FA QB's for 2018

[Bobby816]

47 minutes ago, rdelaney89 said:

I like Mac I won't hide that but I don't believe Hack showed enough during the preseason to warrant neglecting the rest of the teams development. If Hack lit it up in preseason I'd be totally on board but he couldn't get anything going against backups while playing with our starters. Now if you feel that no other players are going to develop anymore with McCown in at QB (calling out proper protections/audible to the hot WR/blitz pickup) then I have no problem going with Hack/Petty.

When a QB looks bad in preseason when he's playing against backups with our starters. Last year Hack looked bad playing with backups against backups. Now if Hack played with starters against backups or even backups against backups and performed well then I'd back him and say he deserves to start. We have him under contract the next 2 years, anything he does this season will not change how we view the QB position this off season. I agree Hack/Petty should play IF you feel the other players do not gain anymore knowledge by playing with a competent QB. As mentioned previously, calling out proper protections/audible to the hot WR/blitz pick up/ability to know if a WR is in the proper spot when a ball is thrown/not putting the defense in tough spots with too many 3 & outs. So if you feel our young team has gotten to a point where they can't learn anymore of what I just described then by all means play Hack/Petty. I just believe we are benefiting far more overall given the fact we are addressing QB this offseason regardless of how Hack performs.

 

I'd be kind of surprised if they did not game-plan for preseason games especially given the fact that Hack was given practically 2 full games without McCown. As a fan I want nothing more than to see Hack or Petty play because there is not future with McCown, but there are benefits beyond this year to staying with him. I think by sticking with McCown you are also seeing ownership say:

Future Development > Immediate Money

Which in my mind really isn't a bad thing given how this organization has been run.

You talk like McCown is Peyton. That he’s this great QB with knowledge and he’s helping everyone. He’s not. He’s just a guy that’s been in the league that’s played for like 9 teams. He’s our QB plain and simple bc the GM and HC are scared for their jobs. This is what we did last year playing Fitz WAYYYYY LONGER than we ever should have (we should have never resigned him). I wasn’t against McCown coming here with vet presence. But I’ve always been against playing a 39yr old QB on a rebuilding team. I was ok with playing him for 6-8 weeks. But we are at Week 11 now. It’s time for a change.

[rdelaney89]

2 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

You talk like McCown is Peyton. That he’s this great QB with knowledge and he’s helping everyone. He’s not. He’s just a guy that’s been in the league that’s played for like 9 teams. He’s our QB plain and simple bc the GM and HC are scared for their jobs. This is what we did last year playing Fitz WAYYYYY LONGER than we ever should have (we should have never resigned him). I wasn’t against McCown coming here with vet presence. But I’ve always been against playing a 39yr old QB on a rebuilding team. I was ok with playing him for 6-8 weeks. But we are at Week 11 now. It’s time for a change.

I never claimed he was some great QB but competent QB is going to help evaluate the rest of the team, I don't think you can argue that McCown hasn't been just that. I don't correlate Fitz to McCown because we are only paying McCown for the games he starts, if Hack or Petty could provide what McCown could provide wouldn't you think we'd want to save that money? There is also a reason McCown has been around for so long in the NFL, if he provided no benefit to a team he'd be out of the league. He know's he's a stop gap and has embraced that by signing the deal he did.

[JetsandI]

23 minutes ago, rdelaney89 said:

I never claimed he was some great QB but competent QB is going to help evaluate the rest of the team, I don't think you can argue that McCown hasn't been just that. I don't correlate Fitz to McCown because we are only paying McCown for the games he starts, if Hack or Petty could provide what McCown could provide wouldn't you think we'd want to save that money? There is also a reason McCown has been around for so long in the NFL, if he provided no benefit to a team he'd be out of the league. He know's he's a stop gap and has embraced that by signing the deal he did.

I am with you.  McCown stabilizing qb is helpful to team evaluation.  It is not all about sole qb. It is all about evaluating OL, RB and WR.  Hack or Petty struggling at qb won't improve Stewart and Hansen's development. Hell, Wesley Johnson at C too.   Packers were lucky with Brett Favre when Don Majkowski was hurt. Patriots were lucky with Tom Brady when Drew Bledsoe was hurt. Aaron Rodgers and Steve Young took forever to finally play HOF performances.  Complaining about qb will not improve Jets greatly. McCown has played well so let it be and let kids learn.

[KingOfNewYork]

31 minutes ago, JetsandI said:

I am with you.  McCown stabilizing qb is helpful to team evaluation.  It is not all about sole qb. It is all about evaluating OL, RB and WR.  Hack or Petty struggling at qb won't improve Stewart and Hansen's development. Hell, Wesley Johnson at C too.   Packers were lucky with Brett Favre when Don Majkowski was hurt. Patriots were lucky with Tom Brady when Drew Bledsoe was hurt. Aaron Rodgers and Steve Young took forever to finally play HOF performances.  Complaining about qb will not improve Jets greatly. McCown has played well so let it be and let kids learn.

So Hack and Petty developing doesn’t matter then? They can’t develop on the bench.

[rdelaney89]

1 hour ago, KingOfTheDot said:

So Hack and Petty developing doesn’t matter then? They can’t develop on the bench.

They are still under contract for next year. If they can't show enough in mini camp, training camp, preseason, or practices in the regular season to at least make it competitive no I don't believe live action would benefit them as much as it would hurt the rest of the team. If they had shown anything previously and they were upcoming FAs that we needed to decide if we were signing or not then by all means play them but no matter what they do we will be signing or drafting a QB high next year. Which will likely leave them as a potential 2nd or 3rd string option so to answer your question, no the development of a 2nd or 3rd string QB is not as critical as the other 50 players on the roster.

[Bobby816]

You can only develop so much without playing. And like I stated... these guys (mostly Hack) have all the skill in the world, they lack confidence more than anything. And the longer they’re on the bench the lower that confidence gets. 

[Bobby816]

I also am not just a Hack fanboy. I just think it’s his time to see what he can do. He has mental and physical tools to succeed in this league. He lacks confidence. And playing will give him that confidence back. He very well might loook awful. And that’s ok. Yes it would suck that be possibly wasted a 2nd round pick (we are used to that anyway), but at least we have the answer that he’s not the answer. We don’t play him and this team is the exact same from a franchise an perprpxtive going into next year. And if that’s the case Macc needs to be fired. That in 3 seasons his starting QBs have been Fitz twice and McCown. Plain and simple. That’s embarrassing for a franchise to play those guys for 3 seasons.

[GangGreen420]

3 hours ago, rdelaney89 said:

They are still under contract for next year. If they can't show enough in mini camp, training camp, preseason, or practices in the regular season to at least make it competitive no I don't believe live action would benefit them as much as it would hurt the rest of the team. If they had shown anything previously and they were upcoming FAs that we needed to decide if we were signing or not then by all means play them but no matter what they do we will be signing or drafting a QB high next year. Which will likely leave them as a potential 2nd or 3rd string option so to answer your question, no the development of a 2nd or 3rd string QB is not as critical as the other 50 players on the roster.

Well if you honestly believe that playing McCown is THAT imperative  and needs to happen to have a functional football team then we can agree to disagree. Sure the offensive line might have to make some adjustments for a young QB. Stewart and Hansen need more playing time anyway and that would be fine with a young QB. Who cares about the development of Kearse, Kerley, Powell, guys like that. We know what they are. Once we draft a QB or a monumental mistake like sign Cousins, that’s it for Hack. If we draft a rookie then one of Petty or Hack are most likely gone since this staff obviously doesn’t trust them. So it’s either McCown again or someone similar, the rookie, and one of Petty/Hack. If we were mathematically eliminated would you still want to play McCown?

 

[SDotNova]

When the Jets drafted Hack, most on this forum weren't happy with taking a player in the 2nd that required 2 or 3 years of coaching before seeing the field. But the general consensus was that he needed 2 or 3 years. He's currently in year 2. 

Ditto with Petty since he came from a non pro style offense (nothing with mechanics though unlike Hack). But some were saying that if he becomes a good backup QB, then it's a good pick since we got him in the 4th. There's a good chance he is a good backup QB.

Thought I would put some perspective of how most of us were thinking when we drafted these two players.

Personally, I think it's been beneficial to have McCown to date, but now it's time to get Petty in there for at least 3/4 games. If we see that he is nothing more than a backup QB, go with Hack for 2/3 games. We really have nothing to lose at this point. Losing to the Bucs cancels any minuscule chance we had to make a playoff run. 

[rdelaney89]

1 hour ago, GangGreen420 said:

Well if you honestly believe that playing McCown is THAT imperative  and needs to happen to have a functional football team then we can agree to disagree. Sure the offensive line might have to make some adjustments for a young QB. Stewart and Hansen need more playing time anyway and that would be fine with a young QB. Who cares about the development of Kearse, Kerley, Powell, guys like that. We know what they are. Once we draft a QB or a monumental mistake like sign Cousins, that’s it for Hack. If we draft a rookie then one of Petty or Hack are most likely gone since this staff obviously doesn’t trust them. So it’s either McCown again or someone similar, the rookie, and one of Petty/Hack. If we were mathematically eliminated would you still want to play McCown?

 

I think if it were close the Jets would play Petty or Hack which is why I'm disappointed. I have no problem bringing McCown back next year as the vet and hopefully we have a new QB to be the starter. We aren't really grading Powell or Kerley, I think Kearse was in trouble of being a cap casualty this offseason if he hadn't performed the way he has. I believe that trade was to clear cap from the Seahawks and net us that 2nd round pick. I think he has benefitted from McCown. I think the main grades we were looking for were Shell/Johnson/Beachum/Anderson/ASJ/Enunwa/, any of the young rookies, and to see how all the defensive players played when given a chance to rest on the sideline. Once we are mathematically eliminated I don't have a problem with them switching but that would be purely for the fans because I don't believe either one of them can show us enough to prevent us from signing or drafting our future QB this offseason.

[Bobby816]

Hack not being ready I think was overblown. He was a 3 year starter for a Big 10 school. How many Qbs play in the NE offense as a true freshman. Play 2 more years on top of that with arguably the worst OLine in NCAA those years and still have a good turnover margin. All while earning the respect of his teammates and never talking bad about anyone? Now with 2 more years nearly if “learning” he’s more than ready to start. That’s not saying he will succeed. But it is saying it’s his time to start games at the NFL level.

[GangGreen420]

13 hours ago, rdelaney89 said:

I think if it were close the Jets would play Petty or Hack which is why I'm disappointed. I have no problem bringing McCown back next year as the vet and hopefully we have a new QB to be the starter. We aren't really grading Powell or Kerley, I think Kearse was in trouble of being a cap casualty this offseason if he hadn't performed the way he has. I believe that trade was to clear cap from the Seahawks and net us that 2nd round pick. I think he has benefitted from McCown. I think the main grades we were looking for were Shell/Johnson/Beachum/Anderson/ASJ/Enunwa/, any of the young rookies, and to see how all the defensive players played when given a chance to rest on the sideline. Once we are mathematically eliminated I don't have a problem with them switching but that would be purely for the fans because I don't believe either one of them can show us enough to prevent us from signing or drafting our future QB this offseason.

See, there is no difference making the change now compared to when we are mathematically eliminated. None. This team has absolutely no shot at the post season.

[rdelaney89]

4 hours ago, GangGreen420 said:

See, there is no difference making the change now compared to when we are mathematically eliminated. None. This team has absolutely no shot at the post season.

Don't get me wrong I'm not gambling on us making any sort of playoff run but I think there are players that benefit from competent QB play. If the coaches think they have seen everything they need to out of all the other positions then they should play Hack or Petty. I'd like to see if Hansen or Stewart can show us anything and I'm not sure we'd get any valuable info with either of those 2 QBs in there.

[Jag68Sid87]

Why should we play Hackenberg or Petty? So we could get false hope that we actually don't need another QB?

If we play the whole season with McCown at QB, then at least management knows we need a QB. The LAST thing we need is for Petty or Hack to show something late this season and give management the idea that we have our QB. Now THAT would set us back for years once again.

I don't care what people here are saying, this season is NOT a total waste of time. As has been mentioned ad nauseum already, there is more than one position to develop on a football team. And so far in 2017, we seem to be developing quite a few players for next season and beyond...led by the two safeties, the two inside linebackers, Claiborne, most of the O-line, Seferian-Jenkins, Anderson and McGuire. Would Seferian-Jenkins be developing right now if he were catching balls from Hackenberg? Would Anderson be establishing himself as a deep threat if Hackenberg were under center? Would the O-line have held up as well with a rookie under center?

Would John Morton have emerged as a quality OC with a clueless QB under center?

I prefer to view the positives of this season (so far). We were supposed to be laughable. We have been anything but. 

Add a young QB, an edge rusher, a running back and Enunwa to what we already have now, and I dare say we might just be on the right track for the first time in a very long time.

 

 

[SDotNova]

8 hours ago, Jag68Sid87 said:

Why should we play Hackenberg or Petty? So we could get false hope that we actually don't need another QB?

If we play the whole season with McCown at QB, then at least management knows we need a QB. The LAST thing we need is for Petty or Hack to show something late this season and give management the idea that we have our QB. Now THAT would set us back for years once again.

I don't care what people here are saying, this season is NOT a total waste of time. As has been mentioned ad nauseum already, there is more than one position to develop on a football team. And so far in 2017, we seem to be developing quite a few players for next season and beyond...led by the two safeties, the two inside linebackers, Claiborne, most of the O-line, Seferian-Jenkins, Anderson and McGuire. Would Seferian-Jenkins be developing right now if he were catching balls from Hackenberg? Would Anderson be establishing himself as a deep threat if Hackenberg were under center? Would the O-line have held up as well with a rookie under center?

Would John Morton have emerged as a quality OC with a clueless QB under center?

I prefer to view the positives of this season (so far). We were supposed to be laughable. We have been anything but. 

Add a young QB, an edge rusher, a running back and Enunwa to what we already have now, and I dare say we might just be on the right track for the first time in a very long time.

 

 

Amen! Well said.

i didn't even think of the Morton part of it. Good point. 

We are on the right track for sure.