ET80 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 2 minutes ago, .Buzz said: As I said, BOB the coach I wouldn’t mind. But I have zero idea how someone who’s so stubborn like BOB would work well with someone like Baalke. If Baalke was shown the door and they hired BOB with a new GM (and BOB didn’t have personnel control), he’d be fine. ... I'll be here to tell you "I told you so" when it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agarcia34 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Just now, ET80 said: Incorrect. BoB feasted on a bad division, he'd go 6-0 in division and 3-7 out of division. As soon as Tennessee/Indianapolis brought in more competent coaching and players, BoB started to lose. BoB is the Urban Meyer of NFL HCs - overwhelmed inferior talent by relying on guys playing at a HoF level. It's not hard to go 9-7 against two 3-13 quality teams and a Colts team without Andrew Luck, while JJ Watt, Deshaun Watson and DeAndre Hopkins played at All Pro levels. Please remind me who were his QBs for the playoff teams before Watson? 15 and 16. Can say he feasted on a weak division but dude wasn’t working with the greatest QBs as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Just now, ET80 said: ... I'll be here to tell you "I told you so" when it happens. I’m not arguing he’s a fantastic coach. I get the venom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 1 minute ago, agarcia34 said: Please remind me who were his QBs for the playoff teams before Watson? 15 and 16. Can say he feasted on a weak division but dude wasn’t working with the greatest QBs as well. QBs HE brought in, mind you. He's the one who chose Brian Hoyer over Ryan Fitzpatrick, he's the one who signed off on paying Brock Osweiler $36mm gtd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 10 minutes ago, .Buzz said: I’m not arguing he’s a fantastic coach. I get the venom. There are much better options available, don't get suckered into the same trap BoB put everyone in from 2014 to 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 10 minutes ago, ET80 said: There are much better options available, don't get suckered into the same trap BoB put everyone in from 2014 to 2016. Like I said, I agree. All I’m saying is I think his name/GM BoB plays a big role in where his name stands. He wouldn’t excite me at all. But I do think if he came in here with zero personnel control he’d be a positive direction/arguably the best HC we’ve had since JDR. That’s the sad state of affairs this franchise is in. His work while at Penn State to get Hackenberg looked at the way he did, to Watson in HOU, to Bryce Young winning a heisman and him being the OC there. I’d feel at least some optimism towards at least putting Lawrence in a feasible situation for success/putting a solid scheme/staff to help develop him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notthatbluestuff Posted January 7, 2022 Author Share Posted January 7, 2022 If the Jags land BoB then Lawrence has no excuses. As ET rightly said, BoB had Hopkins, Watson and Watt playing at All-Pro levels; clearly a talented coach. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 10 minutes ago, .Buzz said: He wouldn’t excite me at all. But I do think if he came in here with zero personnel control he’d be a positive direction/arguably the best HC we’ve had since JDR. That’s the sad state of affairs this franchise is in. I will *reluctantly* agree to this. 10 minutes ago, .Buzz said: His work while at Penn State to get Hackenberg looked at the way he did, to Watson in HOU, to Bryce Young winning a heisman and him being the OC there. Serious question - did Hackenberg really look good when BoB was his coach? Sub 60% completion rate, 2:1 TD/INT ratio? What made him stand out? In hindsight, I think Christian Hackenberg was the exact same player he was as a Fr during his Soph and Jr year... The "freshman phenom" talk came up because he could spin the ball (that's a fact, Hack had some serious arm talent) and that he took a Penn State team on the heels of the biggest controversy in *sports history* to a relatively competetive record. As far as Watson and Young - I mean, they were good QBs out of the box. Might as well add Tom Brady to that list if we're going there. It would take an Urban Meyer level of incompetence to mess with QBs of this caliber. BoB is a good QB coach... if he has a good QB to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 4 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said: As ET rightly said, BoB had Hopkins, Watson and Watt playing at All-Pro levels; clearly a talented coach. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 2 minutes ago, ET80 said: I will *reluctantly* agree to this. Serious question - did Hackenberg really look good when BoB was his coach? Sub 60% completion rate, 2:1 TD/INT ratio? What made him stand out? In hindsight, I think Christian Hackenberg was the exact same player he was as a Fr during his Soph and Jr year... As far as Watson and Young - I mean, they were good QBs out of the box. Might as well add Tom Brady to that list if we're going there. It would take an Urban Meyer level of incompetence to mess with QBs of this caliber. BoB is a good QB coach... if he has a good QB to begin with. Yeah Hackenberg isn’t a great example, I’ve talked with pwny about that. But he still was lauded as a legit elite QB prospect/the next big thing I feel like while BoB was there. He left and everything fell off the rails if I remember right. As far as the latter, that’s the whole point. We have a QB in place that’s very talented and entrenched. Would be a much different conversation if we had Minshew and went into a draft like this with no legit QB prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Just now, .Buzz said: Yeah Hackenberg isn’t a great example, I’ve talked with pwny about that. But he still was lauded as a legit elite QB prospect/the next big thing I feel like while BoB was there. I made a quick edit (you beat me to the punch) that encapsulates why I think Hack was as hyped as he was back then. In short... it was narrative over substance. 1 minute ago, .Buzz said: As far as the latter, that’s the whole point. We have a QB in place that’s very talented and entrenched. Would be a much different conversation if we had Minshew and went into a draft like this with no legit QB prospects. I guess I can concede this, too. I'd be worried a little bit about stagnation - which is sort of what happened to Watson until BoB got fired two seasons ago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 5 minutes ago, ET80 said: I made a quick edit (you beat me to the punch) that encapsulates why I think Hack was as hyped as he was back then. In short... it was narrative over substance. I guess I can concede this, too. I'd be worried a little bit about stagnation - which is sort of what happened to Watson until BoB got fired two seasons ago. Buddy, I will take stagnation if it means Lawrence looks like a legit top 10-12 QB next year and worry about the latter down the road. From your perspective I get it. You watched the man coach for a long period of time and he clearly has warts (as most do). Just feel like we’re at different points/expectations. I’d still take Pederson or Caldwell in a landslide, and even prefer to take another chance on a highly touted OC like Kellen Moore, but I don’t think he’s a bad option for where this team is and what’s needed for Trevor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Just now, .Buzz said: Buddy, I will take stagnation if it means Lawrence looks like a legit top 10-12 QB next year. From your perspective I get it. You watched the man coach for a long period of time and he clearly has warts (as most do). Just feel like we’re at different points/expectations. I’d still take Pederson or Caldwell in a landslide, and even prefer to take another chance on a highly touted OC like Kellen Moore, but I don’t think he’s a bad option for where this team is and what’s needed for Trevor. Is there any sort of push for Byron Leftwich? I think he's done a pretty solid job in TB as the OC, and while the ties to the organization might no longer be in place with Shad instead of Wayne Huizenga (so?) the name still evokes some memory. I've got to think Leftwich got as much out of coaching Tom Brady as Brady got out of being "coached" by Leftwich. Is he a legitimate candidate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 5 minutes ago, ET80 said: Is there any sort of push for Byron Leftwich? I think he's done a pretty solid job in TB as the OC, and while the ties to the organization might no longer be in place with Shad instead of Wayne Huizenga (so?) the name still evokes some memory. I've got to think Leftwich got as much out of coaching Tom Brady as Brady got out of being "coached" by Leftwich. Is he a legitimate candidate? He is. I believe Glazer reported there was a “groundswell” of support in JAX a couple weeks ago. He’s right there with Moore for me. The hesitation for both is if Baalke stays for me. I think you need a strong minded HC who’s been around the block if he’s retained. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 15 minutes ago, .Buzz said: From your perspective I get it. You watched the man coach for a long period of time and he clearly has warts (as most do). Just feel like we’re at different points/expectations. I'll address this as such - if he was a contender for an OC/Assistant HC position, I'd probably endorse it in a vacuum. He had his strengths, he gets QBs to play well and he has a knack for getting a run game going regardless of who is his RB. BoB is a good offensive mind - however, nobody is hiring him to be an OC, they're hiring him to be a HC, which involves a lot of in-game decisions that he consistently demonstrated to be below average at. Nothing better illustrates this than the fake punt vs KC in the playoffs. That one is the cherry on top, he's got an entire binder full of "WTF!?" decisions like that other games (that one stands out as the biggest one because it was on the biggest stage he's ever been on - but every Texans fan will have a story of a baffling BoB decision in the middle of a game). As long as your expectations are low (as in, an eyelash above Urban Meyer) you're okay... I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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