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DoleINGout

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40 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

We have a draft thread with plenty of discussion of players who fit the Patriots needs. How about already established NFL guys? Either through trades or free agency, there are always some gems to be found.

Come on @DoleINGout your better than that. Where's the list!!!ūüėĀ

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At wide receiver I like the idea of targeting Zay Jones and Mac's former 'Bama teammate Cam Sims on reasonable 2-3 year deals to upgrade from Agholor/Meyers. Olamide Zaccheaus is a RFA with the Falcons that I like a fair amount so definitely someone to watch for if anyone at this position in restricted free agency. Chris Moore of the Texans might be considered a fine #4/5 to bring in if the Patriots basically gut their entire receiver room outside of Bourne this year.

Calvin Ridley via trade and Braxton Berrios in free agency would pair well with Kendrick Bourne. Berrios is a good kick returner and seemingly an ascending slot receiver who is a former Pats draft pick. Ridley will likely not happen since he is under contract and acquiring him is going to require the Patriots to be very competitive with what they offer. Ridley isn't out of the question but the likelihood is less than one of these other unrestricted free agents that don't drain the Pats as much of money or players. If there is any other 'splash' receiver to expect the Pats pursue it should be none other than Christian Kirk. Great game-breaking speed and niftiness in the slot to be a difference maker at a relatively very fair cost. I think Kirk, if not franchised by the Cardinals, will likely be the biggest target of the Patriots this offseason in terms of name, contract, and skill.

Isaiah McKenzie with the Bills is a good option but probably would require an overpay within the division on the inferior Patriots. A more feasible bet to join the Pats on a reasonable deal is a former divisional opponent is Jakeem Grant who profiles similarly to McKenzie as a returner and speedster on offense. A slightly more viable receiver than Grant who is also reliable/smart/explosive/consistent at returning kicks, (like Berrios and McKenzie also), is WFT's Deandre Carter. 

 

Upgrades, but not the best investments due to $$/injury/age, (a la Agholor last year), are:

Russell Gage

Demarcus Robinson

Byron Pringle

Zach Pascal

Allen Lazard

Adam Humphries

DJ Chark

Cedrick Wilson

Albert Wilson

Emmanuel Sanders

TY Hilton

JuJu Smith-Schuster

Mike Williams

Jamison Crowder

AJ Green

Josh Reynolds

DeSean Jackson

Allen Robinson

Chris Godwin

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Random Thoughts on the topic:

 

Trades: 

  • Calvin Ridley
    • I'm not interested, i think the cost will be too high.. and there will be inherent risk involved given that he didn't play most of last season. The cost would have to be very low for BB to do it imo¬†
  • Andy Isabella
    • he is wasting away on that roster.. they are losing AJ Green.. BB could convince him to try out a Harry for Isabella swap and it would likely work out best for both teams. Isabella is a guy who you can bring in with no expectations and let him fight it out for the slot position in camp¬†
  • Isaiah Wynn
    • I think he should be shopped .. i have no idea what you could get for him.. but if you could get a 3rd rounder id be very happy. I would much rather pay Trent Brown 11M for a year to be the LT .. or even draft a replacement and let him take over mid year with Herron starting till they are ready¬†

Re-Signings:

  • Ted Karras
    • he seems like such a good option to sign to a 2-3 year deal. He could start at LG for a couple years and BB could keep drafting guys in the 5-7th rounds to develop and replace him. This would allow Onwenu to go back to RT and either let Trent go or sign trent to a deal to play LT and trade Wynn. Either way with Karras you can save a significant amount of money and he's a solid starter.
  • James White
    • If he is fully recovered, it's a no brainer to sign him. If they felt JJ was the answer, he would have been allowed to play. I fully expect JJ to get cut next season¬†
  • JC Jackson¬†
    • BB wants a man defense.. due to that he needs 2 #1 corners.. so unless he's going to tag and trade JC for a 1st rounder to draft a CB.. he has to resign him. Otherwise this defense will fall apart with no corners¬†
  • Bentley¬†
    • I am ok with resigning him for cheap.. Captain, veteran, got much better this year but still very slow. If he's an early down guy and situationally doesn't play against Mobile QB's then I'm ok with it. I highly doubt BB would ever start a bunch of rookies / young guys next to Judon at LB.. he's going to want at least one more older guy
  • Devin McCourty
    • I would resign him if it's cheap and if it's guaranteed he isn't playing 90% of the snaps.. you've gotta reduce his snaps to like 50% so he is fresh throughout the season .. draft his replacement.. and have that draft pick attached to his hip for a year¬†
  • Trent Brown
    • I would honestly let him go unless he was willing to take a hometown discount .. i worry about injuries and wouldnt want to dedicate a lot of money / years on him.¬†

Free Agents: 

  • Isaiah McKenzie
    • 4.42 40 time, 6.6 3 cone .. he has all the stats to be a perfect Slot Patriot.. BB is also a big fan of signing guys from the division who shredded his team. He has been in the league for 4 years and never put it together though, so it's totally possible those games he had were all about the Patriots and not him.. but the potential is there. If you could sign him to a cheap deal and bring him into camp to fight it out for a spot I would be all for it. At minimum he could take Gunners spot but have some WR potential¬†
  • Joe Haden
    • If Cheap I could see BB bringing him in as 3rd cover / FS depth and move him around the field .. if he is in a more limited role he can likely still perform in that Jason McCourty role
  • Jimmy Smith
    • Same idea as Haden.. older guy but in limited role could help out.. especially if multiple DB's are drafted.. good to have a veteran presence assuming McCourty is gone
  • Will Fuller
    • Cheap, 1 yr deal... missed all last year.. if he is fully recovered, he is a fast option.. unlikely but someone to keep in mind¬†
  • Marcus Maye
    • Safety, 27 years old, within the division .. BB may see something in him that the Jets never got out of him¬†
  • Larry Ogunjobi
    • DT, big guy, 27 years old, could help run defense¬†
  • Quinton Jefferson
    • Same idea as larry, 28, a little smaller than Ogunjobi but could still potentially help run game¬†
  • Phillip Lindsay¬†
    • Underrated guy who is still young, can be a helpful passing back ( he did decent at that in Denver)¬†
  • Cordarelle Patterson
    • He will likely command a decent salary now.. but I could see him wanting to come back because he spoke highly of being here. Would be interesting if BB turned him into a passing back if James White didn't come back along with playing WR¬†
  • Rashaan Evans¬†
    • I liked him coming out of college but he seemed to drop off the map.. could be a reclamation project for cheap
  • Ryan Kerrigan¬†
    • Good Veteran to have on the team.. maybe a little left in the tank¬†
  • Mike Gesiki¬†
    • Guys really not a TE .. he seems to be in the slot more than anything else.. can't block.. would be funny to see BB sign him to be the slot guy .. id imagine Miami will resign him though
  • Christian Kirk
    • quick guy, I'd imagine Arizona will resign him but he is a slot option¬†
  • Jason McCourty
    • If Devin is back.. possible they do one last run with the twins.. especially if they draft a couple young DB's.. they could bring him back to basically be a mentor and emergency option¬†
  • Nate Ebner
    • If Slater retires, could totally see BB bringing Ebner back
  • Adam Humphries
    • I want nothing to do with him.. but BB wanted him a few years ago and I could certainly see him trying to go after him again.. he would basically be a camp body at this point¬†
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33 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

At wide receiver I like the idea of targeting Zay Jones and Mac's former 'Bama teammate Cam Sims on reasonable 2-3 year deals to upgrade from Agholor/Meyers. Olamide Zaccheaus is a RFA with the Falcons that I like a fair amount so definitely someone to watch for if anyone at this position in restricted free agency. Chris Moore of the Texans might be considered a fine #4/5 to bring in if the Patriots basically gut their entire receiver room outside of Bourne this year.

I feel like this is the most likely group to expect one to sign here. In same vein as Chris Moore, I'd like to throw Trent Sherfield in there as well. High character, consistent, hardworking vet with a cache that the Pats wide receiver room could always use especially with a lot of vets set to leave or retire in the next several months.

I'll add another UFA in the same mold as the first guys mentioned here and that is James Washington with the Steelers. Solid contested catch and sideline receiver with a lot of production to his name from Oklahoma State and the Steelers. Can stretch the defense a respectable amount with technique, timing, and excellent coordination despite being less than a 'burner' with speed.

33 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

Calvin Ridley via trade and Braxton Berrios in free agency would pair well with Kendrick Bourne. Berrios is a good kick returner and seemingly an ascending slot receiver who is a former Pats draft pick. Ridley will likely not happen since he is under contract and acquiring him is going to require the Patriots to be very competitive with what they offer. Ridley isn't out of the question but the likelihood is less than one of these other unrestricted free agents that don't drain the Pats as much of money or players. If there is any other 'splash' receiver to expect the Pats pursue it should be none other than Christian Kirk. Great game-breaking speed and niftiness in the slot to be a difference maker at a relatively very fair cost. I think Kirk, if not franchised by the Cardinals, will likely be the biggest target of the Patriots this offseason in terms of name, contract, and skill.

This group represents perhaps the least likeliest to yield a player who actually ends up on the team. Davonte Adams and Odell Beckham Jr. fit into this category as well as the last list from this post...

36 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

Isaiah McKenzie with the Bills is a good option but probably would require an overpay within the division on the inferior Patriots. A more feasible bet to join the Pats on a reasonable deal is a former divisional opponent is Jakeem Grant who profiles similarly to McKenzie as a returner and speedster on offense. A slightly more viable receiver than Grant who is also reliable/smart/explosive/consistent at returning kicks, (like Berrios and McKenzie also), is WFT's Deandre Carter. 

Christian Kirk could probably fit into this group which meant to reflect the more dynamic and special teams oriented receiver free agents.

44 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

Upgrades, but not the best investments due to $$/injury/age, (a la Agholor last year), are:

Russell Gage

Demarcus Robinson

Byron Pringle

Zach Pascal

Allen Lazard

Adam Humphries

DJ Chark

Cedrick Wilson

Albert Wilson

Emmanuel Sanders

TY Hilton

JuJu Smith-Schuster

Mike Williams

Jamison Crowder

AJ Green

Josh Reynolds

DeSean Jackson

Allen Robinson

Chris Godwin

Pretty self-explanatory list but could add others to it like Sammy Watkins, Will Fuller, Michael Gallup, and Keelan Cole.

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42 minutes ago, Apparition said:

Christian Kirk does not have game-breaking speed. He's cut from the same cloth as Bourne. And while it would be nice to have another WR with that overlapping skill set, I would rather send a 2nd rounder to the Falcons for Ridley.

His quickness and speed out of the slot is a huge advantage and at times gamebreaking. Not a true #1 guy but in the Patriots system he would thrive like a prime Wes Welker.

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6 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

His quickness and speed out of the slot is a huge advantage and at times gamebreaking. Not a true #1 guy but in the Patriots system he would thrive like a prime Wes Welker.

Eh. I think Meyers is perfectly fine as a slot guy. I don't think it's worth allocating a lot of extra cap space to the position if you can't significantly improve on what you already have.

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2 minutes ago, Apparition said:

Eh. I think Meyers is perfectly fine as a slot guy. I don't think it's worth allocating a lot of extra cap space to the position if you can't significantly improve on what you already have.

I think you'd be surprised then at how significant an improvement Kirk would be in the slot over Meyers.

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2 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

I think you'd be surprised then at how significant an improvement Kirk would be in the slot over Meyers.

Meyers' biggest issue has been drops and Kirk had twice as many this year as Meyers did. The one big difference between them in terms of production is average depth of target, but that's purely a schematic thing. 

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7 minutes ago, Apparition said:

Meyers' biggest issue has been drops and Kirk had twice as many this year as Meyers did. The one big difference between them in terms of production is average depth of target, but that's purely a schematic thing. 

Nah it isn't just reflective of scheme. It is reflective mainly of the difference in their natural abilities. Kirk is much quick and faster.

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I don't hate Meyers but I don't want him as the primary slot.. I think he could do fine in the slot a bit but being a possession guy I think they can scheme him open on the outside too. Even Scar has come on TV stating that Meyers isn't the guy.. hell he wanted Braxton Berrios over Meyers in the slot

 

My ideal solution is Wan'Dale Robinson in the 2nd/early 3rd round .. he has experience primarily inside but you could use him in the backfield for gadget stuff and a little bit on the outside too. This would allow Meyers and Bourne to still have some time on the inside and force defenses to adjust to a bunch of capable guys going in and out of slot. This is also a reason why I'm actually kind of hopeful that Mayo gets hired somewhere.. that extra 3rd round pick would be helpful this year.. you could package that 3rd to move around the draft board a little bit and grab Robinson while still primarily focusing the draft on defense. Adding one dangerous receiver to this offense would do wonders .. especially with a hopeful year 2 jump from multiple players. 

 

Assuming BB decided to spend his entire draft on defense, I would then be all for throwing bodies at the solution.. signing 2-3 fast guys who havent panned out elsewhere and let them fight it out during camp. What I don't want is to spend big money on a receiver, if they are going to spend money during free agency it should be to resign their own guys and some defensive veteran help 

Edited by Crimmage
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19 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

Nah it isn't just reflective of scheme. It is reflective mainly of the difference in their natural abilities. Kirk is much quick and faster.

Average depth of target is definitely predicated on scheme and usage. Look up the numbers for a guy like Mike Evans for the last two years versus the previous two. He's not any less talented now than he was then, but with Brady he's being targeted in the short and intermediate range much more often than he was when Winston was the QB there.

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