time we were good was our back to back AFCCG’s. And to be quite honest those teams weren’t good. We backed into the playoffs both years and got hot in the playoffs both years for a couple games. And why was that team good? Defense. So they’ve decided to go defense ever since then hardcore. And the problem with that is the rules have changed since then. The NFL is catered to offense. So we literally are the only team repeatedly spending high draft picks and cap space still on the side of the ball that the nfl is trying to get away from. Until they realize that. This franchise will be a bottom team every year. It's like you want to be the Peyton lead Colts or the Rogers lead GB teams. The reason generational QB's like them only had 1 ring was becuase their defenses were awful. Yet Brady, Eli have multiple rings because they spend resources on defense and pass rush. The reason we suck is because we get zero pressure on the QB and don't have one great player at any cornerstone position. If we had a good QB we wouldn't need any more WR's or RB's as guys like Anderson, Q, ASJ, Powell, McGuire etc can be functional enough for a good QB. Put Brees or Wilson or Stafford or any of the other good/solid QB's on this team and our offense would be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 8 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said: It's like you want to be the Peyton lead Colts or the Rogers lead GB teams. The reason generational QB's like them only had 1 ring was becuase their defenses were awful. Yet Brady, Eli have multiple rings because they spend resources on defense and pass rush. The reason we suck is because we get zero pressure on the QB and don't have one great player at any cornerstone position. If we had a good QB we wouldn't need any more WR's or RB's as guys like Anderson, Q, ASJ, Powell, McGuire etc can be functional enough for a good QB. Put Brees or Wilson or Stafford or any of the other good/solid QB's on this team and our offense would be fine. Peyton threw 28 INTs his rookie year. But you know what the Colts has patience with him. And that turned out pretty good for them now didn’t it? And I love your insight on Hack being awful. Good to know you’re an expert and can tell that by the zero games they play. That’s a very uneducated opinion to say a guy sucks when they haven’t played 1 snap in a NFL game. You’re going by what preseason games? Those mean nothing. Gameplan, playcalling, surrounding talent, etc. isn’t what you get in NFL regular season games. You know how many star QBs looked awful in preseason. Nevermind even preseason. You know how many QBs looked awful in there 1st year in the NFL? Tons. Did you watch Goff last season? Did you watch Wentz last season? Did you watch Carr his 1st seasons? Want me to keep going? Play the guy. Starting a 40yr old does absolutely nothing for this exam and franchise. This is what you get when you have people running the team on the hot seat. They don’t care a darn about the teams future they just want to win tonsave there job. Yet talk about players needing to be unselfish every week. When Bowles and Macc themselves are the most selfish people in the organization right now. Starting a 40yr old qb to win enough games to keep their jobs. All while not giving us any insight to the single mist important position in football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockice_8 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 8 minutes ago, doumeyer said: Sorry I don't buy what you are saying. Cooper was doing fine till Carr, went down. Just two games ago he had well over 200 yards pass receiving and two TD's in one game. And Watkins has caught 5 TD's Passes and is averaging 17.5 yards per catch. And wasn't Watkins the same the same guy who catch 11 passes in one game and knocked us out of the playoffs all by him self, and the guy guarding him that day was our 20 million dollar CB. Yes that is the same game that Bowles never made and adjustments to offset Watkins, when it was obvious that Revis was no match for Watkins. Cooper has 499 yards and isn't in the top 40 for receiving yards, and that is while being among the leaders in drops consistently and with that 200 yard game you mentioned. Take that game out and he's been awful. He's had 4 games of single digit receiving yards and Carr missed what 1-2 games? Alvin Kamara has more yards receiving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 39 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said: This idea that you need 1st round talent at the skill positions is just not true. Most of the league leaders at WR and RB are not even from round 1. If we are looking for round 1 offensive talent it should be at QB and OL, not WR, RB, or TE. Every once and a while there is a generational talent like Julio/Calvin at WR but I would bet most GM's regret going WR early like Cooper/Watkins. RB is a position I wouldn't even consider for a team like us who have so many other major holes at key spots like QB, LT, Pass Rusher and CB. As for the QB situation I love the optimism with patience and everything but what is likely to happen is the opposite. Hack will come in crash and burn horribly like Peterman while Bowles loses the locker room and his job. I just don't understand why we want to watch that train wreck so bad outside of helping the tank. Hack is so far away from taking the job from a 38 year old career backup yet people are still pretending that he might actually be the future. Again all that does is help the tank only because expecting good QB play is funny. Think Peterman and Lynch were bad Hack is on that level right now. Seriously? Ya I guess Gurley, Gordon, Elliott and Fournette have just been ok guys for there teams. Or have been guys that have opened up the offense bc they’re great RBs. I do think you can get talent in the mid rounds at RB. But not great the talent you can get high in the draft. I’m not saying go for a RB Round 1 for sure. But if a guy like Barkley is there, you’re absolutely right I’d want us to draft him. Bc he’s a star. Not a RB that can produce for you in a role like you get with guys in the mid rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockice_8 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, Bobby816 said: Peyton threw 28 INTs his rookie year. But you know what the Colts has patience with him. And that turned out pretty good for them now didn’t it? And I love your insight on Hack being awful. Good to know you’re an expert and can tell that by the zero games they play. That’s a very uneducated opinion to say a guy sucks when they haven’t played 1 snap in a NFL game. You’re going by what preseason games? Those mean nothing. Gameplan, playcalling, surrounding talent, etc. isn’t what you get in NFL regular season games. You know how many star QBs looked awful in preseason. Nevermind even preseason. You know how many QBs looked awful in there 1st year in the NFL? Tons. Did you watch Goff last season? Did you watch Wentz last season? Did you watch Carr his 1st seasons? Want me to keep going? Play the guy. Starting a 40yr old does absolutely nothing for this exam and franchise. This is what you get when you have people running the team on the hot seat. They don’t care a darn about the teams future they just want to win tonsave there job. Yet talk about players needing to be unselfish every week. When Bowles and Macc themselves are the most selfish people in the organization right now. Starting a 40yr old qb to win enough games to keep their jobs. All while not giving us any insight to the single mist important position in football. If you think the preseason means nothing I don't know what to tell you. The preseason means nothing when you tear it up sure but when you can't break the huddle and can't show any semblance of running an offense you can't play period. Manning was considered one of the greatest prospects to ever come out, glad you think Hack is on his level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 1 minute ago, Rockice_8 said: If you think the preseason means nothing I don't know what to tell you. The preseason means nothing when you tear it up sure but when you can't break the huddle and can't show any semblance of running an offense you can't play period. Manning was considered one of the greatest prospects to ever come out, glad you think Hack is on his level. I never said Hack was on his level, so don’t put words in my mouth. You brought up Peyton and I used his rookie struggles to show that a qb needs to play to learn the nfl. Tons of great QBs sucked when they started. I keep using recent examples of Goff and Wentz to prove that as well, not just Peyton. Hack could be awful and stay awful for all I know. But I do know that we don’t know if we never play him. I’ve stated a million times that all a lot of players need is opportunity. And with that opportunity show enough to get more playing time. And that’s when you find great players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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