BayRaider Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 Courtland Sutton vs Michael Thomas This will run for six days and end May 26th. For more information, check our the main Tournament Topic. There is no seeds and matchups were randomized. At the end of the Tournament, one man will be crowned FootballsFuture's Official Top WR in the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted May 20, 2021 Author Share Posted May 20, 2021 Before the 2020 season, I had Michael Thomas as my #1 WR in the NFL. At this point, he is #5 behind Stefon Diggs, Davante Adams, DeAndre Hopkins, and Tyreek Hill (I have these four in no specific order). I'm just concerned he might not get back to the player he was. Seems his injury was more serious than thought. Every time he stepped on the field, he looked like a shell of his former self. Like, legit did not even look like the same guy. Perhaps it was all injury related, he fully heals, and dominates this year. However, I am highly concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notthatbluestuff Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 I'm greatly looking forward to watching Sutton develop but based on what we've seen so far, Thomas has to be the choice here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 People voted for Sutton lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 (edited) I love Thomas, but I think he is somewhat limited. Hes a great possession guy and route runner with sure hands but lacks explosive traits. I think a lot of his production is sort of skewed given he plays with Brees and eats people alive on short/intermediate timing routes. I would say Sutton is the more physically talented WR with a higher ceiling that can survive poor QB play. Would love to see the season he could put up with a top 15 QB. He is a downfield, jumpball, redzone nightmare but does lack precise route running ability. I think its more likely Sutton develops into a better route runner and becomes elite elite than Thomas developing into a explosive play threat where his game will always be somewhat limited. Right Now: Thomas Future: Sutton Edited May 24, 2021 by AkronsWitness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 What does "higher ceiling" for Sutton mean when Thomas literally had one of the best seasons by a WR in NFL history in 2019 (2nd WR to ever win OPOY with Jerry Rice being the other)? I'd also reiterate that during that season, he played almost half the season with Teddy Bridgewater as his QB. In other words, he is not dependent on Brees for his elite production. Just to hammer home how significant the gap is between these 2 players. Michael Thomas in just 2019 almost matched Sutton's entire career statistically in most of the major stat categories. Why does it matter if Sutton is the "better athlete". There's plenty of better athletes at WR than guys like Jerry Rice, Cris Carter, DeAndre Hopkins, Michael Thomas, etc. Give me the guy with years of elite production that over the first 5 years of his career has been historically good...Over a guy that has barely pulled off a 1,000 yard season in his first 3 seasons in the NFL. I'm not even convinced Sutton is the most talented WR on his team. Saying he belongs in a discussion with Michael Thomas is absurd. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutler06 Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 11 hours ago, tyler735 said: What does "higher ceiling" for Sutton mean when Thomas literally had one of the best seasons by a WR in NFL history in 2019 (2nd WR to ever win OPOY with Jerry Rice being the other)? I'd also reiterate that during that season, he played almost half the season with Teddy Bridgewater as his QB. In other words, he is not dependent on Brees for his elite production. Just to hammer home how significant the gap is between these 2 players. Michael Thomas in just 2019 almost matched Sutton's entire career statistically in most of the major stat categories. Why does it matter if Sutton is the "better athlete". There's plenty of better athletes at WR than guys like Jerry Rice, Cris Carter, DeAndre Hopkins, Michael Thomas, etc. Give me the guy with years of elite production that over the first 5 years of his career has been historically good...Over a guy that has barely pulled off a 1,000 yard season in his first 3 seasons in the NFL. I'm not even convinced Sutton is the most talented WR on his team. Saying he belongs in a discussion with Michael Thomas is absurd. Without one of the best QB's in the league throwing to him, but that won't be the case for that now will it. Although, if Lock doesn't take a step forward, the level of QB play becomes comparable....LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, tyler735 said: What does "higher ceiling" for Sutton mean when Thomas literally had one of the best seasons by a WR in NFL history in 2019 (2nd WR to ever win OPOY with Jerry Rice being the other)? I'd also reiterate that during that season, he played almost half the season with Teddy Bridgewater as his QB. In other words, he is not dependent on Brees for his elite production. Just to hammer home how significant the gap is between these 2 players. Michael Thomas in just 2019 almost matched Sutton's entire career statistically in most of the major stat categories. Why does it matter if Sutton is the "better athlete". There's plenty of better athletes at WR than guys like Jerry Rice, Cris Carter, DeAndre Hopkins, Michael Thomas, etc. Give me the guy with years of elite production that over the first 5 years of his career has been historically good...Over a guy that has barely pulled off a 1,000 yard season in his first 3 seasons in the NFL. I'm not even convinced Sutton is the most talented WR on his team. Saying he belongs in a discussion with Michael Thomas is absurd. Ill say it again, I think a lot of Thomas' production comes from playing in the system he is in with the QB he plays with. Hes incredibly talented but he lacks downfield ability. I also say that because in that season 2 years ago he had 185 targets from Brees. 185. Thats absurd. To compare that, in the same year--Sutton played with 3 different starting QBs and had 124 targets. 60 less than Thomas had and STILL put up 1,110 yards receiving. Point is, if you balance everything out, give them both the same level of QB and the same amount of targets--I think Sutton does more with his than Thomas does because he is just simply more of a explosive WR and playmaker. Thomas is a much better possession guy. Edited May 25, 2021 by AkronsWitness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 Just now, Cutler06 said: Without one of the best QB's in the league throwing to him, but that won't be the case for that now will it. Although, if Lock doesn't take a step forward, the level of QB play becomes comparable....LOL Thomas played 6 games with Bridgewater throwing to him in his historic 2019 season where he was regarded by many as the top WR in the NFL and won Offensive Player of the Year that season. In those 6 games, Thomas had 52 catches, 640 receiving yards and 3 touchdowns with Bridgewater throwing to him. Or if we took those numbers with Bridgewater throwing to him and averaged them out over a full season: 139 receptions, 1,707 receiving yards, 8 touchdowns Michael Thomas is an elite WR regardless of who is throwing to him. He doesn't have to be a great deep threat with how dominant he is in the short/intermediate game. His route running, physicality, and hands more than make up for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, tyler735 said: Thomas played 6 games with Bridgewater throwing to him in his historic 2019 season where he was regarded by many as the top WR in the NFL and won Offensive Player of the Year that season. In those 6 games, Thomas had 52 catches, 640 receiving yards and 3 touchdowns with Bridgewater throwing to him. Or if we took those numbers with Bridgewater throwing to him and averaged them out over a full season: 139 receptions, 1,707 receiving yards, 8 touchdowns Michael Thomas is an elite WR regardless of who is throwing to him. He doesn't have to be a great deep threat with how dominant he is in the short/intermediate game. His route running, physicality, and hands more than make up for it. To be fair, Bridgwater played incredibly well that stint to the point where it got him a starting gig in Carolina. Sutton was rotating between Joe Flacco, Drew Lock and Brandon Allen. I also agree about your last point. Im not saying he isnt incredible. Im just saying there are times where you need somebody who can stretch the field and pose that over-the-top threat that Thomas doesnt have. Im a OSU fan, trust me lol Its literally the reason he fell to the 2nd round because he didnt even make plays downfield at OSU. That was all Devin Smith and Thomas was the possession guy. Edited May 25, 2021 by AkronsWitness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 1 minute ago, AkronsWitness said: To be fair, Bridgwater played incredibly well that stint to the point where it got him a starting gig in Carolina. Sutton was rotating between Joe Flacco, Drew Lock and Brandon Allen. As a Saints fan, I can only partially agree with this. The first bunch of games of that 6 game stretch, Bridgewater played pretty timid and not particularly good by any means. The last 2 games, he started to get more comfortable in the offense and played pretty well looking more confident taking more chances throwing the football. There's really no way around it though, Michael Thomas put the team on his back in 2019 and was pretty much the main reason our offense played as well as they did that season. Given both Brees and Kamara weren't healthy most of the year and playing through injuries. 1 minute ago, AkronsWitness said: I also agree about your last point. Im not saying he isnt incredible. Im just saying there are times where you need somebody who can stretch the field and pose that over-the-top threat that Thomas doesnt have. Im a OSU fan, trust me lol Its literally the reason he fell to the 2nd round because he didnt even make plays downfield at OSU. Yeah that's not his game. He just dominates everywhere else on the field. It's like Derrick Henry, he's limited in what he can do at RB in today's NFL, but absolutely dominates running the ball even though he provides very little in the receiving game. Both players put up insane production even with some limitations to their game, which I think makes both players elite at their respective positions. I just don't see how we are comparing a guy that has been historically good to start his career, that has had 100+ yard receiving games with 3 different QB's throwing to him, has won an Offensive Player of the Year award, that many have regarded as a top 3 or even best WR in the league in the past year. With a guy that has flashed potential to maybe someday be regarded as a top 10 WR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted May 26, 2021 Author Share Posted May 26, 2021 Congratulations to Michael Thomas for winning this round in dominant fashion 36-7 and moving on to Round 2! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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