Rockice_8 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, doumeyer said: I said yesterday that we should explore all options, and so did Bobby 316. But we should still play Hack & Petty for the reason I said yesterday. Bowles might be a good defensive coach but he is one lousy head coach, and he is the last guy you want in front of a microphone. As far as McCown, goes he has done the job without much talent around him. The only thing I don't want is to have two wasted years with Fitz & two years with Mc Cown. Because I have not faith in Mac when it comes to drafting, how he got away with giving away that third round pick we got when Snack left last draft for nothing is beyond me. That also shows what kind of ownership we have, Woody Johnson what a joke. I can't see how you can say Bowles has been awful when the team is playing hard and staying competitive with little talent. The guy isn't a miracle worker, he has no talent at the most important positions. McCown has been pretty bad which is why it speaks volumes about Hack and Petty not being able to beat him out. Why is he the last guy you want in front of a mic? He's like half the coaches in the NFL now, he gives generic answers and is boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doumeyer Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 10 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said: I can't see how you can say Bowles has been awful when the team is playing hard and staying competitive with little talent. The guy isn't a miracle worker, he has no talent at the most important positions. McCown has been pretty bad which is why it speaks volumes about Hack and Petty not being able to beat him out. Why is he the last guy you want in front of a mic? He's like half the coaches in the NFL now, he gives generic answers and is boring. The surprising thing is, Mc Cown, considering the talent he has to work with has done a good job, I don't think anybody will argue that, but he is not our future at 39 years old. Bowles first played Fitz you two years now he will play McCown for two years. Somebody has to be blamed for the mess the Jets are in, is it Mac for his lousy drafting, and we all know his draft picks. Or is it Bowles for his horrible coaching in the game that the Bill knock us out of the playoff with. And not making adjustments at half time in several games, like Sunday in Tampa. It is up to Woody Johnson to find out who is at fault for the Jets current state of affairs, but we all know Woody ( who is a nice man ) however he is lost in space some where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 2 hours ago, rdelaney89 said: Answer me this: Is there anything at this point that Hack or Petty can do to prevent us from looking at a QB this offseason? If the answer is no then you need to play the best QB. Say what you want about McCown but for the most part he's been pretty effective, far more than either Hack or Petty were against vanilla defenses in preseason. I think we can confidently say we need a Center, a WR/RB, a Pass Rusher and of course a QB. I still like the idea of signing Cousins if he hits FA and then going BPA at those positions of need. Alex Smith was 29 when he went to the Chiefs and only had 1 good year, Cousins (30) will have 3 top 5 QB seasons in a row and has gone through 3 OCs and 2 HCs in his career. He's still putting up great numbers this year after losing a lot of his weapons and an OL riddled with injuries. Consistency and ability to overcome adversity are 2 attributes that are needed especially in a NY market where coaches tend to come under fire week in and week out. It's not unthinkable to expect 5-6 years good-great years out of him and then potentially up to 10 years of above average QB play. I think we'd be foolish to at the very least explore him as an option. This team isn’t making the playoffs. I hate to ruin that pipe dream for you. So it’s not about putting the best an out there to win games. The Giants will be playing Davis Webb soon. Does he give them a better chance to win than Eli? Gosh No. But he helps them give insight to their QB situation down the road. Did Goff give the Rams the best chance to win the last 6 games of last season? No. But they needed to give him some action before starting him maybe this season. And look how good that’s done for him. He was awful in his action for the most part last season. So yes by all means I want us to play Hack regardless if he looks bad or not. If nothing else it answers the question that we don’t have our qb on this roster. You have no clue until you play them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdelaney89 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 1 hour ago, doumeyer said: I said yesterday that we should explore all options, and so did Bobby 316. But we should still play Hack & Petty for the reason I said yesterday. Bowles might be a good defensive coach but he is one lousy head coach, and he is the last guy you want in front of a microphone. As far as McCown, goes he has done the job without much talent around him. The only thing I don't want is to have two wasted years with Fitz & two years with Mc Cown. Because I have not faith in Mac when it comes to drafting, how he got away with giving away that third round pick we got when Snack left last draft for nothing is beyond me. That also shows what kind of ownership we have, Woody Johnson what a joke. I agree but you are comparing apples to oranges. Yes both QB's are older and not long term options but the rosters are drastically different. It's abundantly clear that this team went with a youth movement across the board, they gave the young QBs every opportunity to show some sort of promise. McCown played one series all preseason, all Hack had to do was show he could somewhat lead the offense and he couldn't even do that. As a coach if you aren't doing everything in your power to win games why should the players give everything they have to win games. You need to play the best player. From a fan perspective yea I'd love to see Hack or Petty play but that is waving the white flag to the rest of the team if they didn't earn the spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdelaney89 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, Bobby816 said: This team isn’t making the playoffs. I hate to ruin that pipe dream for you. So it’s not about putting the best an out there to win games. The Giants will be playing Davis Webb soon. Does he give them a better chance to win than Eli? Gosh No. But he helps them give insight to their QB situation down the road. Did Goff give the Rams the best chance to win the last 6 games of last season? No. But they needed to give him some action before starting him maybe this season. And look how good that’s done for him. He was awful in his action for the most part last season. So yes by all means I want us to play Hack regardless if he looks bad or not. If nothing else it answers the question that we don’t have our qb on this roster. You have no clue until you play them. Where in my post did I remotely say we'd be going or sniffing the playoffs??? The coaching staff has seen Hack play, they gave him literally every opportunity to win the job in preseason. They gave McCown 1 drive and Hack couldn't show anything. As a fan I 100% agree I'd rather Petty or Hack play than McCown but you can't ask players to give 100% if the coach isn't playing the best player. Why risk injury? That's why the Giants are so bad and it's why the Jets were so bad last year. Players are trying to protect themselves and don't give 100%. If Hack can't win the job from McCown then I don't need to see him play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 20 minutes ago, rdelaney89 said: Where in my post did I remotely say we'd be going or sniffing the playoffs??? The coaching staff has seen Hack play, they gave him literally every opportunity to win the job in preseason. They gave McCown 1 drive and Hack couldn't show anything. As a fan I 100% agree I'd rather Petty or Hack play than McCown but you can't ask players to give 100% if the coach isn't playing the best player. Why risk injury? That's why the Giants are so bad and it's why the Jets were so bad last year. Players are trying to protect themselves and don't give 100%. If Hack can't win the job from McCown then I don't need to see him play. At certain point it’s not about putting the best players out there to win. It’s about seeing what you have on your roster. And the players understand that. So if Mo doesn’t give 100% who cares? He doesn’t give 100% when mccown is in either. But every player on our offense isn’t proven and needs to prove themselves still so they’d give 100% for Hack. On defense we have tons of young guys still fighting. It’s literalky just Mo who would not give his all maybe. And I think it’s abdokutrly hilarious to decide the Hack isn’t good based on some pre season games. Like I stated (which of course you ignored) Goff was awful last year in preseason and in the regular season. And look at him this year. Same can be said for Wentz. He didn’t look good last year either. But those games made him better. We can’t expect a guy to get better by not playing for years. He very well might just be bad. But it’s even dumber to not find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdelaney89 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 10 minutes ago, Bobby816 said: At certain point it’s not about putting the best players out there to win. It’s about seeing what you have on your roster. And the players understand that. So if Mo doesn’t give 100% who cares? He doesn’t give 100% when mccown is in either. But every player on our offense isn’t proven and needs to prove themselves still so they’d give 100% for Hack. On defense we have tons of young guys still fighting. It’s literalky just Mo who would not give his all maybe. And I think it’s abdokutrly hilarious to decide the Hack isn’t good based on some pre season games. Like I stated (which of course you ignored) Goff was awful last year in preseason and in the regular season. And look at him this year. Same can be said for Wentz. He didn’t look good last year either. But those games made him better. We can’t expect a guy to get better by not playing for years. He very well might just be bad. But it’s even dumber to not find out. I agree this roster is much better suited for staying competitive than last years roster. However the coaches have had the whole season and all of last year to figure out what they have in Hack. The coaches see these players all the time so they know if they have a command of the offense. If Hack showed any promise in practice he'd be playing. My only point is: is there anything that Hack can show you to prevent you from looking at QBs this offseason? I don't care how good Hack or Petty could potentially look in these last few games, I'm not going to ignore the QB position no matter what they do. Both players are under contract for next season so there is no reason to play them and not get an acurate grade on the rest of the team. The whole point of playing McCown is 1) he's the best QB on the team and 2) it allows the team to install the offense with a bunch of young players. If Hack or Petty stinks it up the coaching staff won't be able to accurately grade the other players on the team. We'll see Hack again, probably the last 3-4 game or so plus next season. As a fan, yes I completely agree play Hack/Petty. Imagine you are good at your job but then you are demoted because there is a younger person behind you. That worker hasn't shown any reason to instill confidence from the company and is handed the lead roll. There would be resentment from the rest of the employees because that person did not earn their place like everyone had to. Goff and Wentz were #1 and #2 picks that teams gave up multiple picks to acquire. Hack was selected in the 2nd with nothing else invested; right or wrong that is the reason Goff and Wentz have a much longer leash than Hack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreen420 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 So has anyone floated the idea that we should sign Tyrod Taylor next year? Amazing that the Bills are benching him and we have no inclination to even consider benching McCown. This franchise is miserable. Petty and Hack are so bad it’s either an indictment on Mac or Bowles is so stubborn it’s a bad situation to be in either way. But to not even consider giving these young guys a look now and say things like “I got to look at them in camp” is a bad, bad sign. The players aren’t stupid either guys. They aren’t going to incite a riot because we play Petty. Give me a break Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdelaney89 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 34 minutes ago, GangGreen420 said: So has anyone floated the idea that we should sign Tyrod Taylor next year? Amazing that the Bills are benching him and we have no inclination to even consider benching McCown. This franchise is miserable. Petty and Hack are so bad it’s either an indictment on Mac or Bowles is so stubborn it’s a bad situation to be in either way. But to not even consider giving these young guys a look now and say things like “I got to look at them in camp” is a bad, bad sign. The players aren’t stupid either guys. They aren’t going to incite a riot because we play Petty. Give me a break Taylor's stats are flashy but he hurts to watch play. I'd rather Mac and Bowles admit they made bad picks with Petty and Hack than waste more time playing them when we can focus on the development of the rest of the team. McCown can communicate coverages and blitz's to help the OL with protection and the WRs/TEs/RBs with audibles. See the Robby touchdown from the other day, that was because McCown saw the coverage and Robby adjusted his route. I'm not saying McCown has any sort of future but if he helps us grade the rest of the team that is a positive. With the way we went 3 & out with Hack/Petty we would not only have no grades on the rest of the team but the defense would be even more gassed than they already are. In short - make the players that will play with our future QB better than wasting time on QB's we've already deemed as "not the guy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Who on our offense is making huge strides bc McCown is at QB? Anderson? He was making strides with Petty at qb last season. Stewart and Hanson aren’t playing. McGuire barely plays. ASJ I think is succeeding more bc if the system than that of McCown. Shell looked great while Petty was at QB last season. So I’m missing your point on how McCown is making all these guys better. He’s averaging throwing for just a tad over 200yds a game and about 1.4 TDs a game. He’s not messing up more so than he’s making our players better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.O Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 All our QBs are irrelevant , We're meh with McCown and we would be god awful with Petty/Hack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdelaney89 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 25 minutes ago, Bobby816 said: Who on our offense is making huge strides bc McCown is at QB? Anderson? He was making strides with Petty at qb last season. Stewart and Hanson aren’t playing. McGuire barely plays. ASJ I think is succeeding more bc if the system than that of McCown. Shell looked great while Petty was at QB last season. So I’m missing your point on how McCown is making all these guys better. He’s averaging throwing for just a tad over 200yds a game and about 1.4 TDs a game. He’s not messing up more so than he’s making our players better. Huge strides? seems to be asking a lot for that don't you think given the roster? I think the OL looks far better with McCown this season than it looked under 4 games with Hack against backups. Anderson and ASJ both look like players. If Hack was in there calling the wrong protections then we'd had zero read on our OL. There is a correlation between Hack consistently going 3 & out like preseason and a terrible grade for our defense. We at least know that our LBs are playing good ball & the secondary outside of skrine is promising. I'm more sure of the positions we need because McCown has been playing than I'd be if Hack or Petty were in there. When we get to the last 4 games, sure give them a shot but I can't blame the evaluation process. (which is what this season was all about) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsandI Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 I love the fact that Bills quit first. Unless, of course, Peterson lights up like hell. Jets are not out of playoff mix yet so McCown stays starting. Trying inexperienced qb against tough defense like Broncos, Chiefs and Panthers is purely stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doumeyer Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 6 hours ago, Bobby816 said: This team isn’t making the playoffs. I hate to ruin that pipe dream for you. So it’s not about putting the best an out there to win games. The Giants will be playing Davis Webb soon. Does he give them a better chance to win than Eli? Gosh No. But he helps them give insight to their QB situation down the road. Did Goff give the Rams the best chance to win the last 6 games of last season? No. But they needed to give him some action before starting him maybe this season. And look how good that’s done for him. He was awful in his action for the most part last season. So yes by all means I want us to play Hack regardless if he looks bad or not. If nothing else it answers the question that we don’t have our qb on this roster. You have no clue until you play them. Outstanding post, this is what I have been trying to say for months. This losing mentality has been in this franchise for many years, and their are people on this board that would rather sacrifice the future for two or three more wins this year. Look Mc Cown has done a good job, but he will never and has never won a big game in his 15 year or so career. We all know he will be back next year and it will be the same old thing, a losing team. Look at the La Rams last year their Qb, Goff and the rest of the team looked horrible, but they gave the kid a chance and look what he has done. Did the Cowboys give up after one bad year by Troy Aikman after his horrible first year. THIS IS THE BIG DIFFERENSTS BETWEEN THE STEELERS, COWBOYS & the NEW YORK JETS. They both have great front offices and ours suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreen420 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 4 hours ago, rdelaney89 said: Taylor's stats are flashy but he hurts to watch play. I'd rather Mac and Bowles admit they made bad picks with Petty and Hack than waste more time playing them when we can focus on the development of the rest of the team. McCown can communicate coverages and blitz's to help the OL with protection and the WRs/TEs/RBs with audibles. See the Robby touchdown from the other day, that was because McCown saw the coverage and Robby adjusted his route. I'm not saying McCown has any sort of future but if he helps us grade the rest of the team that is a positive. With the way we went 3 & out with Hack/Petty we would not only have no grades on the rest of the team but the defense would be even more gassed than they already are. In short - make the players that will play with our future QB better than wasting time on QB's we've already deemed as "not the guy" I get the logic behind this, but if they have already deemed Hackenberg as a complete failure, which it seems they have, then we may need a new GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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